[Reader-list] Jamia Millia should be prosecuted

[Nazneen Anand Shamsi]

-would appreciate if someone could post this riposte to
jamia_millia_alumni_directory at yahoogroups.com as well-
Regards

Nazo

On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 5:59 AM, Nazneen Anand Shamsi <
nazoshmasi at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Dear Iram, Dear Taraprekash, Dear all,
>
> Let me begin by thanking Iram for her carefully articulated post. I loved
> reading it, however, I strongly disagree with her core argument, that it was
> wrong for Jamia's VC to give a legal aid to its students.
>
> Before I give reasons for stating why, please allow me to recapitulate
> Iram's argument and refute it simultaneously.
>
> What is Iram saying-
>
> First she states the facts pertaining to the case. They are the facts which
> are undisputed. This is followed by normative positioning that a judicial
> inquiry should take place, students should be treated with dignity and they
> should not remain under the police custody longer than it is required.
>
> Of course the assumption here is that a judicial inquiry would bare all and
> the 'truth' will be out in open, in a day and an age where we are still
> debating about merits or demerits of a 'Banerjee report' V/S 'Nanavati
> Report' Or a 'Sri Krishna Report'. By this I do not mean that an inquiry
> must not happen or that even if an inquiry happens truth as it is does not
> comes out. May be it does. I really don't know whether a judicial inquiry is
> the best option we have. Or are there any other options?
>
> As far as the issue of dignity is concerned, we all know, how our benign
> Delhi police treats a SAR or an Ifthikar with dignity. I will not be
> surprised if the same 'dignity' is meted out to a Mohammad Shakeel, or a
> Zia-ur -Rehman. I will consider it naive to assume otherwise, even if it is
> used as a 'fair' rhetorical device.
>
> In the sections that follow. Iram points out the premise for VC's action
> which was that an incident involving Jamia students and police happened in
> the past. Jamia students suffered and the then VC Gen(Retd)Zaki (Please
> correct me if I am wrong) did not use his power and authority to prevent
> this incident. This VC wants to set a new precedent by offering assistance.
>
> Iram finds this logic disturbing because of two reasons- first, if the
> students are found guilty then brand Jamia ceases to be a face of 'liberal'
> Islam in India and secondly she forwards a hypothetical pecuniary
> quantitative problematic that if more than two affiliates are arrested will
> the university bear the costs?
>
> Let me respond to this pecuniary argument first. Going by this logic should
> government of Delhi or Rajasthan or Maharastra not extend monetary
> compensation to its citizen who were affected by the blasts, lakhs of rupees
> because, if this were to be the case, then where would the Government get
> the same amount of compensation from, even if lets say, hypothetically
> speaking, point five percent of the population is affected by a similar act?
> Or being sometimes a responsible state, the Government of India not
> formulate special subsidies and provisions for tsunami affected people
> because certainly the Government of India would go bankrupt if only two
> percent of its population were to be affected by an unforeseen event?
>
> I find it deeply troubling to hedge present acts of assistance to persons
> in need against a future commitment or obligation to assist all persons with
> similar assistance. This thought calls for passivity rather than proactively
> engaging with a predicament, which is the need of the hour. How can one, by
> assisting someone with money to fight a case in a court of law become
> co-accused of a crime, if the court of law pronounces that person guilty?
> Doesn't this presumption works on the flawed logic of guilt by association?
>
> By calling Jamia the face of liberal Islam, I think, she is falling into a
> trap of rhetorical grandstanding? But then again I may be wrong. I certainly
> don't know if Islam is a homogeneous entity in India and Jamia, a Central
> university, which came into a legal existence by an Act of Parliament,
> represents its 'face'.  What would AMU be then, belly of 'liberal islam' and
> would that make Osmania its 'backside'? (due apologies to all concerned, the
> pun is intended of course) I would rather refrain myself from using such
> broad generalisations and moreover I would be more than happy to be
> educated, if anyone has got the time and inclination, to define in precise
> terms what does it mean to be a liberal Muslim or liberal Islam?
>
> Finally she states, by the way of a solution that, an autonomous body
> comprising of similar institutions should provide for a legal aid.
>
> I strongly disapprove of setting up of a Commission/autonomous body
> involving all the universities of Delhi to help all future students in
> need of such assistance. I find this attitude problematic for it tends to
> 'normalize' what I would rather regard as an exceptional event and treat
> such events on a case by case basis. This attitude tends to create or allow
> for dedicated institutional framework to exist that rationalizes and
> normalizes perceived risk. I would imagine that existence of such
> institutions would also 'normalize' communal/ethnic/caste profiling of
> students. Which I think would be far more dangerous.
>
> I would, however, say that Iram presents a very interesting rhetoric!
>
>  In other words, I think her argument broadly is this- if an individual is
> associated with a group, then that group is responsible to take care of the
> individual, if and only if, that individual does or does not commit an act
> which lies within the purview of all the acts sanctioned by that group.  Any
> attempt to extend assistance to such an individual, if it is perceived that
> he has committed an act that is considered to lie outside its purview is
> not-justified(in this regard please refer to her academic, non academic
> activity argument). Such assistance may hamper the image of the group, may
> set a wrong precedent and may be detrimental to all the members of that
> group, if and only if, by extending such and assistance, the individual is
> declared to be guilty by a member of a bigger group. In this case, it would
> of course be a judge presiding over a court of law.
>
> If this were to be the norm then certainly, no members of IIT or IIM or
> Infosys must have come forward to defend their Manjunaths or Satyendras for
> the fear of being labelled as siding with the 'corrupt' had their cases
> turned upside down.
>
> I believe all educational institutions be they hindu/muslim/dalit/jain or
> technical/non technical have an obligation towards the welfare of their
> students which is far more than mere academic/non-academic concerns. It has
> to do with deeper qualities to shape values and belief systems.
>
> Although I would be very cautious in pre-empting any judgment but let's for
> a moment consider, that these two students of Jamia are found guilty, they
> are pronounced as terrorists and are sentenced to be hanged, let us consider
> that they were in fact the culprits, they committed those ghastly acts, even
> in this scenario, I would consider Prof.Hasan's act to reach out to them and
> offer them assistance to be a far more courageous, that demonstrates
> character to fulfil institutional obligation and have trust in the law of
> the land, than to just let them rot for a ruthless and purely utilitarian
> objective for a greater common good of Muslims of India.
>
> Regards
>
> Nazo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 12:04 AM, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Thanks Iram for this well thought out mail. Such mails are rarity on the
>> list these days. I wonder what have the regular contributors to the list
>> discussion have to say about your views. When it comes to happenings
>> considered to be related to Islam or Muslims, some of the great minds on
>> this list either remain silent or use lots of ifs and buts. They don't
>> believe that Osama doctrine has inspired and mislead some individuals so
>> much that they are ready to become suicide attackers on Indians, which
>> they
>> believe are all Hindus. We sensible people think of social conditions as
>> responsible for fundamentalism among certain Muslims. When it comes to
>> increase in Hindu fundamentalism, apparently social conditions have no
>> role
>> to play.
>> No doubt, after a while they lose rationality. Somebody starts having
>> dreams
>> because couple of people were shot by the police and some were arrested.
>> That person doesn't lose sleep, at least he doesn't publicly announce it
>> on
>> the list, when co-ordinated bomb blasts take away so many innocent lives.
>> Killing of two Jamia students, not proven guilty till now by any court of
>> law, generates so much unrest on this list, but there is barely any mail
>> showing "spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings" for the Christian
>> community in Karnataka and Orisa. I wonder if we worry all the time only
>> about the majority in the minority communities. I wonder why did people of
>> India started supporting the communal powers so much that BJP became such
>> a
>> big power in Indian politics. The hindutva rhetoric they use was always
>> there in the time of Jan Sangh and Hindu Maha Sabha. The secularism of the
>> secular lobby has certain loop holes to make sure that Indians do not
>> consider the secular powers (whoever they are) as hypocrites. Okay, enough
>> of ranting.
>> Now to your mail. I agree with you not because it is wrong for a
>> university
>> to provide legal aid to its students, the universities can make such
>> policies and there is nothing wrong in it. But the reason that VC gave for
>> the legal support of these students was not good enough. He is right in
>> saying that they are innocent till they are proven guilty. But so is every
>> suspect. If Jamia vc says that he is willing to give legal aid to all its
>> students arrested on the suspicion of murder, rape, pickpocketing etc, it
>> won't be a wrong policy. But why only this case? He is worried about the
>> unfair image of Jamia being portrayed in the media, rightly so, but will
>> his
>> decision do anything good to the image?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Iram Ghufran" <iram at sarai.net>
>> To: <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>;
>> <jamia_millia_alumni_directory at yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Jamia Millia should be prosecuted
>>
>>
>> > Dear all
>> >
>> > This is in continuation of the discussion on whether or not, Jamia
>> > Millia Islamia should provide legal aid to its students - Mohammad
>> > Shakeel and Zia-ur -Rehman, arrested on charges of terrorist and anti
>> > national activities.
>> >
>> > Before I go further, let me say very categorically that like many others
>> > on this forum and elsewhere, I believe there needs to be a judicial
>> > inquiry in the Batla House encounter, attempts should be made to ensure
>> > that the students do not remain in police custody longer than necessary
>> > and that pressure should be built to ensure that they are treated with
>> > dignity in police custody.
>> >
>> > I will begin with a question. What choices did Mushirul Hasan, Vice
>> > Chancellor of Jamia MIllia Islamia have in terms of 'show of support' to
>> > his students?
>> >
>> > In his address to the student body and later at a press conference,
>> > Mushirul Hasan, VC of Jamia Millia Islamia stated that the University
>> > would provide legal aid to the arrested students, from the Student
>> > Welfare Fund. I feel that the Vice Chancellor, should not have promised
>> > this. He can provide legal aid in a personal capacity, as part of a
>> > citizens collective but NOT as Vice Chancellor ON BEHALF of the
>> > University.
>> >
>> > Before I go into my reasons for saying this, let me add that my argument
>> > is based on the premise that the term 'legal aid' implies monetary help
>> > to fund a court case - specially for people who would otherwise not have
>> > a fair legal representation.
>> >
>> > The VC cited an earlier incident when armed policemen forcibly entered
>> > the SRK boys hostel, beat up and took in custody many students. He is
>> > using this as a precedent for Jamia to support the two students on issue
>> > under discussion. For a PUCL report on the previos episode, see -
>> > http://www.pucl.org/reports/Delhi/delhi-jamia.htm
>> > The aforementioned incident happened on campus. The students were
>> > mistreated within the University compound, under the 'guardianship' of
>> > the VC, the Proctor, the Registrar, and the hostel Warden. The
>> > University administration, responsible for the welfare of the students
>> > residing on campus was unable to prevent this unfair police action.
>> >
>> > The Butla House encounter and arrests are a different issue. Here the
>> > charges on the students have nothing to do with their academic life
>> > (they allegedly did not blow up the chemistry lab in a failed
>> > experiment), nor their non- academic university life (they did not
>> > injure spectators in a inter university football championship). They
>> > were certainly not representing Jamia Millia Islamia or the University
>> > ideals of universal brotherhood, peace and secularism in the act that
>> > they have been accused of committing (falsely or not).
>> >
>> > My question is that if for example, the University has two thousand
>> > students on its rolls, and even two percent of them get involved in some
>> > form of litigation, will Jamia Millia be willing to support 40 cases a
>> > year - cases that may drag on, beyond the academic term of the enrolled
>> > student? Will the University provide 'legal aid' to students accused of
>> > other 'anti State', 'anti national' activities (such as aiding militants
>> > in the north East, Kashmir, maoists in Orissa, Chattisgarh)?
>> >
>> > If a University believes itself to be the guardian of its students and
>> > in that capacity provides legal aid, then there have to be norms laid
>> > down - Which cases will get primacy? Who will decide which particular
>> > student should be legally supported and which student should be left to
>> > his or her own devices? The University also has to take into account the
>> > thousands of other students and its responsibility to them. By making
>> > Jamia Millia Islamia, an interested party in this 'case', the VC has
>> > dragged not only the University, faculty, staff, students into this
>> > unfortunate series of events but has put at stake the Universitys
>> > reputation. Does the VC have a plan of action, in case the arrested
>> > students are implicated on charges of 'terrorism'? Will the logic of
>> > 'innocent until proven guilty' help the rest of the students adjust to a
>> > world that will see them as 'supporters' of 'terrorists'.  Even if one
>> > of these students is sentenced to even one year of jail for aiding/
>> > abetting an anti national act, it is not just an individual who will
>> > lose face, it is not a team of lawyers, activists, supports who will
>> > lose face, it will be the institution which lays claim to being the
>> > 'liberal' face of the Indian muslim. Has the VC calculated the
>> > implications of this?
>> >
>> > I feel that an autonomous body (perhaps with University support - Jamia,
>> > JNU and DU) should be set up - that provides legal aid and counseling to
>> > students. The Universities can provide financial support to such a body,
>> > the students can contribute and raise independent funding. This is a
>> > tentative proposition which has had precedent in various forms of
>> > Committees for Defense for people accused of 'crimes' against the
>> 'State'.
>> >
>> > I understand that a strong political statement was the need of the hour.
>> > But was a commitment to legal aid the only option?
>> >
>> > Warm regards
>> > Iram
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yousuf wrote:
>> >> The Vice-chancellor in his speech and statement has said that the money
>> >> for the accused's legal support will come from the "Student's Welfare
>> >> Fund" - which does not come from the UGC or any ministry. It comes from
>> >> donations and a small fraction of the fees students pay. Which means
>> that
>> >> no tax-payers money is involved here.
>> >>
>> >> And even if you depended on the court-appointed counsels, that would be
>> >> paid by the tax-payer.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Mohit Agarwal <mohit_agarwal at indiainfo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> From: Mohit Agarwal <mohit_agarwal at indiainfo.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [jamia_millia_alumni_directory] Jamia Millia should be
>> >>> prosecuted
>> >>> To: jamia_millia_alumni_directory at yahoogroups.com
>> >>> Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 6:56 PM
>> >>> It is true that everybody is innocent until proven
>> >>> otherwise. But just
>> >>> for junta's knowledge, in criminal cases, if accused is
>> >>> unable to get
>> >>> legal defence, court arranges legal counsel at
>> >>> taxpayer's expense.
>> >>>
>> >>> The question is not whether Prof Hasan is a secular person
>> >>> or not. I think more relevant question is ..."is it
>> >>> proper for a
>> >>> university to bear litigation expenses for the accused
>> >>> students? If yes
>> >>> then where do you draw a line? Only for students accused of
>> >>> terrorism? or
>> >>> for all sort of accusations?
>> >>>
>> >>> But either which way calls for sacking of Prof are totally
>> >>> ridiculous.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Mohit Agarwal
>> >>> Course - ??
>> >>> Batch - ??
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________
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