[Reader-list] Bhagat Singh and Terrorism
Radhakrishnan
krishnanrr at rediffmail.com
Wed Sep 17 12:48:04 IST 2008
One is rather amused at the "scholarly" attempts in the production of multiple truths.
Bhagat Singh was branded as a terrorist by the British colonial, alien government and not by the government of an independent nation. Similarly Nelson Mandela was branded as a terrorist by a minority white government in South Africa. Kindly don't drag and demean the contibution of Bhagat Singh by invoking such twisted logic.
Finally thanks to Simran for enlightening folks about LTTE, its ethnic affiliation and non-religious orientation. Defining the LTTE as Hindu terror outfit runs in consonance to popular myth that Tamils worship Ravana - the villian of Ramayan, notwithstanding the fact that it was a battle between a Kshatriya and a Brahmin.
Radhakrishnan
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> 1. [Announcements] green unplugged Festival (Monica Narula)
> 2. Caste and Landlessness in Kerala: Signals from Chengara : KT
> Rammohan (Anivar Aravind)
> 3. Re: Some Points from discussions (Rahul Asthana)
> 4. Re: after yesterday in Delhi (simran chadha)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:48:40 +0530
> From: Monica Narula <monica at sarai.net>
>Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] green unplugged Festival
>To: announcements at sarai.net
>Message-ID: <9B319812-B8E7-42CE-AE39-1E3CCC764B6A at sarai.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>FYI
>---------------------------------------
>
>green unplugged
>Share your vision, your spirit, your film.
>Reach audiences across borders with your voice, your consciousness.
>
>ABOUT FESTIVAL :
>
>Culture Unplugged Studios will be launching 'Green Unplugged' - the
>festival where we unite to share our voices, not only as film-makers
>but culture-makers. The festival will facilitate contemplation,
>connection & celebration of life, culture & nature through cinema. We
>invite your green & socially conscious films that bring to light
>nature's demand to wake us to our future - an integrated individual
>and the human society. Share stories that reveal where we come from,
>our collective journey leading to our present and contemplating the
>path beyond.
>
>With this, Culture Unplugged wishes to create a global community of
>conscious creatives and their audiences, to reflect on issues and
>life experiences in contemporary world â creatives/storytellers
>wishing to express and exchange primarily through language of film
>(visual/aural communication), framing the spirit in motion.
>
>
>FESTIVAL DATE : 2008-2009
>
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>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--------------------------
>Last date for receiving of the film 1st week of Novemeber, 2008
>
>If you participate in the festival, you will be contacted shortly
>prior to the launch of this festival. Post festival, we will be
>launching a permanent venue with the film archive with intention to
>promote transformative films and its film-makers on global level.
>With this venue we intend to create an open & transparent system for
>film-makers and facilitate dialogue among them, their audiences and
>other professionals to fertilize social consciousness.
>
>For participation kindly fill the online form and send us the film/
>DVD . Multiple entries are welcome. Fill the individual form for each
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>To submit the form, please visit: www.cultureunplugged.com/submit/
>call.html
>
>Monica Narula
>Raqs
>Sarai-CSDS
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>Delhi 110 054
>www.raqsmediacollective.net
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
>announcements mailing list
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:47:43 +0530
> From: "Anivar Aravind" <anivar.aravind at gmail.com>
>Subject: [Reader-list] Caste and Landlessness in Kerala: Signals from
> Chengara : KT Rammohan
>To: Greenyouth <greenyouth at googlegroups.com>, "Reader List"
> <reader-list at sarai.net>
>Message-ID:
> <35f96d470809162217n5910bb3bxc91e89c54440140b at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> >From current EPW issue
>
>Caste and Landlessness in Kerala: Signals from Chengara
> K T Rammohan
>
>The persistence of colonial patterns of ownership of plantations in
>Kerala remains one of the enduring weaknesses of the land reforms
>programme of the 1970s in the state. The case of Chengara's landless
>dalits underlines the necessity to address the issue of land reforms
>once again.
>Read the full article
>http://www.epw.in/uploads/articles/12642.pdf
>
>Anivar
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:21:16 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
>To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>, Vivek
> Narayanan <vivek at sarai.net>
>Message-ID: <792548.85529.qm at web53602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>How about a Hong Kong like solution,with autonomy in all areas except defense and foreign affairs? IK can stay with India and PK with Pak,for the purpose of defense and foreign affairs.IK and PK can have a fluid border with each other,but India and Pak can apply their immigration policy on the border of Kashmir with the rest of the country.The situation can be reviewed by India , Pak and Kashmir after 5 years.
>
>--- On Tue, 9/16/08, Vivek Narayanan <vivek at sarai.net> wrote:
>
> > From: Vivek Narayanan <vivek at sarai.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Some Points from discussions
> > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 7:55 PM
> > I did not say you wrote that Kshmendra, I said that I was
> > given to
> > understand it that way from what you were saying. Hence,
> > the question
> > mark in my note below. Perhaps you are being a little too
> > intelligently
> > vague. In any case, if you do think there are possibilities
> > here beyond
> > the nation state, including beyond occupation by and
> > assertion and
> > domination of the Indian nation state, I'd be very glad
> > to hear of them.
> >
> > Kshmendra Kaul wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Vivek
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Either I did not know what I was writing or you chose
> > not understand.
> > > Either way that is unfortunate. You would not want
> > that happening with
> > > you. Would you?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Where in this particular thread have I mentioned or
> > suggested that :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > """" any possible
> > "post-national" solution to the question of
> > Kashmir
> > > is hogwash,
> > > dreamy, silly,
> > unthinkable"""""
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Once you answer that, I could (perhaps tomorrow)
> > address rest of what
> > > you have written.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kshmendra
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to
> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject
> > header.
> > To unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive:
> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:15:07 +0530 (IST)
> From: simran chadha <getsim2222 at yahoo.co.in>
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
>To: Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>
>Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
>Message-ID: <533939.66567.qm at web8705.mail.in.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>Hey Partha and Kshmendra!
>Â
>was just curious as to how you called the LTTE a Hindu organisation and later ofcourse corrected it by referred to the strong christian elements. Sorry, but religion has never played a determining role in the LTTE and certainly not Hinduism. The Kovils may have been used as hiding places, incidentally, or even for visting on festive occasions or distribution of prasad - its a guerilla warfare after all so the terraine is as much a part of the mise-en-scene; but never never was religion co-mingled with the carrying out of a terrorist act. Rather the complete absence of God and religion is what makes the LTTE so different from any other terrorist outfit, in south asia or japan or ireland. Check out their marching song! or the matyrs day celebration - no recourse to any higher form of authority than the human.
>yes, charles anthony - prabhakaran's son, who heads the LTTE airforce bears a christian name but no belssing of any saint are sort before or after.
>my question still remains and i would be glad to be informed, where did u get the religious connection from - the manifesto, the documents by the Balasingham's where?
>simran
>
>--- On Tue, 16/9/08, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
>To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
>Cc: Date: Tuesday, 16 September, 2008, 6:25 PM
>
>Dear Kshmendra,
>The questions you have asked about 'what is terror', etc is something I
>would not like to elaborate on as each has his/her own interpretation.
>
>Bhagat Singh is a freedom fighter as far as we Indians are concerned, but
>for the govt of the day he was a terrorist. There is no 'standard'
>definition of what a terrorist is and each person / entity would translate
>the word in their own way.
>
>As for defining LTTE as Hindu terrorists - guess that question is wide open
>depending upon what we use as the pointer. If the primary factor is what
>religion / group do they belong to, then we'd have a ready answer.
>
>If, however, we look beyond and try to identify the aim / purpose behind the
>conflict, there'd be another answer all together - some of them not very
>clear.
>
>Even if a 'terrorist' follows a ideology/religion/place/societal group
>-
>that's a personal root that s/he has. It does not follow that all people of
>the ideology/religion/place/societal group follow the same radical
>conclusion.
>
>Guess we could go on and on - fact is that we'll all equate the phrase
>'terrorist' from our personal point of view and experiences.
>
>Apologies for sounding vague, but you started a line of thought that I'd
>never really looked at before.
>
>Rgds, Partha
>.................................
>
>On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
><kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > Dear Partha
> >
> > My questioning of the LTTE being called Hindu was to help me in my
> > discussions with my own self.
> >
> > I am still struggling in my mind over 'what is terror'; 'who
>is a
> > terrorist'; 'when should an organisation (or a system) be called a
>terrorist
> > one' and 'when should an act of terror, or a terrorist, or a
>terrorist
> > organisation be identified with an ideology/religion/place/societal
>group'.
> >
> > There is total agreement with your words:
> >
> > """""" The terrorist may belong to any
>religion or caste or place or
> > whatever - however, lumping all the people of that religion or caste or
> > place as terrorists because one or some people from that group performed
> > 'acts of terrorism' is not
>justifiable."""""""
> >
> > Kshmendra
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On *Tue, 9/16/08, Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>* wrote:
> >
> > From: Partha Dasgupta <parthaekka at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
> > To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
> > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> > Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 9:37 AM
> >
> >
> > Dear Kshmendra,
> > Studied in Baroda / Vadodra and saw communal rights flare up on
> > the weirdest of reasons. Have seen a close friend who wouldn't kill
> > cockroaches try to burn a bus in the frenzy of a mob.
> >
> > As for defining the LTTE as Hindu - my point is different, and is
>something
> > I have mentioned earlier. The terrorist may belong to any religion or
>caste
> > or place or whatever - however, lumping all the people of that religion or
> > caste or place as terrorists because one or some people from that group
> > performed 'acts of terrorism' is not justifiable.
> >
> > In short, am against the mass generalization wherein we identify an entire
> > group a 'terrorists'.
> >
> > To put it the other way around, am a Hindu, but do not identify with the
> > demolition of the Babri Masjid or the attacks on Christians that is
> > happening. Just a personal belief, but if any person is converting to
> > another faith for benefits accrued then obviously his faith wasn't
>strong in
> > the first place & s/he won't be much of a loss.
> >
> > Rgds, Partha
> > .......................................
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Kshmendra Kaul
><kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Partha
> >>
> >> Do not mean to butt in.
> >>
> >> Just wondering whether any 'acts of terrorrising' by the LTTE
>can be
> >> designated as 'acts of terrorising' by Hindus.
> >>
> >> Would it not be more apt to link 'acts of terror' with a
>religious
> >> identity when such 'acts of terror' are carried out in the
>name a particular
> >> religion or are solely based on the religious identity?
> >>
> >> There are many instances of 'acts of terror by Hindus' which
>can be so
> >> designated because they are carried out in the name of Hinduism or are
> >> solely based upon and connected to the Hindu identity of the
>perpetrators.
> >>
> >> Just wondering.
> >>
> >> Kshmendra
> >>
> >> --- On Sun, 9/14/08, Partha Dasgupta <
> >> partha.dasgupta at eliteinfomachine.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Partha Dasgupta <partha.dasgupta at eliteinfomachine.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
> >> To: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
> >> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> >> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 4:28 PM
> >>
> >> Dear Radhika Rajen,
> >>
> >> In may mails on this list you have pointed out how the elected
> >> representative is only a beneficiary divided caste votes and not a
>true
> >> representative.
> >>
> >> Now you jump to another point altogether and talk about the UPA
> >> chairperson
> >> and the eloctorate.
> >>
> >> Please stick to a viewpoint as it is hard to trace what your
>viewpoint
> >> is.
> >> If you have changed your viewpoint, then please denote so.
> >>
> >> In any case, saw the killings (directly and first hand in Delhi)
>during
> >> the
> >> Sikh militancy days and have seen communal riots in Baroda, Gujarat;
>and
> >> all
> >> I can say is that when herd mentality takes over the common sense is
>lost.
> >>
> >> Also, from Babri Masjid to the incapable idiots who got blown up some
>time
> >> back, we have seen Hindu militancy.
> >>
> >> Either we can agree that militancy in all forms is wrong or we can
>quibble
> >> about shades of right or wrong.
> >>
> >> So, where do you stand:
> >>
> >> a) Militancy & armed conflict is wrong
> >>
> >> OR
> >>
> >> b) Hindu's are allowed to have a conflict as they have been
>repressed as
> >> a
> >> majority
> >> and that cases like Godhra, Sikh killings in Delhi and Babri
>Masjid
> >> are justified.
> >>
> >> Rgds, Partha
> >>
> >> PS: I do note that when you talk of terror, you never refer to the
>LTTE
> >> (Hindu & Indian) which is considered as one of the most dangerous
> >> terrorist
> >> organisations and has killed a Prime Minister of India (and is not
>Muslim
> >> or
> >> Christian) or the killing of Indira Gandi - or is it that since they
>were
> >> not BJP/RSS that you do not consider them a loss?
> >> .....................................................
> >>
> >> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 4:05 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Without getting in to blame games, the need of the moment is the
> >> > chairperson of UPA who is now proxy governor of the nation should
>have
> >> good
> >> > introspection of the events and see if her Home Minister who was
>once
> >> > speaker, but discarded by the electorate, got into rajya sabha by
> >> nomination
> >> > and then is the Home minister, is he capable of any action. A
>dummy
> >> like
> >> > Prime minister, again diitto to the governance who has no
>incentive to
> >> > perform as Prime minister being discard beaucrat, has been of
>yester
> >> years,
> >> > can not make up his mind to take tough action for fear of
>votebank
> >> getting
> >> > "hurt". By this inaction, in actual practise muslims
>are getting
> >> branded as
> >> > terrorists for the simple reason, they are not willing to be
>ready to
> >> > identify, isolate and give up those who indulge in terror
>activities. It
> >> is
> >> > sad scene indeed. Wheras the hindus do not want violence and
>bhajrang
> >> dal
> >> > gets no sympathy for its acts of violence, muslims by floating
>NGOs to
> >> > defend the accused are helping the ter
> >> > ror accused, sheltoring the accused for plain and simple lots of
>money
> >> in
> >> > the trade of defending the terror.
> >> >
> >> > regards.
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Priya Sen <senpriya at gmail.com>
> >> > Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:18 pm
> >> > Subject: [Reader-list] after yesterday in Delhi
> >> > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> >> >
> >> > > Dear All,
> >> > >
> >> > > India Gate, September 13th, 6:20 or so in the evening. I had
> >> > > decided to walk
> >> > > from Triveni Academy towards Khan Market, determined to buy
>a
> >> > > bicycle and
> >> > > thinking, it's getting dark and maybe I should wait
>until Monday
> >> > > and I
> >> > > shouldn't tell my mother about my biking plans and even
>though I
> >> > > plan to
> >> > > ride early mornings I need to ride it back home now and so
>on and
> >> > > so forth.
> >> > > India Gate was as India Gate is on a weekend evening.
>Walking
> >> > > through it
> >> > > made me think of other times I had been there, a few
>specific
> >> > > memories and a
> >> > > general sense of being in Delhi - of familiarity and ease
> from
> >> > > having been
> >> > > here for as long as I have, and of curiousity, the kind that
>comes
> >> > > fromknowing that places are never the same - making mental
>notes
> >> > > for no one
> >> > > really about the Kwality Walls ice cream cart that had a
>board
> >> > > saying 'Old
> >> > > Vendor, India Gate since 1956', and the astrologer who
>sits in
> >> the
> >> > > sameplace always, and people with video cameras filming the
>gate
> >> > > who always make
> >> > > me wonder at what they think when they play it back later.
>It
> >> > > took 15
> >> > > minutes to cross over to Shah Jahan Road. Me, a couple of
>young
> >> > > men, and a
> >> > > papad seller who the policeman who was also waiting for the
>lights to
> >> > > change, generally swore at, and I laughed at how swearing is
>so
> >> > > integral to
> >> > > ones day in Delhi.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Later I heard there were a couple of bombs that were
>defused, one
> >> > > at Regal
> >> > > Cinema and one at India Gate. I realized how many stories
>there
> >> > > are now. Of
> >> > > yesterday. Of where we were when.. . Of places we know so
>well. Of
> >> > > our lives
> >> > > up until the moment life changed for so many people in our
>city.
> >> > > Of the
> >> > > things that make our days what they are and will continue
>to.
> >> > > Everyone will
> >> > > have a story because everyone needs to claim something from
> >> > > moments like
> >> > > these. And everyone (in this city) must because this moment
>was
> >> > > about Delhi.
> >> > > It's happened before. Here, in other places, it will
>happen again
> >> > > and again
> >> > > and these will be 'the times according to people who
>live in
> >> these
> >> > > times'.And all we can really do is to embrace our lives
>a little
> >> > > harder.
> >> > >
> >> > > The last time I mourned for this city, a little like this,
>is when
> >> > > I watched
> >> > > Nanglamachi being demolished and people gathering their
>lives into
> >> > > bundlesand tempos and going wherever. The ruthlessness was
> >> > > overwhelming. Not to
> >> > > make analogies here. Although nothing wrong with analogies
>and
> >> > > other things
> >> > > that make us feel what we feel. No rules for that! Think,
>feel
> >> > > whatever -
> >> > > it's all part of the way we make sense of things on day
>2. It was
> >> like
> >> > > watching the news right after the blasts happened, when the
> >> > > reporters were
> >> > > as bewildered as everyone else. Somehow in their floundering
>the news
> >> > > channels were credible for a moment. Before the information
> >> > > started coming
> >> > > in and before they started interpreting it, that is. We know
>what
> >> > > they do
> >> > > and do well. Nothing is surprising, just a bit defeating and
>then
> >> > > you think
> >> > > why. Maybe we're defeated by the way we think, are told
>to think,
> >> > > don'tthink. Maybe sometimes it has nothing to do with
>how we
> >> live.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Delhi feels quiet today, but that's also from where I
>am. Also
> >> > > it's Sunday.
> >> > > It will probably not seem very different when I go out later
>in the
> >> > > afternoon. But my sister called me this morning and was in
>tears
> >> > > and saying
> >> > > she couldn't sleep because of all this and is feeling
>restless
> >> > > because lakhs
> >> > > of people are going to be out on the streets today for
>Ganapati
> >> > > visarjan in
> >> > > Bombay. For her it's about Bombay as well, the place
>where she
> >> has
> >> > > her life.
> >> > > When public places become vulnerable it means having to make
> >> > > decisions about
> >> > > things one doesn't necessarily think about. It's
>about
> >> everything
> >> > > outside of
> >> > > us that is essential to how we construct our lives. It's
>about
> >> > > everydaydecisions, small things, immediate concerns. About
>being
> >> > > able to imagine,
> >> > > and dream and lose ourselves in places. For a few days we
>will be
> >> > > excruciatingly aware of how we move around the city. There
>will be
> >> > > remorseand anxiety and conversation. We will share a common
>grief,
> >> > > in degrees, and
> >> > > it will bring us together more intensely. We will count and
>blame and
> >> > > speculate. And then we will thankfully, move on.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Right now though, I would rather not. Not for today. I just
>want
> >> > > to be with
> >> > > what this city means to me. Aside from its symbols, its
>creation
> >> > > of itself,
> >> > > its skewed power dynamics and unbearable inequalities. A
>friend
> >> > > and I are
> >> > > convinced that "Delhi steps in when we really need
>something
> >> to.".
> >> > > Like the
> >> > > wisdom of places. Not to get melodramatic! I'm glad I
>was here
> >> > > when this
> >> > > happened and not somewhere else.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards,
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Priya
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Priya Sen
> >> > > Sarai-CSDS
> >> > > 29, Rajpur Road, Civil Lines
> >> > > Delhi - 110054
> >> > > priya at sarai.net
> >> > > _________________________________________
> >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
>with
> >> > > subscribe in the subject header.
> >> > > To unsubscribe:
>https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
> >> > > list
> >> > > List archive:
><https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________
> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> > subscribe in the subject header.
> >> > To unsubscribe:
>https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> > List archive:
><https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Partha Dasgupta
> >> +919811047132
> >> _________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Partha Dasgupta
> > +919811047132
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>Partha Dasgupta
>+919811047132
>_________________________________________
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>Critiques & Collaborations
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>End of reader-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 101
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