[Reader-list] When cowards run the State, the nation bleeds

[Pawan Durani]

And for me , I am for taking a strong action against all those who use
violence as their means.
Whosoever the organization may be.

To start with let all the people who bought guns to Kashmir from across the
border be tried and bought to Justice.

Pawan



On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta
<shuddha at sarai.net>wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> While I am resolutely against the murderous and fascist political
> agenda of organizations like the Bajrang Dal, I am also against
> banning them. I think all organizations invested in violence, be they
> the Bajrang Dal or SIMI or some of the Maoist militia, benefit from
> the 'glamour' of a ban. Their being driven 'underground' also makes
> it more difficult to confront and combat them politically. Their
> secretive methods are not affected in the least by being banned.
>
> I believe that every such organization needs to be confronted,
> politically, openly, and publicly. Of course, if their members commit
> crimes, then those crimes must be addressed as per the instruments
> laid down under ordinary and existing criminal law.
>
> Many people in the Bajrang Dal would be itching to be 'banned' , it
> will help them, not hinder them. It will make them heroes and martyrs
> overnight, and they will be able to cloak their thuggery in the halo
> of 'underground' chic. Remember whenever  the RSS has been banned, it
> has come out of the ban stronger. So please think before you call for
> bans. It weakens the fight against them,
>
> regards
>
> Shuddha
>
>
> On 21-Sep-08, at 9:28 PM, inder salim wrote:
>
> > Pawan ji
> > i remember, Swami Vivekananda, perhaps, he said it that, he loves to
> > see a  small child going to a temple, stands in playfully in front of
> > the idol, but not when an grown up does the same.
> >
> > you have certainly emotional weakness that stops you and Aditya from
> > demanding an immediate ban for BajrangDal.
> >
> > emotional weakness is still something ,but when the desing to opress
> > the other, it is sinister, that is what it seems in this case
> >
> > Sang Parivar are not different from other fundamental  right wing
> > poltical  outfits in the counrty. it is not even about one simple
> > belief, but about the  killing each other. it is about hate. which i
> > dont understand why? unless you are part of the power strucutre,
> > othewise
> >
> > they use the innsocent beleiver, first to demolish the mosque and then
> > shoot him in cold blood, it is same with the other religons.
> >
> > people need to wake up, this is the simple trap for HIndus to hate
> > muslism. so that BJP comes back to power, and do a Gujrat to stay in
> > power for another five yeears.
> >
> > there is no other way for common masses expcet to restore the common
> > love between each other, and that can happen only when we  undersand
> > the game plans of these poltical outfits.
> >
> > just give me one example where these right wing parties contribute to
> > modern ways of living,  none.
> >
> > they have a dagger in their sleeves and Ram in their mouths
> >
> > i am right now hearing a loud Jagran ( night devotional musical  ) it
> > is so loud, and i know it will go on for 3 in the night,
> > once i humbly asked to lower the volume of it, so that my  old mother
> > can go to sleep,  to my surprise , man with white beard,  told me that
> > dont dare you say it again, we will make you to sell your home from
> > the vicinity, as we did in other colony who dared to challange us.
> >
> > i was taken aback, because i knew they have powe, police officials
> > dont dare to question them, they are simply a huge bully,
> >
> > now this too can be understood, but what about if the same platform is
> > used to deliver hate against the  mulsims.
> > that happened in kashmir as well, when mosques were used to threaten
> > the  pandits in 1990.
> >
> > will you deny all this?
> >
> > with love
> > is
> >
> > Ghalib says, kaya woh minrood ki khudayee theee, bandgee main mara
> > bhalla na huva. (to bow in front of Nimrod,  the fascist king, finally
> > proved futile,   i got nothing ) see  the poet's honesty, let us get
> > inspired by him. there is always  time to see the colour of  fascism
> > and hate that destroys all of us in the end.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Pawan Durani
> > <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are people who say IM too are not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrorists,how to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance it<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >> Inder Ji,
> >> This is not balancing. This is appeasing.
> >> Pawan
> >>
> >> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:54 AM, inder salim
> >> <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear Singh
> >>> Genius is a scanalous audacity of nothing, well said by  JP Sartre
> >>>
> >>> well, who will define the activities of BajrangDal ?  for me they
> >>> are
> >>> terrorists
> >>>
> >>> there are people who say IM too are not terrorists,
> >>> how to balance it
> >>>
> >>> the best is if we commit ourselves to secular values, guaranteed in
> >>> the constitution.
> >>> we can not give latitude to one and accuse the other
> >>>
> >>> that will be counterproductiive
> >>>
> >>> let us see and wathc
> >>> best
> >>> is
> >>> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Prabhakar Singh
> >>> <prabhakardelhi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> Dear Inder,
> >>>>
> >>>> This is where genius intellectuals like you fail when they try to
> >>>> confuse the issue and try to take sides cleverly.Issue is
> >>>> terrorism not
> >>>> secularism.To please you let us ban a small Bajrang Dal first
> >>>> and make all
> >>>> Islamic terrorists operating under different names and banners
> >>>> free to
> >>>> operate anywhere in the name of
> >>>> equality,secularism,minority,backwardness,vote-bank etc. who
> >>>> have shaken the
> >>>> entire world by their activities.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Prabhakar
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>> From: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: reader-list at sarai.net
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, 21 September, 2008 12:25:30 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] When cowards run the State, the
> >>>> nation bleeds
> >>>>
> >>>> dear aditya,
> >>>> just want to know what is your reaction to Paswan's demand to ban
> >>>> Bajrang Dal?
> >>>>
> >>>> i think he should have demanded this a decade earlier,
> >>>> when we demand a ban on Simi we should automatically ban
> >>>> BajrangDal and
> >>>> VHP ?
> >>>>
> >>>> and if not , just tell me why,
> >>>> if the  Govt. fails to ban BajragDal, they are truly cowards,
> >>>>
> >>>> this is to restore some basic components of secularism in india.
> >>>>
> >>>> love
> >>>> is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 12:15 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul
> >>>> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>  When cowards run the State, the nation bleeds
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Tarun Vijay | *September 17, 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/sep/17tarun.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Again the same old stories, the same threats and same resolve of
> >>>>> politicos,
> >>>>> like wet, squeezed paper. We told you so, at that date and
> >>>>> time, but
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> didn't listen. We asked for a stringent law. Our intelligence
> >>>>> department was
> >>>>> warned, yet no one acted.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's a plot to derail the peace process with Pakistan, we shall
> >>>>> never
> >>>>> get
> >>>>> trapped but continue our *mohabbat*. They are not Islamists.
> >>>>> Bad guys
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> no religion, so don't say it's Islamic terrorism. They come from
> >>>>> nowhere.
> >>>>> May be from Mars, but certainly not from Pakistan or Saudi
> >>>>> Arabia. They
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> not our people, not Kashmiris or Delhi-ites.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Don't embarrass Pakistan by pointing fingers at it or at SIMI or
> >>>>> Hurriyat --
> >>>>> we are continuing with our Confidence Building Measures and
> >>>>> such blasts
> >>>>> aim
> >>>>> to disrupt it. Why should we allow that?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Another feature, another magazine: SIMI is an association like the
> >>>>> YMCA,
> >>>>> these communal hate-mongers have connived with the Congress
> >>>>> government
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> implicate them wrongly while they were conducting adult education
> >>>>> classes.
> >>>>> Please see the truth from secular eyes and defeat the anti-
> >>>>> Afzal Guru
> >>>>> crowd.
> >>>>> Maybe the next time we will include Afzal as a minister for
> >>>>> internal
> >>>>> security after having experimented with the Muslim League as a
> >>>>> partner
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> governance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Deoband's concerned maulvis will again issue a statement to be
> >>>>> welcomed
> >>>>> by all peace-loving people. Look, they have again said that their
> >>>>> scriptures
> >>>>> don't recommend this kind of violent jihad and killing innocent
> >>>>> people.
> >>>>> But
> >>>>> no one would ask them how many killers of the jihadi variety have
> >>>>> turned
> >>>>> peaceniks and left their bomb factories after such dictates.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 'Hindu intolerant groups behind such bomb blasts!' -- another
> >>>>> secular
> >>>>> television channel would scream -- because they create an
> >>>>> atmosphere to
> >>>>> malign Muslims and get votes, it's election time folks. These bomb
> >>>>> blasts,
> >>>>> like the Godhra train fire, have been planned by Hindu
> >>>>> chauvinists.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A job well done. We can all go to sleep.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When cowards run the State, the nation bleeds.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A will to eliminate the weeds and face the wrath of malevolent
> >>>>> elements
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> the confidence of a victor is the prerequisite to be a ruler
> >>>>> and, yes,
> >>>>> to be
> >>>>> a citizen. If it's there, you build a nation. If not,
> >>>>> civilisations
> >>>>> vanish.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If citizens encourage and harbour the wicked, forget dates like
> >>>>> December 13
> >>>>> that should be remembered, forget to take revenge on anti-
> >>>>> nationals,
> >>>>> continue with their late-night parties when dead bodies of
> >>>>> their fellow
> >>>>> citizens lie splattered in busy fashion markets, no one can
> >>>>> save that
> >>>>> deadwood society.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Where writers and columnists advocate yielding to the gun-wielding
> >>>>> secessionists because 'they want it', no one can save that
> >>>>> country from
> >>>>> disintegrating as every day new secessionists will emerge.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's useless to blame this party or that organisation. See what
> >>>>> we have
> >>>>> done
> >>>>> and to what level the state of affairs have been brought to.
> >>>>> Everything
> >>>>> boils down to personal wars and wins, and homemade potboilers
> >>>>> rule the
> >>>>> top
> >>>>> echelons of organisations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The nation as a matter of serious planning and vision has simply
> >>>>> vanished
> >>>>> off the agendas of those who are the known faces of our
> >>>>> leadership and
> >>>>> decision-making mechanism of the State.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Personal jealousies, vendettas and *mandi*-isation of the high and
> >>>>> mighty
> >>>>> turn peoples' security into a joke of the ghostland where
> >>>>> signal-jammers and
> >>>>> black cat commandos iconise the Neros and the Republic is left
> >>>>> to fend
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> itself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is our state of affairs today.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any day, any time, anyone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Free Afzal committees. Visits to the Azamgarh home of a terrorist.
> >>>>> Demand
> >>>>> citizenship for Bangladeshi infiltrators. Demand ban on patriotic
> >>>>> organisations. Win the election. That's the final aim of
> >>>>> governance and
> >>>>> our
> >>>>> living. Only the people are to be blamed. It's a democracy. Choose
> >>>>> those who
> >>>>> bring you safety and succour. *If you choose the marauders you
> >>>>> get back
> >>>>> marauders.*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Indian people, as Indians alone, have done it marvellously
> >>>>> before
> >>>>> too
> >>>>> whenever the occasion demanded solidarity and cohesion. Kargil
> >>>>> saw it,
> >>>>> 1965
> >>>>> saw it, 1962 had a great solidarity of the patriots. Always,
> >>>>> it's the
> >>>>> leaders and politicians who have failed the country and
> >>>>> backstabbed the
> >>>>> trust people had reposed in them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peoples' power saw that the culprits behind the Uphaar cinema fire
> >>>>> tragedy
> >>>>> case were brought to book, however influential they may be. It was
> >>>>> because
> >>>>> of their pressure and media build-up that the Nandas were
> >>>>> punished in
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> BMW case. The Right to Information Act is a great instrument
> >>>>> given to
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> people not because politicians wanted it but there was public
> >>>>> pressure
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> have it and finally it was done.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And look how Jammu rose to see the tricolour win against the
> >>>>> Pakistani
> >>>>> flag-
> >>>>> *wallah*s. No one had ever imagined a people can create an upsurge
> >>>>> unknown
> >>>>> in regional history and win too. Great things happen nimble-
> >>>>> footed. The
> >>>>> British never had ay inkling of the 1857 uprising till Mangal
> >>>>> Pandey
> >>>>> shot
> >>>>> the British officer in Barrackpore. Jayaprakash Narayn's too was a
> >>>>> movement
> >>>>> whose expanse and impact no one had anticipated, and so was the
> >>>>> Ram
> >>>>> Janambhoomi movement that changed the contours of the Indian
> >>>>> polity.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If people will, they can.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Indians will have to decide how many more will have to die
> >>>>> before they
> >>>>> feel
> >>>>> compelled to rise in revolt. India needs a rebellion of Indian
> >>>>> people
> >>>>> who
> >>>>> would merge all their other identities under one banner -- the
> >>>>> tricolour.
> >>>>> Forget temples, churches and mosques. The first to protect the
> >>>>> church
> >>>>> should
> >>>>> be a Hindu like the first to protect a swami should be a
> >>>>> Christian.
> >>>>> That's
> >>>>> where the nation gets life.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When the nation is in peril, gods must be discovered in
> >>>>> national unity
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> not within concrete structures. These ugly, nincompoop
> >>>>> politicos need
> >>>>> to be
> >>>>> thrown into the dustbin lock, stock and barrel. The truth is
> >>>>> we, as
> >>>>> Indians,
> >>>>> never paid a price for our independence and honour. When I had
> >>>>> interviewed
> >>>>> Morarji Desai, which turned out to be one of his last, in his
> >>>>> Mumbai
> >>>>> apartment, he said not more than five percent Indians had
> >>>>> participated
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> the independence struggle. The rest were either too lazy to
> >>>>> come out or
> >>>>> had
> >>>>> lined up before the British for *bakshish* and be their officers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Read what Abraham Lincoln did to save America from
> >>>>> disintegration and
> >>>>> his
> >>>>> famous Gettysburg address and also his inaugural one as
> >>>>> president. He
> >>>>> accepted a civil war but refused the demand to divide America.
> >>>>> Nearly
> >>>>> seven
> >>>>> lakh Americans died in that war, but a new sun rose on its
> >>>>> horizon that
> >>>>> inspired millions across the globe with its egalitarian and
> >>>>> democratic
> >>>>> values.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *What sacrifices have we offered to save national integrity and
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> civil
> >>>>> life of our nation?*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Isn't it time to ask this question and rise in rebellion to say
> >>>>> 'no' to
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> bloodbath unitedly?
> >>>>> _________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >
> >
> >
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> >
> > http://indersalim.livejournal.com
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>
> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
> Raqs Media Collective
> shuddha at sarai.net
> www.sarai.net
> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>
>
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