[Reader-list] Jamia Millia should be prosecuted

Nazneen Anand Shamsi nazoshmasi at googlemail.com
Fri Sep 26 17:40:39 IST 2008 

On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Nazneen Anand Shamsi <
nazoshmasi at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Dear Iram,
>
> Thank you for your clarification apropos Taraprakash's mail. Allow me to
> add my two bit. Please tell me, why are you again and again pushing for an
> institutional framework for dispensing aid? I find this thinking paranoid
> and extremely dangerous, because, it tends to normalizes, fear and
> insecurity on one hand and routinizes suspicion on the other.
>
> Regarding your second argument, I don't know, whether there can be a bigger
> interest for an educational institution than to take care of its students
> and help the most vulnerable of its lot in the time of need. Clearly, the
> students, have agreed to accept university''s  aid because they can't afford
> any other higher legal assistance. I am sure, as a matter of saying, if for
> instance,Salman Khurshid's child would have to undergo same circumstances,
> he would surely have not availed of any legal aid from any university of
> this world, by virtue of his higher social position. Likewise a VC of Jamia
> helping its student can be regarded a case of 'Muslim' helping fellow
> 'Muslim' only by those who consider an aid given to Chnadra mohan by Baroda
> university as a case of a 'Hindu' helping a fellow 'Hindu'. And the less is
> said about the 'muslimness' of Prof. Hasan is better.
>
> I do not want to respond to your emotional plea for careful, considered
> responses because I feel that all responses, be it in a situation of crises
> or otherwise must be careful and considered, especially on a public
> non-moderated list like this one.
>
> However I would urge you to articulate your position further.
>
> Best
>
> Nazo
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:16 AM, <iram at sarai.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> There are two main points that I raised:
>>
>> - Will the University support/ provide legal aid to students accused of
>> other 'anti state', 'anti national' activities? I would be very happy if
>> such a practice becomes the 'norm'. My problem is that this shouldnt
>> become
>> a one-off case - but the more optimistic list members see this as a good
>> precedent for a university, and teaching institution to have a larger
>> stake
>> in the future of its students.
>>
>> - The other key issue is that the VC is acting on a principle that a
>> person
>> is 'innocent until proven guilty', and that he as 'guardian' is
>> responsible
>> for the welfare of the students. I agree with this. However, I feel the VC
>> should not be tying the University interest with those of the two students
>> arrested. It is not just a question of 'larger good'. The University could
>> have shown support in many ways. This action is more of a political
>> statement. Except that I don't understand what it is saying..
>>
>> I have no desire to get into a discussion on this guy called Osama, nor do
>> I wish to  discuss Right, Left politics with you. I can only say that
>> please try to understand situations in a more nuanced way, instead of
>> 'black and white'.  Please be a little more sensitive to other peoples
>> responses and reactions to a situation of crises. Some people do lose
>> sleep. Others could be plagued by nightmares.
>>
>> A bomb blast in a city market has anonymous targets. It is a heinous crime
>> by people who lack basic humanity. It is a crime that is condemned by all
>> sections of civil society.
>>
>> I am sure that you would agree that a fake encounter is also a crime -
>> committed by the State, by the people who are meant to protect the
>> citizens. It is an act of betrayal. So if someone can see loopholes in the
>> police version and believes that the Batla House encounter was fake, they
>> have probably lost faith and trust in the State and all those who are
>> Silent. Sometimes the Silence of those who must speak is painful. One can
>> lose sleep over it.
>>
>> Warm regards
>> Iram
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4:34 am 09/26/08 "TaraPrakash" <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Thanks Iram for this well thought out mail. Such mails are rarity on
>> > the list these days. I wonder what have the regular contributors to
>> > the list discussion have to say about your views. When it comes to
>> > happenings considered to be related to Islam or Muslims, some of the
>> > great minds on this list either remain silent or use lots of ifs and
>> > buts. They don't believe that Osama doctrine has inspired and mislead
>> > some individuals so much that they are ready to become suicide
>> > attackers on Indians, which they believe are all Hindus. We sensible
>> > people think of social conditions as responsible for fundamentalism
>> > among certain Muslims. When it comes to increase in Hindu
>> > fundamentalism, apparently social conditions have no role to play.
>> > No doubt, after a while they lose rationality. Somebody starts having
>> > dreams because couple of people were shot by the police and some were
>> > arrested. That person doesn't lose sleep, at least he doesn't
>> > publicly announce it on the list, when co-ordinated bomb blasts take
>> > away so many innocent lives. Killing of two Jamia students, not
>> > proven guilty till now by any court of law, generates so much unrest
>> > on this list, but there is barely any mail showing "spontaneous
>> > overflow of powerful feelings" for the Christian community in
>> > Karnataka and Orisa. I wonder if we worry all the time only about the
>> > majority in the minority communities. I wonder why did people of
>> > India started supporting the communal powers so much that BJP became
>> > such a big power in Indian politics. The hindutva rhetoric they use
>> > was always there in the time of Jan Sangh and Hindu Maha Sabha. The
>> > secularism of the secular lobby has certain loop holes to make sure
>> > that Indians do not consider the secular powers (whoever they are) as
>> > hypocrites. Okay, enough of ranting.
>> > Now to your mail. I agree with you not because it is wrong for a
>> > university to provide legal aid to its students, the universities can
>> > make such policies and there is nothing wrong in it. But the reason
>> > that VC gave for the legal support of these students was not good
>> > enough. He is right in saying that they are innocent till they are
>> > proven guilty. But so is every suspect. If Jamia vc says that he is
>> > willing to give legal aid to all its students arrested on the
>> > suspicion of murder, rape, pickpocketing etc, it won't be a wrong
>> > policy. But why only this case? He is worried about the unfair image
>> > of Jamia being portrayed in the media, rightly so, but will his
>> > decision do anything good to the image?
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Iram Ghufran" <iram at sarai.net>
>> > To: <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> > Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>;
>> > <jamia_millia_alumni_directory at yahoogroups.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:58 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Jamia Millia should be prosecuted
>> >
>> >
>> > >  Dear all
>> > >
>> > >  This is in continuation of the discussion on whether or not, Jamia
>> > >  Millia Islamia should provide legal aid to its students - Mohammad
>> > >  Shakeel and Zia-ur -Rehman, arrested on charges of terrorist and
>> > >  anti national activities.
>> > >
>> > >  Before I go further, let me say very categorically that like many
>> > >  others on this forum and elsewhere, I believe there needs to be a
>> > >  judicial inquiry in the Batla House encounter, attempts should be
>> > >  made to ensure that the students do not remain in police custody
>> > >  longer than necessary and that pressure should be built to ensure
>> > >  that they are treated with dignity in police custody.
>> > >
>> > >  I will begin with a question. What choices did Mushirul Hasan, Vice
>> > >  Chancellor of Jamia MIllia Islamia have in terms of 'show of
>> > >  support' to his students?
>> > >
>> > >  In his address to the student body and later at a press conference,
>> > >  Mushirul Hasan, VC of Jamia Millia Islamia stated that the
>> > >  University would provide legal aid to the arrested students, from
>> > >  the Student Welfare Fund. I feel that the Vice Chancellor, should
>> > >  not have promised this. He can provide legal aid in a personal
>> > >  capacity, as part of a citizens collective but NOT as Vice
>> > >  Chancellor ON BEHALF of the University.
>> > >
>> > >  Before I go into my reasons for saying this, let me add that my
>> > >  argument is based on the premise that the term 'legal aid' implies
>> > >  monetary help to fund a court case - specially for people who
>> > >  would otherwise not have a fair legal representation.
>> > >
>> > >  The VC cited an earlier incident when armed policemen forcibly
>> > >  entered the SRK boys hostel, beat up and took in custody many
>> > >  students. He is using this as a precedent for Jamia to support the
>> > >  two students on issue under discussion. For a PUCL report on the
>> > >  previos episode, see - http://www.pucl.org/reports/Delhi/delhi-jami
>> > a.htm
>> > >  The aforementioned incident happened on campus. The students were
>> > >  mistreated within the University compound, under the
>> > >  'guardianship' of the VC, the Proctor, the Registrar, and the
>> > >  hostel Warden. The University administration, responsible for the
>> > >  welfare of the students residing on campus was unable to prevent
>> > > this unfair police action.
>> > >  The Butla House encounter and arrests are a different issue. Here
>> > >  the charges on the students have nothing to do with their academic
>> > >  life (they allegedly did not blow up the chemistry lab in a failed
>> > >  experiment), nor their non- academic university life (they did not
>> > >  injure spectators in a inter university football championship).
>> > >  They were certainly not representing Jamia Millia Islamia or the
>> > >  University ideals of universal brotherhood, peace and secularism
>> > >  in the act that they have been accused of committing (falsely or
>> > > not).
>> > >  My question is that if for example, the University has two thousand
>> > >  students on its rolls, and even two percent of them get involved
>> > >  in some form of litigation, will Jamia Millia be willing to
>> > >  support 40 cases a year - cases that may drag on, beyond the
>> > >  academic term of the enrolled student? Will the University provide
>> > >  'legal aid' to students accused of other 'anti State', 'anti
>> > >  national' activities (such as aiding militants in the north East,
>> > > Kashmir, maoists in Orissa, Chattisgarh)?
>> > >  If a University believes itself to be the guardian of its students
>> > >  and in that capacity provides legal aid, then there have to be
>> > >  norms laid down - Which cases will get primacy? Who will decide
>> > >  which particular student should be legally supported and which
>> > >  student should be left to his or her own devices? The University
>> > >  also has to take into account the thousands of other students and
>> > >  its responsibility to them. By making Jamia Millia Islamia, an
>> > >  interested party in this 'case', the VC has dragged not only the
>> > >  University, faculty, staff, students into this unfortunate series
>> > >  of events but has put at stake the Universitys reputation. Does
>> > >  the VC have a plan of action, in case the arrested students are
>> > >  implicated on charges of 'terrorism'? Will the logic of 'innocent
>> > >  until proven guilty' help the rest of the students adjust to a
>> > >  world that will see them as 'supporters' of 'terrorists'.  Even if
>> > >  one of these students is sentenced to even one year of jail for
>> > aiding/ abetting an anti national act, it is not just an individual who
>> > >  will lose face, it is not a team of lawyers, activists, supports
>> > >  who will lose face, it will be the institution which lays claim to
>> > >  being the 'liberal' face of the Indian muslim. Has the VC
>> > >  calculated the implications of this?
>> > >
>> > >  I feel that an autonomous body (perhaps with University support -
>> > >  Jamia, JNU and DU) should be set up - that provides legal aid and
>> > >  counseling to students. The Universities can provide financial
>> > >  support to such a body, the students can contribute and raise
>> > >  independent funding. This is a tentative proposition which has had
>> > >  precedent in various forms of Committees for Defense for people
>> > > accused of 'crimes' against the 'State'.
>> > >  I understand that a strong political statement was the need of the
>> > >  hour. But was a commitment to legal aid the only option?
>> > >
>> > >  Warm regards
>> > >  Iram
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >  Yousuf wrote:
>> > >>  The Vice-chancellor in his speech and statement has said that the
>> > >>  money for the accused's legal support will come from the
>> > >>  "Student's Welfare Fund" - which does not come from the UGC or
>> > >>  any ministry. It comes from donations and a small fraction of the
>> > >>  fees students pay. Which means that no tax-payers money is
>> > >> involved here.
>> > >>  And even if you depended on the court-appointed counsels, that
>> > >>  would be paid by the tax-payer.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>  --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Mohit Agarwal <mohit_agarwal at indiainfo.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>>  From: Mohit Agarwal <mohit_agarwal at indiainfo.com>
>> > >>>  Subject: Re: [jamia_millia_alumni_directory] Jamia Millia should
>> > >>>  be prosecuted
>> > >>>  To: jamia_millia_alumni_directory at yahoogroups.com
>> > >>>  Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 6:56 PM
>> > >>>  It is true that everybody is innocent until proven
>> > >>>  otherwise. But just
>> > >>>  for junta's knowledge, in criminal cases, if accused is
>> > >>>  unable to get
>> > >>>  legal defence, court arranges legal counsel at
>> > >>>  taxpayer's expense.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>  The question is not whether Prof Hasan is a secular person
>> > >>>  or not. I think more relevant question is ..."is it
>> > >>>  proper for a
>> > >>>  university to bear litigation expenses for the accused
>> > >>>  students? If yes
>> > >>>  then where do you draw a line? Only for students accused of
>> > >>>  terrorism? or
>> > >>>  for all sort of accusations?
>> > >>>
>> > >>>  But either which way calls for sacking of Prof are totally
>> > >>>  ridiculous.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>  Mohit Agarwal
>> > >>>  Course - ??
>> > >>>  Batch - ??
>> > >>>
>> > >>>  ------------------------------------
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >
>> > >  _________________________________________
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>>
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