[Reader-list] FW: FOURTH ESTATE CRITIQUE Fwd: Some Questions About The Delhi Encounter

Sun Sep 21 21:40:41 IST 2008

Yousaf,
If the police had as much accurate information, i dont think any sane
policemen would have gone without a bullet proof jacket.

Let us for once do not doubt our police, who have anyway scarified one of
the best officers.

Pawan

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Aditya Raj Kaul
> Thank you for your answer. In all my previous mails, I have only been
> raising doubts, but from the language of your mail, you seem to know the
> truth.
>
> Look, I am not thundering my fingers on the keyboard sitting in an
> armchair. If you have seen my mails, I live 100 meters from the incident
> site, and been experiencing the entire drama first hand. For past 3 days, we
> have been walking in the area, talking to the people and try to dig the
> truth. There are many people on this list who are familiar with the area and
> are keen to know the specifics, which we are discussing. The matter is not
> as simple as you think it is. The two sides of the story (the police version
> and the people's version) – both are weak – both have their loopholes. But
> the media only reports the state version and ignores the public – while both
> are unable to provide the evidence required. Do you think it is wrong to
> question a claim, which is presented to you without evidence?
>
> Yousuf
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FOURTH ESTATE CRITIQUE Fwd: Some Questions
> About The Delhi Encounter
> > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 8:18 PM
> > Yousuf bhai,
> >
> > I suggest you volunteer to join the Special Cell of the
> > Delhi Police as an
> > encounter advisor. It would certainly help you answer all
> > your questions.
> >
> > Its easy to scream here that 'why' this wasn't
> > done,  'what' went wrong
> > there, and 'who' was responsible for this. Try and
> > think from the
> > perspective of the Police as well.
> >
> > They just had some leads about this place; and had planned
> > a secret raid.
> > God knows how you say that the entire world knew about it.
> > Of course very
> > senior print and electronic crime reporters keep a track of
> > things; and some
> > of them are given information whenever possible by their
> > sources in the
> > Police. I don't think there is anything so secretive or
> > unusual in this.
> >
> > Just because this encounter took place in Batla House,
> > Jamia Nagar a densely
> > Muslim dominated area; we shouldn't and have no right
> > to caste doubts on our
> > brave soldiers of the Delhi Police and especially its
> > "Special cell; which
> > successfully led this operation. Lets accept the fact that;
> > major Terror
> > related incidents are unfortunately conducted, operated,
> > planned, and
> > executed by Muslims. Here, don't think that I'm
> > targetting a particular
> > community. Its plain truth.
> >
> > My head goes high, when I think of our brave Inspector M.C.
> > Sharma. I had
> > heard of him before as well by chance. His technique of
> > investigation and
> > purity of professionalism were extraordinary. I salute this
> > symbol of PEACE
> > who could eliminate those who killed innocents in the
> > recent bombings.
> >
> > Its so disheartening to see a few "Encounter
> > Specialists" on this Sarai
> > Reader's List who are trying their best to target the
> > Police and the state
> > for this encounter; with lame arguments. Its funny but at
> > the same time very
> > unfortunate. 'Think' for a change guys.
> >
> > I travel to Jamia almost daily for past year or so because
> > of my good
> > friendship base in the University. Even these days after
> > and before the
> > bombings I've gone their and interacted with people.
> > The people in the
> > locality and neighbouring areas are as free, secure and as
> > normal as any
> > other person living in any other locality of Delhi. But,
> > its tragic that
> > places like Jamia Nagar, Zakir Nagar, Okhla, Shaheen Bagh,
> > Seelampur etc.
> > are on and off used as base of a larger terror networks in
> > the country. Its
> > time the local population in these areas formulates a plan
> > along with Police
> > and administration to nab these anti-national and
> > anti-state elements and
> > also the locals should come out openly against Islamic
> > Terrorism.
> >
> > It isn't easy to raid such a populated and crowded area
> > as Jamia Nagar.
> > Police has to take care that there are no civilian
> > casualties. So, even a
> > ordinary person can understand that what the Police did on
> > this particular
> > day was the best possible methodology used. Till the time
> > they would have
> > tried to block the area and rounded up, the terrorists
> > might have escaped.
> > I'm happy that there was no major blood-shed and it
> > ended up well. Though
> > I'm sad about the great loss we all in India faced.
> >
> > A meritorious officer of the Delhi Police knows how to
> > tackle things during
> > an encounter better then a writer or a painter. The entire
> > encounter wasn't
> > planned in anyway. It happened just because, the terrorists
> > fired upon the
> > Police force; who were in plain clothes. Hope this makes
> > things clear. Also,
> > he was brave and was martyred fighting terrorists. Do you
> > understand that ?
> > It wasn't easy as you may want to believe sitting on a
> > comfortable chair
> > while thundering your fingers on the keyboard.
> >
> > Hope all your questions, rather allegations are answered.
> >
> > May the departed soul rest in Peace.
> >
> > Aum Shaanti Shaanti, Shaanti !
> >
> > Aditya Raj Kaul
> >
> > On 9/21/08, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Aarti
> > > Here are a few points to add (from someone who lives
> > there):
> > >
> > > Media started coming in only around 11:20 or so when
> > appearantly Inspector
> > > Sharma was already injured and taken away. No TV crew
> > saw him being taken,
> > > but someone took a still photo with a mobile which has
> > appeared in today's
> > > Hindustan Times, where you can see that he may have
> > come down the four
> > > floors not on a stretcher.
> > >
> > > A reporter on "Times NOW" channel reported
> > at around 11:30 am that day (you
> > > can see the video on TOI site) that "he was in
> > touch with the investigating
> > > officer in the morning who told (the reporter) that
> > they are going for a
> > > raid in Zakir Nagar, and that's how Times NOW was
> > the first crew to arrive
> > > here." Now one cannot understand how can you have
> > a secret raid looking for
> > > terrorists, and inform the whole world about it.
> > >
> > > Another important point: Inspector Sharma is an
> > encounter specialist who
> > > according to TOI: "during his meritorious
> > service, Sharma was instrumental
> > > in the killing of 35 terrorists and the arrest of
> > another 80 militants. He
> > > had killed at least 40 inter-state gangsters and
> > arrested another 129". He
> > > has also won over a hundred gallantry medals.
> > >
> > > My mind boggles to think, how can such a meritorious
> > officer walk into a
> > > flat (assuming there were terrorists in it) not
> > wearing a bullet proof vest,
> > > and get fatally shot so easily. This is just
> > unbelievable, considering his
> > > background.
> > >
> > > Many locals are saying that even if there were
> > terrorists with guns inside
> > > - why couldn't the police block the area (which
> > they did ultimately), take
> > > the local people into confidence, empty the rest of
> > the building and
> > > neighborhood, and get the folks to surrender. After
> > all it was a fourth
> > > floor and very easy to ambush without any bloodshed.
> > >
> > > I wonder if these questions will be answered by
> > anyone.
> > >
> > > Yousuf
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Aarti Sethi
> > <aarti.sethi at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FOURTH ESTATE
> > CRITIQUE Fwd: Some Questions
> > > About The Delhi Encounter
> > > > To: "sabitha t p"
> > <sabitha_tp at yahoo.co.uk>
> > > > Cc: "sarai readerlist"
> > <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 3:39 PM
> > > > Thank you for posting this Sabitha.
> > > >
> > > > I have some more questions to add:
> > > >
> > > > :From all reports and accounts it appears that
> > the media
> > > > was tipped off well
> > > > in advance of this operation. So much so that
> > cables were
> > > > laid on the ground
> > > > to ensure clear transmission. How is it that the
> > > > "dreaded terrorists" holed
> > > > up in this flat did not get tipped off by this
> > operation in
> > > > the vicinity and
> > > > flee then, and indeed waited to leave till after
> > the
> > > > operation had begun? It
> > > > seems very strange that they would wait in this
> > flat, while
> > > > the media
> > > > gathered, the police arrived, and then run from a
> > house in
> > > > which there is
> > > > only one stair which had been taken over by the
> > police.
> > > >
> > > > : A report in the Indian Express quotes JC Singh
> > as saying
> > > > that, "Inspector
> > > > Sharma had the input but not the specifically of
> > the right
> > > > address - there
> > > > was some confusion about the house in which the
> > militants
> > > > were holed up."
> > > > Which means that the media was called and arrived
> > in Jamia
> > > > Nagar while the
> > > > police wandered about looking for the right
> > house? And
> > > > again the
> > > > "terrorists" waited while this was
> > going on, 10
> > > > OB vans in the vicnity did
> > > > not tip them off?
> > > >
> > > > : The Indian Express also carries an article
> > which quotes
> > > > an unnamed police
> > > > source describing the incident as "a suprise
> > attack by
> > > > the militants." To
> > > > thwart such surprise attacks the police have been
> > askedto
> > > > carry their
> > > > weapons with them at all times. How is an
> > incident planned
> > > > by the police, to
> > > > which the media has been invited beforehand, a
> > > > "surprise attack"?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:47 PM, sabitha t p
> > > > <sabitha_tp at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > --- On Sun, 21/9/08, satchidanandan k
> > > > <satchida at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > From: bobby.kunhu at gmail.com
> > > > > To: fourth-estate-critique at googlegroups.com;
> > > > > grassroots-in-action at googlegroups.com
> > > > > Subject: FOURTH ESTATE CRITIQUE Fwd: Some
> > Questions
> > > > About The Delhi
> > > > > Encounter
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > From: Ajay <ajaydalit at gmail.com>
> > > > > Date: 2008/9/21
> > > > > Subject: Some Questions About The Delhi
> > Encounter
> > > > >
> > > > > Some Questions About The Delhi Encounter
> > > > > By Shabnam Hashmi, Satya Sivaraman, Manisha
> > Sethi,
> > > > Tanweer Fazal, Arshad
> > > > > Alam & Pallavi Deka
> > > > > 21 September, 2008
> > > > > Countercurrents.org
> > > > >
> > > > > A team comprising activists, academicians
> > and
> > > > journalists visited the site
> > > > > of the police operation against alleged
> > terrorists
> > > > staying in an apartment
> > > > > in Jamia Nagar in the afternoon of
> > 20.09.2008
> > > > (Saturday). Two alleged
> > > > > terrorists Atif and Sajid, along with Mohan
> > Chand
> > > > Sharma, an inspector of
> > > > > the Delhi Police's Special Cell died in
> > the
> > > > operation while a third alleged
> > > > > terrorist was arrested.
> > > > >
> > > > > On the basis of our interactions with the
> > local
> > > > residents, eye witnesses
> > > > > and the reports which have appeared in the
> > media, we
> > > > would like to pose the
> > > > > following questions:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) It has been widely reported (and not
> > refuted by the
> > > > Police) that in
> > > > > early August this year Atif, who is
> > described by the
> > > > Delhi Police as the
> > > > > mastermind behind the recent terrorist
> > bombings in
> > > > Jaipur, Ahmedabad and
> > > > > Delhi, underwent a police verification
> > exercise along
> > > > with his four
> > > > > roommates in order to rent the apartment
> > they were
> > > > staying in Jamia Nagar.
> > > > > All the five youth living in the apartment
> > submitted
> > > > to the Delhi police
> > > > > their personal details, including permanent
> > address,
> > > > driving license
> > > > > details, address of the house they
> > previously stayed
> > > > in, all of which were
> > > > > found to be accurate.
> > > > > Is it conceivable that the alleged kingpin
> > behind the
> > > > terrorist Indian
> > > > > Mujahideen outfit would have wanted to
> > undergo a
> > > > police verification- for
> > > > > whatever purpose- just a week after the
> > Ahmedabad
> > > > blasts and a month before
> > > > > the bombings in Delhi?
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) The four-storeyed house L-18 in Jamia
> > Nagar, where
> > > > the alleged
> > > > > terrorists were staying, has only one access
> > point,
> > > > through the stair case,
> > > > > which is covered by an iron grill. It is
> > impossible to
> > > > leave the house
> > > > > except from the staircase. By all reports,
> > the
> > > > staircase was taken over by
> > > > > the Special Cell and/ or other agencies
> > during the
> > > > counter-terror operation.
> > > > > The house, indeed the entire block, was
> > cordoned off
> > > > at the time of the
> > > > > operation.
> > > > > How then was it then possible, as claimed by
> > the
> > > > police, for two alleged
> > > > > terrorists to escape the premises during the
> > police
> > > > operation?
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) The media has quoted 'police
> > sources' as
> > > > having informed them that the
> > > > > Special Cell was fully aware about the
> > presence of
> > > > dreaded terrorists,
> > > > > involved in the bombings in Jaipur,
> > Ahmedabad and
> > > > Delhi, staying in the
> > > > > apartment that was raided.
> > > > > Why was the late Inspector Mohan Chand
> > Sharma, a
> > > > veteran of dozens of
> > > > > encounter operations, the only officer in
> > the
> > > > operation not wearing a bullet
> > > > > proof vest? Was this due to over-confidence
> > or is
> > > > there something else to
> > > > > his mysterious death during the operation?
> > Will the
> > > > forensic report of the
> > > > > bullets that killed Inspector Sharma be made
> > public?
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) There are reports that towards the end of
> > the
> > > > counter-terror operation,
> > > > > some policemen climbed on the roof of L-18
> > and fired
> > > > several rounds in the
> > > > > air. Other policemen were seen breaking
> > windows and
> > > > even throwing flower
> > > > > pots to the ground from flats adjacent or
> > opposite to
> > > > L-18
> > > > > Why was the police firing in the air and why
> > did it
> > > > indulge in destruction
> > > > > of property around L-18 after the encounter?
> > > > >
> > > > > 5) The police officials claim that an AK-47
> > and
> > > > pistols were recovered from
> > > > > L-18.
> > > > > What was the weapon that killed Inspector
> > Sharma? Was
> > > > the AK-47 used at all
> > > > > and by whom? Going by some reports that have
> > appeared
> > > > (see 'Times of India',
> > > > > 20.09.08), the AK-47s have been used by the
> > police
> > > > only. Is it not strange
> > > > > that alleged terrorists did not use a more
> > deadly and
> > > > sophisticated weapon
> > > > > like the AK-47, which they purportedly
> > possessed,
> > > > preferring to use pistols?
> > > > >
> > > > > We feel that there are far too many loose
> > ends in the
> > > > current story of the
> > > > > police encounter at L-18 in Jamia Nagar. We
> > demand
> > > > that a fair, impartial
> > > > > and independent probe into the incident be
> > initiated
> > > > at the earliest to
> > > > > answer the above questions as also any other
> > ones that
> > > > arise from the
> > > > > contradictions of the case.
> > > > > Signed/- Shabnam Hashmi, Satya Sivaraman,
> > Manisha
> > > > Sethi, Tanweer Fazal,
> > > > > Arshad Alam, Pallavi Deka
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >      Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT
> > from any
> > > > browser, without
> > > > > download. Go to
> > http://in.webmessenger.yahoo.com/
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