[Reader-list] FW: FOURTH ESTATE CRITIQUE Fwd: Some QuestionsAboutThe Delhi Encounter

[Aarti Sethi]

Dear Shakeb,

We are in complete agreement on this. I actually would like to make a
stronger claim - namely that children are brought up as much through
parental neglect as through parental attention. Neglect is a central and
significant component of parenting. As always Hindi films are spot on about
this. Indeed we can date the increasing consolidation of right-wing Hindu
violence and the rise of the akand parivar hindi cinema. Always good to be
wary about "family values" I always say.

None of this is of course relevant to the discussion here. Indeed Radhika is
demonstrating what happens when the logic of the family is pushed to its
logical and extreme limit. Just as in good phamily ishtyle one is supposed
to rever and care for a rishtedaar over any other ethical considerations we
might have because of bonds of blood, likewise when you imagine the nation
as a good patriarchal family, one must sacrifice all ethical considerations
at it altar.

A good lesson here about keeping our critical faculties alive when it comes
to both - nation and family. Of course feminists have been alerting us to
this for a long time now.

regs
A


On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 8:10 AM, shakeb ahmed <ahmed_shakeb at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Dear Aarti that quote of the African saying - it takes a village to raise a
> child - was very apt and brilliant. We all know how much our larger contexts
> define us, but when moments like Jamia pass suddenly everybody wants to nail
> shrinking private orbits for any so called abberations...the larger X
> community, the less larger Y congested geographical entities, the even less
> larger Z family-of-the-accused (neglect, neglect!), and then the demonic
> individual self at last. It surely is very important to understand what
> happens in a village to understand what to look for in its children....
> Cheers
> Shakeb
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FOURTH ESTATE CRITIQUE Fwd: Some
> QuestionsAboutThe Delhi Encounter
> > To: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
> > Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 1:21 PM
> > Dear Radhika,
> >
> > There is an old African saying which goes "It takes a
> > village to raise a
> > child." Children are not brought up by their parents.
> > Children are brought
> > up by and in the world. I would go so far as to say that
> > whenever society
> > has made the mistake of assuming that a heterosexual
> > monogamous family unit
> > (i.e one mother and one father) is sufficient to raise a
> > child, disaster has
> > inevitably ensued. But that is a larger discussion.
> >
> > I am in no way saying that parents are not significant
> > influences. Of course
> > they are, and especially for the first few years, because
> > of the extreme
> > vulnerability of the human infant, parents are the most
> > important and
> > significant influences. But that changes, as it should, and
> > every generation
> > does and must forge its values for itself. It is wrong to
> > hold children
> > hostage to the values of their parents, and equally wrong
> > to hold parents
> > accountable for the paths their children choose. There is
> > much love and much
> > pain in all this, but the unfairest question to a parent is
> > "Is this how you
> > brought your child up?", because the parent can only
> > say "no". Because they
> > didn't bring them up you see...
> >
> > So I'm afraid I cannot agree with you on this at all.
> > And least of all on
> > your psuedo-aryurvedic food fascism.
> >
> > best
> > Aarti
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 3:46 PM,
> > <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Aarti, thanks for a practical reply to a question
> > of ethics and
> > > morals. Let me take you to  a parable I read in some
> > scripture, later it
> > > came as story also.
> > >
> > >  A son was being tried a court of law for a criminal
> > offence. Judge after
> > > the trial gave death sentence to that son. Mother who
> > was in court wailed,
> > > son asked the judge to permit him to talk to his
> > mother, he was permitted.
> > > When he went near his mother, he bit her ear hard, she
> > started bleeding and
> > > as all were wondering why this action from a son
> > towards his mother, that
> > > son told all in the court. - this is my mother, when I
> > brought a piece of
> > > pencil from the school, this mother did not tell me it
> > was wrong. She
> > > appreciated the theft. Later i stole a chain, she was
> > happy, because we were
> > > poor, it gave us good food for few more days. later i
> > never went to school,
> > > started my criminal life, now, when I fought with my
> > fellow criminals about
> > > sharing the loot, I stabbed him, he died. Even then my
> > mother felt that good
> > > lawyers can help me escape, so some more dacoities and
> > robberies, now as i
> > > face death, if my mother had warned me even once that
> > what I was doing was
> > > wrong, I would
> > > not be in ths position. !
> > >
> > >   As to food habits, the more one eats tamasik food
> > the more is the
> > > interest to be in violence. Any thing in moderation is
> > good for body, mind
> > > and soul. Even nector in access is poison.
> > >
> > >  Regards.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Aarti Sethi <aarti.sethi at gmail.com>
> > > Date: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:46 pm
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] FW: FOURTH ESTATE CRITIQUE
> > Fwd: Some
> > > QuestionsAboutThe Delhi Encounter
> > > To: radhikarajen at vsnl.net
> > > Cc: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>,
> > sarai list <
> > > reader-list at sarai.net>
> > >
> > > > Dear Radhika,
> > > >
> > > > If your son was accused of a terrorist attack
> > which killed 23
> > > > people what
> > > > would your first reaction be I am interested to
> > know? Would you
> > > > not react
> > > > with horror just as she is? Would you not recoil
> > from the fact
> > > > that your own
> > > > son might be responsible for such senseless
> > violence? Would it not be
> > > > impossible for you to reconcile the person you
> > knew and loved and
> > > > broughtup, with the fact that he might have
> > planned the deaths of
> > > > two dozen people?
> > > > What is so strange about her reaction? I find it
> > heartbreaking
> > > > actually to
> > > > see her cry on television. Just as I find
> > heartbreaking reading
> > > > what the
> > > > families of those who died, those who are in
> > hospital, are going
> > > > through.Terror and violence break and tear human
> > beings apart.
> > > > Including those who
> > > > are the perpetrators and their families.
> > > >
> > > > I would react exactly the same way. How would you
> > prefer she react
> > > > instead?Disown her son and immediately offer him
> > up at the altar
> > > > of national
> > > > security?
> > > >
> > > > And there is no disinformation in my post at all.
> > Unless you are
> > > > claimingthat the incident never occurred of
> > course? Are you?
> > > > Here's a report:
> > > >
> > http://kafila.org/2008/08/25/bomb-makers-of-hindutva/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > not capable of killing even a cockraoch just as
> > they eat iftar
> > > > with meaty
> > > > > kabas.!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > What is this supposed to mean? What does what
> > someone eats have to
> > > > do with
> > > > their capacity for violence?
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > > Aarti
> > > >
> > >
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