[Reader-list] What Was Written in "Satyadarshini" Pamphlet
radhikarajen at vsnl.net
radhikarajen at vsnl.net
Wed Sep 24 15:14:56 IST 2008
Why should we may I ask with lots of love, Inder. ? Hindu society is for inclusive growth and all thoughts are considered on the merits of thought. More Love.
----- Original Message -----
From: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:33 am
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] What Was Written in "Satyadarshini" Pamphlet
To: reader-list at sarai.net
> Dear Chanchal,
>
> let us ignore, Aditya Raj Kaul, who has clear political ambition to
> talk so lowly regarding issues which are profound and funny at times.
> There are some Kauls who believe Tickoos are low caste in comparison
> to Dhars , Kauls or Razdans... which amuses me to no end. Let us not
> forget that caste system exists in Kashmiri Pandit community, on this
> pretext or that. You know perhaps, but he will himself come out and
> speak, just wait...
>
> But i am talking to you. For me it is always funny to talk about
> religion. Imagine, the first artist who visualized Ganesha. This is
> simple problem of proportion for an artist as and when she/he starts
> to drawi the figure on a surface. The moment you place an Elephant's
> Head on Human body, it looks disproportional and unaesthetic, so the
> pot belly. It amuses me, that how this figure becomes the most sacred
> composition, when there are thousand other surreal images in Hindu
> iconography, It is very normal for Hindu believers to see sexuality
> as part of their belief systems. How can we separate Krishan from his
> Gopis, how can remove surgically a Ligum from Yoni which represents
> Male and Female fertility...
>
> there are one million MF Hussains, much better than HUssains,
> already exiting in Hindu iconography, I dont see there is a need to
> compare that with Judo-Christian-Islamic iconography. That is
> entirely different. In Hinduism , discourse on sexuality can happen
> within the system of beleif, without guilt, which is not the case with
> the later. There has to a Freud, distinctly far away from a synagogue
> or a church to speak on sexuality and its relevance in society.
> Have not Arabs written about sexuality, or done research on chemicals
> and mathematics. Decorative art can come only from such a society.
> And i see amazing decorative art in Islamic iconography, which is not
> only sensual but highly aesthetic at the same time. And what about
> Sufis. Ghazal means to talk to a woman, which clearly indicates that
> there is an endless desire to talk about sexuality. And besides that
> there are most interesting paintings which have happened in different
> ages under different rulers. But if fanatics demolish them or burn
> them, it does not mean that nothing has happened, and nothing is
> happenning in islamic world .
>
> All we need to is to strengthen the moderate voices within Islam, but
> if we keep on comparing this with that in a narrower sense, we will
> get nothing but 'hurt'
>
> Both the ends of world have come out with their own ways of living,
> and that is it.
>
> Here, what surprises me is the fact that Hussain drawing were
> criticzed by Muslims Fundamentalist and Danish cartoon were equally
> criticized by Hindu right wingers.
>
> That is why we need to be careful to see what they both are doing.
> I know some Chruchs indulge in this kind of publication, to tease
> the Hindu mind, but if Hindus see it as a virtue in their system of
> of belief, the Hindu Religion, then it wont nurture hate in their
> hearts. But we listen to a Parveen Tagodia, a would be parveen ,
> here, named as Aditya Raj and even Bal Thakery , And in Mumbai where
> there was no one left to listen to their 'Bakwas', they began to drive
> North Indians our of Maharashtra.
>
>
> love
> is
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 8:48 AM, chanchal malviya
> <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Your metaphors are not objectionable Mr Inder... And Hindus will
> not get
> > angry if it is brought into discussion... Hindus get angry when
> these things
> > are highlighted against them and used to break them from their
> faith..> By the way one question: Why don't your metaphor include
> some stories of
> > Muhammad as well?
> > If you could do this, as we and the whole world already know
> many, your
> > metaphor would sound secular... else it appears that your
> metaphor again is
> > meant to pin-point any other Religion than Islam...
> > Please modify your metaphor and it would be a healthy discussion...
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> > To: reader-list at sarai.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:14:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] What Was Written in "Satyadarshini"
> Pamphlet>
> > thanks pawan ji for forwarding the pamphlet contents....
> >
> > for me these are metaphors, only half educated person will take
> these> details of these characters as real. The illiterate and
> poor Hindus of
> > India are simple believers. People who know how to manipulate
> these> simple folks are concerned with their personal gains, just
> their axe
> > to grind.
> >
> > Metaphors:- for example, Veda Vyasa of Mahabarata was grand father
> > of both warring factions of the final great war. The epic is
> such that
> > if we dont remember who is legitimate and who is illegitimate , the
> > war itself becomes meaningless. So, the moment we realize there is
> > nothing called legitimate or illegitimate we resolve the conflict,
> > which was fought fo good against bad.
> >
> > Hindu epics are in fact full of such fantastic ways of coming to
> life.> Everybody knows. For example Ganesha was created by
> Paravati from the
> > dirt of her own body, even when Lord Shiva, her husband was not
> > around.. But this will never enrage the Hindu mind, because
> Parvati is
> > Shakti and she is fully equipped to bring anything to life on
> her own.
> > It is quite similar to Jesus coming to life from Mary surrounded by
> > domestic animals only, No fuss. But if someone will point out that
> > Rama's father was believer of polygamy, it might look offensive to
> > some of Hindus. It all depends who is saying and who is listening.
> >
> > A prostitute is a woman like any other respectable woman, like an
> > illegitimate child, who is as respectable as any other child.
> >
> > I am conscious about the fact that you will demand to speak
> freely on
> > other religious characters as well, but that might be not be easy
> > because some of the believers blend history and faith too
> intensely.> I see no gain in that, but that becomes a dangerous
> zone to enter,
> > unless one has a deep creative urge to take the bull by horns.
> choice> is yours.
> >
> > Efforts by some fanatic hindus to mix fantasy of the epics with
> > temporality will bear no fruits in the end. India has a deep
> > past...good to feel.
> >
> >
> > with love
> > is
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Shivam Vij शिवम् विज्
> > <mail at shivamvij.com> wrote:
> >> I think it is not enough to merely condemn "both acts" and thus
> equate>> them.
> >>
> >> I think what is required is the rule of law - the writers of this
> >> pamphlet may be charged with the laws against spreading communal
> >> disharmony; indeed someone could have gone to court, arguing
> for a ban
> >> on the public distribution of such pamphlets. The writers and
> >> publishers could have defended the charge or pleaded guilty.
> The court
> >> could have decided the issue according to the law of the land laid
> >> down by the Constitution of India.
> >>
> >> Instead, the "offended" parties chose to take the law in their own
> >> hands, and deserve to be tried in a court of law irrespective
> of what
> >> the provocation was. Whether or not you and I condemn either or
> both>> acts is irrelevant. It is important that the law take its
> own course,
> >> be allowed to take its own course, that those guilty of
> violating the
> >> law be brought to book. It is this process of justice delivery
> that we
> >> must all demand, not just mere issuance of condemnations.
> Bringing the
> >> guilty to book would also send out a message to all kinds of
> fanatics>> that India is not a Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Sikh or
> Buddhist>> country. It is a democratic, secular republic.
> >>
> >> best
> >> shivam
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Pawan Durani
> <pawan.durani at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>> The pamphlet which caused attacks on churches had the
> following contents.
> >>> Personally i condemn both what was written on the pamphlet as
> well as
> >>> attacks on the churches, as that is not what is the answer to
> a nonsense
> >>> in
> >>> a educated society.
> >>> However the people who incited this through distribution of
> pamphlets>>> need
> >>> to be condemned , for being the reason to cause all
> >>> this unpleasant situation
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> ************************************************************************************************************************************************************>>>
> >>> Abuse No. 1: Urvashi – the daughter of Narayana– is a prostitute.
> >>> Vashitha
> >>> is the son of this prostitute. He in turn married his own
> Mother. Such
> >>> a
> >>> degraded person is the Guru of the Hindu God Rama. (page 48)
> >>>
> >>> *buse no. 2: Wh**en Krishna himself is wallowing in darkness
> of hell, how
> >>> can he enlighten others? Since **Krishna** himself is a shady
> >>> character,
> >>> there is a need for us to liberate his misled followers.
> (page 50)*
> >>>
> >>> Abuse no. 3: t was Brahma himself who kidnapped Sita. Since
> Brahma,>>> Vishnu
> >>> and Shiva were themselves the victims of lust, it is a sin to
> consider>>> them
> >>> as Gods. (page 39)
> >>>
> >>> Abuse No. 4: When the Trinity of Hinduism (Brahma, Vishnu and
> Shiva) are
> >>> consumed by lust and anger, how can they liberate others. Their
> >>> projection
> >>> as Gods is nothing but a joke. (page 39).
> >>>
> >>> buse No.5: Vishnu asked Brahma to commit a sin, he
> immediately did so.
> >>> How
> >>> can such a "evil brahma" be a Creator of this Universe? How
> is it
> >>> possible
> >>> for both the sinner and the entity which provoked the sin to
> be gods?
> >>> (page
> >>> 39)
> >>>
> >>> *Abuse No. 6: God, please liberate the sinful people of
> **India** who are
> >>> worshipping False Gods that believe in the pleasures of illicit
> >>> 'Vyabichari' relationships. (Page 39).*
> >>> _________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> National Highway - http://shivamvij.com/
> >> _________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
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