[Reader-list] Jamia Millia University should be prosecuted

[Tapas Ray]

It's exchanges like this that make it worthwhile to stay on here.



2008/9/27 Nazneen Anand Shamsi <nazoshmasi at googlemail.com>:
> Dear Inder,
>
> Certain words, phrases crop up in my mind when I read your response- reverse
> engineering, hacking, hermeneutics, reading, translating. These words are
> fairly well circulated in our social life. All of these words convey, in a
> sense, perhaps, exercises in code making and code breaking. Meaning making
> as a hobby, I feel, is slowly fading away. I agree with you when you say
> that 'people want instant results'. Perhaps this is just one more sign of
> our times. We are not interested in processes anymore. We are not interested
> in exposing ourselves to a knowledge, which tells us in all its rawness, how
> a thing was arrived at. In this rush to consume, be it a national identity
> or a candy bar we have grown to appreciate just the product. In its final
> form. Packaged. Sealed. Sterilized. And yes with a price and that crucial
> date of manufacture and expiry date intact.
>
> Change- they say, is the essence of our common human existence. But is it
> not that the more people change the more they remain the same. I still feel
> sometimes, that even in this day and age we are essentially hunter gathers.
> Always out of our caves in search of something. Jobs. Spouses. Causes.
> Lifestyles. Thoughts. Ideas. And once we find something that gives us a
> little meaning. We stop. We demarcate. We build small fences around and like
> that dog on the street who pisses on four poles and thinks that it is his
> territory and we bark and we bite, sometimes we fight too against all those
> who contest and dares to question us. Present takes over. Truth, or that
> thing called truth! Takes over. When the only truth of our frail existence
> is of course death. That one day we will all be gone. And with us all our
> memories, desires, aspirations, bitterness, hunger, food, sex,
> companionship, conversations, life plans, rights/wrongs, smartness, style,
> cleverness will go. Natural death, for me, is a calming thought. The
> calumniation of a journey.  A full stop. The greatest leveler. And the irony
> is that in the moment of death we will take away with us its memory and its
> experience. The code will cease to exist. The translation will stop. The
> foreground will merge with the background.
>
> Regards
>
> Nazo
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 4:31 AM, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> well said,   "we want to deliberately create that distance to make
>> meaning?  "   Dear Nazo
>>
>> certailly,the image in front of our eyes is illusion, beret of that
>> madness which created it in the first palce.. i am not only talking
>> about a photograph, but about the various derived meanings which
>> resemble an image
>>
>> .what we get ?  we are certainly struggling to make some sense of what
>> we see, feel, her  and even touch.
>>
>> anything becomes a backgroound, in a situation. of image or otherwise.
>> what violence is happening in the background is struggling for a
>> language, which is perhaps not there.  It might be discovering one
>> only when someting replaces its own background.   There is deep flux
>> going on between this background-foreground of reality.   I am
>> personally wondering if we could ever get a right picture of ' what it
>> is' . since background instantly lapses into silence, without those
>> essential codes which occupy the meaning.
>>
>> we certainly create meaning of  a history only when we distance
>> ourselves from it. otherwise there is no way we can talk ' the
>> hysteria of history' .... this is the paradox, which often keep us
>> busy,  chasing the other, so distortions, wittingly or unwittingly.
>> the saner thing appears, here, is that we need to emancipate ourselves
>> from time to time, keep ourselves open to doubt. this is perhaps, too
>> much to demand, since people want instant results, both  in their
>> private and public life. But we know how changes occur, sometimes
>> nothing seems to change. particularly when the word ' revolution'  is
>> passe.
>>
>> you have rightly said that social reality is coded, but how much
>> quantum of the coded reality gets its ' time ' to occupy the sapce for
>> a meaning.   ( i am perhaps vague ) . the impermenance of whites,
>> blacks  and blues in the sky  makes it all time grey.
>> but then perhaps, we need a contrast to realise our own beings, our
>> identities, genders so that background ( greys ) are not talked about,
>>  literally a grey is colour a coded shade too. an illusion again. but
>> something is more rapid than eye which thinks it catches full.
>>
>>
>> in another post, i was thinking about a 10000 year old histroy to
>> begin with, where we can certainly make this grey more visible. but
>> since we have  to talk and talk , so we need codes which are available
>> to us from our recent history only. so 1947 is coded in that sense,
>> but since we have moved far ahead of 1947 it strangely becomes a
>> background reality. the pain of it atleast. even the recent delhi bomb
>> blasts become coded realities, but much happens always than we can
>> talk about
>>
>> love
>> is
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Nazneen Anand Shamsi
>> <nazoshmasi at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Inder,
>> >
>> > Thank you for a wonderful post. It made me think. Wasn't codes always a
>> part
>> > of our reality? I don't see any harm in that. What makes me wonder is
>> this
>> > whole background/foreground dichotomy. I think to see a picture as an
>> image
>> > composed of backgrounds and foregrounds is to engage in an exercise in
>> self
>> > delusion.
>> >
>> > Are there any backgrounds or foregrounds in a two dimensional frame. Or
>> is
>> > it that we want to deliberately create that distance to make meaning?
>> Would
>> > it be wrong to say that a picture is only composed of backgrounds etched
>> in
>> > time and as we move along we call, for the sake of convenience, some of
>> > those backgrounds foregrounds? Or that every foreground was a background
>> > first, till we re-frame our perspective? Is 1947 really the background or
>> is
>> > it a foreground, we are revisiting as in a state of deja vu?
>> >
>> > The social world will always unfold in front our eyes and will always
>> seem
>> > like a code, for we will never know what it was. We will always try to
>> > interpret it. Grasp it. Clinch it. Manipulate it. There are no blacks or
>> > whites, only shades of gray. Constantly changing its color like those
>> dense
>> > over cast clouds on a windy day. Which shade of gray that cloud will take
>> > depends only on the wind.
>> >
>> > I do not know whether the Jamia incident can become a national issue, for
>> I
>> > truly believe that public memory is short. Between September and may,
>> > between winter and summer, a lot may happen. Lets hope and keep hoping
>> that
>> > it happens for the best.
>> >
>> > Warm regards
>> >
>> > Nazo
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:29 PM, inder salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear Nazo
>> >>
>> >> you have a point, it is now very intersting.  thanks for very good
>> >> reflections...
>> >>
>> >> yes, where ever there is  free health care , people tend to consume
>> >> more medicine. .... yet another paradox.
>> >>
>> >> it was not just another case of an arrest where student was arrested
>> >> say on charges of rape etc. but the situation is quite political here.
>> >>  i still see 1947 kind of reality. I still see kings and princes
>> >> around, in that sense, i feel there were always prime ministers and
>> >> elections.
>> >>
>> >> i quote ronald barthi , The stadium is always coded, the punctum is
>> >> not. He is talking about photographs, where the backgroud is almost
>> >> insignficant,  thus giving a mysterious presence to the figures in the
>> >> foreground. I am just learning myself, here, to understand if we can
>> >> talk about the background reality of the muslims.   Li ving on yumana
>> >> pushta, i once asked a man what is your name, he politely replied,
>> >> mein to musalmaan hoon ( i am just a muslim ) . so the issue of
>> >> minority comes to the fore, the whole cane or worms begin to swarm the
>> >> surface which was meant for words, words which hold the meaning....
>> >>
>> >>  The media, the red and white scarf around the faces of the arrested
>> >> students, the muslim terrorism, the  necessary and un)necessary roles
>> >> played by police, the shaheed police officer, and the opposite side of
>> >> the muslims fundamentalsim: RSS Parivar, Everything is coded, and we
>> >> readiilyy see green as muslim and orange as Hindu and so on...
>> >>
>> >> But here, the punctum is the large background of human mass, who are
>> >> suspicious... ........ the term ' jamia, which was not a major
>> >> foreground part of the image till recently is begining to become
>> >> coded, Thus its VC  who happens to be a muslim. Everhing is becoming
>> >> like a stadium.
>> >>
>> >> the palyers are playing the game. But there is unpridicatable nautre
>> >> of game,, a strange dynamics in the audience, hapening all the time,
>> >> outside the stadium too, beyond the hills too, beyond terrotiers too.
>> >> the air and sun mixed with history is such that the background happens
>> >> withoiut a representation, and thus a mysterioius, and unpridictable.
>> >>
>> >> The entry of HRD in all of this has again added a code to the existing
>> >> codes. That was inevitable, because the stadium  was bigger than it
>> >> looked before.
>> >> NOt surprising , the jamia issue can become a national issue for anti
>> >> BJP campaing, who tried their best to catapult Amanath Land issue into
>> >> national election issue......, and thus all kinds of distortions.  One
>> >> of the distortion is :  creating legal cell, but how to see that not
>> >> happening, given the nature of coded presence, which is too
>> >> overwhelming.  we are caught in the laybrinth of paradoxes, i quote
>> >> Focualt
>> >>
>> >> The background is what sometimes, looks more deeper than the the
>> obvious.
>> >>
>> >> love
>> >> is
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Nazneen Anand Shamsi
>> >> <nazoshmasi at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Dear Radhikarajen, Dear Iram, Dear all
>> >> >
>> >> > This is exactly what I was fearing. One incident happens in a
>> localized
>> >> > setting, and people want to set up an institution to 'deal' with it.
>> >> > Creating one more category to trap a section of the society which is
>> >> > already
>> >> > struggling with other categories. This is far more alienating. I would
>> >> > not
>> >> > be surprised, that given the timing of this benign act, some people on
>> >> > this
>> >> > list would be extremely happy, for their wishes were answered. But the
>> >> > larger fallout, in this case would be, that other communities would
>> >> > begin to
>> >> > ask for such institutions as well. Which in turn would do more harm
>> than
>> >> > good to vulnerable sections of society. I would expect the members of
>> >> > the
>> >> > state to act with more impunity, in cases to come, for now they can
>> >> > always
>> >> > say to members of minority community, yes we are doing this but you
>> may
>> >> > go
>> >> > to this institution and register your protest. This is exactly what
>> >> > happened
>> >> > in East Germany, which allowed Statsi to harass people at will as they
>> >> > have
>> >> > compensatory institutions at place.
>> >> >
>> >> > I find this act by HRD Minister deeply anguishing. This is not called
>> >> > for at
>> >> > all. I register my protest in the setting up of this legal cell in the
>> >> > strongest possible manner.
>> >> >
>> >> > Best
>> >> >
>> >> > Nazo
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 12:30 PM, <radhikarajen at vsnl.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> STOP PRESS
>> >> >>
>> >> >>   expect the vily old fox to encash the votes, Shri, Arjun Singh, HRD
>> >> >> minister visited the VC of Jamia Milia University to extend all help
>> to
>> >> >> all
>> >> >> terror accused, now Bhajrang dal also can expect all help for the
>> >> >> activities
>> >> >> from HRD minister. A special legal cell has been constituted to
>> >> >> encourage
>> >> >> obstruction of judicial proceedings with reputed  "criminal" lawyers
>> >> >> and the
>> >> >> panel will be headed by R K Anand, legal illuninary who can obstruct
>> >> >> all
>> >> >> proceedings for the right fee, able assisted by minister of Law, H R
>> >> >> Bharadwaj, who was instrumental in obstruction of impeachment of a
>> >> >> judge in
>> >> >> Parliament, Mr. Jce. Ramaswamy. Mr. Kapil Sibal will be this time
>> >> >> arguing
>> >> >> both i and out of parliament for the legal aid cell. ( In impeachment
>> >> >> proceedings being non member of parliament, Mr. sibal had argued at
>> the
>> >> >> entrance of the hall of parliament.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> All the universities will be provided budgetary allocations on caste,
>> >> >> faith
>> >> >> based estimates with funds to extend legal aid., the minister
>> assured,
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> particular care will be taken of the faith based terrorists and all
>> >> >> help
>> >> >> will be extended to improve law and order and the accused can have
>> all
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> help from various minstries also like railway passes for going to the
>> >> >> courts, subsidised fertisiser, ammonium nitrate for the needy.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: iram ghufran <iram_ghufran at yahoo.co.in>
>> >> >> Date: Friday, September 26, 2008 2:48 pm
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Jamia Millia University should be
>> prosecuted
>> >> >> To: reader-list at sarai.net
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Apologies for x posting but this is a response by Sudhanva
>> >> >> > Deshpande to a similar email I sent on the MCRC alumni  group...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----
>> >> >> > From: Sudhanva Deshpande <sudu26 at yahoo.co.uk>
>> >> >> > To: mcrc_jamia_alumni at yahoogroups.com
>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, 26 September, 2008 1:04:38 PM
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [mcrc_jamia_alumni] Jamia Millia University should be
>> >> >> > prosecuted
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > dear iram (and others),
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > just one more point, which i forgot to mention earlier. prof
>> >> >> > hasan's stand needs to be contrasted to the stand taken a couple
>> >> >> > of years ago by the VC of baroda university, when bajrang dal
>> >> >> > goons targetted the arts dept. one student, chandramohan, and the
>> >> >> > dean, shivji panikkar, were the victims of the hindu right, and
>> >> >> > the VC, far from defending the student or dean, simply went along
>> >> >> > with this victimisation. that's what i mean by the line of least
>> >> >> > offence. the dangers of such a line are evident: it can destroy
>> >> >> > careers, departments, or even threaten lives.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > the challenge, then, is to create a larger sense of 'community'
>> >> >> > and 'engagement' where students, faculty and staff of a university
>> >> >> > are encouraged to participate in larger alliances that encompass
>> >> >> > not only their sectional interests (as students/faculty/ staff)
>> >> >> > but go beyond the university, to the neighbourhood, the city, and
>> >> >> > even beyond.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > cheers,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > sudhanva
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > * * * * *
>> >> >> > Sudhanva Deshpande
>> >> >> > LeftWord, 12 Rajendra Prasad Road, New Delhi 110001
>> >> >> > Phones: 2335 9456, 2335 6966 (office), 2526 4822
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----
>> >> >> > From: Sudhanva Deshpande <sudu26 at yahoo. co.uk>
>> >> >> > To: mcrc_jamia_alumni@ yahoogroups. com
>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, 26 September, 2008 11:33:59
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [mcrc_jamia_ alumni] Jamia Millia University should
>> >> >> > be prosecuted
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > dear iram,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > thanks for your post. you have raised very important points. i'd
>> >> >> > like to respond to some of them.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 1. the VC is well within his rights to promise legal aid. he has
>> >> >> > clarified that he will not use UGC funds, but the monies raised
>> >> >> > internally by the univ, through fees etc. this is neither
>> >> >> > unprecedented nor irregular. there are scores of such instances
>> >> >> > across the world. the hindu today has a good editorial on this,
>> >> >> > especially on the legal aspects.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 2. you are right in saying that a student from manipur has as much
>> >> >> > claim to JMI as a student from zakir nagar. at any point that a
>> >> >> > manipuri student faces prosecution, one should use the current
>> >> >> > instance to mount pressure on the university to provide similar
>> >> >> > legal aid to the concerned student. in other words, one has to
>> >> >> > work towards expanding the university's sense of responsibility
>> >> >> > towards its students, rather than constricting it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 3. you are also right in asking the obvious question: what if the
>> >> >> > student/s are found guilty? the answer is obvious too: they must
>> >> >> > be punished according to the law of the land. but what is the law
>> >> >> > of the land, and how is that to be used to determine guilt as well
>> >> >> > as the quantum of punishment? these are not black and white, given
>> >> >> > entities. vigorous defence of the accused is aimed at ensuring
>> >> >> > that there is no miscarriage of justice -- for instance, that
>> >> >> > people who are not guilty are punished, or a guilty person is
>> >> >> > meted punishment that is not in consonance with the guilt. anyone
>> >> >> > who has even a passing acquaintance with the way indian courts
>> >> >> > work, will know that both are very real possibilities. some
>> >> >> > sections are convinced that this is a fake encounter. frankly, i
>> >> >> > prefer to remain a sceptic on this question. one has seen too many
>> >> >> > police theories being blown to bits, not to mention staged
>> >> >> > encounters and suchlike. on the other hand, the blasts were not
>> >> >> > imaginary and someone carried them out.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 4. however, if they are proved guilty, that does not tarnish the
>> >> >> > entire university just as much as it does not tarnish the entire
>> >> >> > community. it is precisely such easy association that the hindu
>> >> >> > right, for instance, wishes to establish, and which has to be
>> >> >> > contested.
>> >> >> > 5. while JMI is a national university and belongs to all of india,
>> >> >> > it is also located physically in a certain city, and in a certain
>> >> >> > area within that city. this dialectic -- national identity, local
>> >> >> > presence -- is something all institutions have to negotiate. i
>> >> >> > used to teach at the national institute of design in ahmedabad,
>> >> >> > and one of the points of critique many of us had with the
>> >> >> > institution was that it did very little to engage with the city
>> >> >> > and the locality of paldi where it is located. in times of stress,
>> >> >> > as during the dec 92 riots, when we were holed up in curfew for
>> >> >> > nearly a month, this lack of engagement became painfully evident.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 6. while this instance should be used as a precedence to enlarge
>> >> >> > the university's sense of responsibility towards its students,
>> >> >> > this does not, and must not mean that we should expect or argue
>> >> >> > for the university providing legal aid to every student facing any
>> >> >> > kind of prosecution. if suppose sanjiv nanda (or whatever the BMW
>> >> >> > guy's name is) were a student of JMI, there would be absolutely no
>> >> >> > justification for the university to provide him with legal aid. at
>> >> >> > the same time, if, say, a poor dalit student is the victim of
>> >> >> > casteist violence, she must be provided all legal (and other) help
>> by
>> >> >> > the university. in other words, all such cases, in my view,
>> >> >> > require sensitivity to context and circumstance. it is not, and
>> >> >> > cannot be, a simple application of a rule. it requires the
>> >> >> > university, in particular the VC, to exercise discretion.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > for sure, such decisions are never easy to take, and it is always
>> >> >> > convinient for those in authority to take the line of least
>> >> >> > offence. for once, a university administration has acted boldly
>> >> >> > and sensitively. for having done so, the VC is now also the target
>> >> >> > of attack from the hindu right. i think he needs to be defended in
>> >> >> > these circumstances -- even if we might have questions or doubts
>> >> >> > about this or that aspect of his decision. i am sure you will not
>> >> >> > see my defence of the VC's action as a defence of one individual,
>> >> >> > but rather of a larger principle.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > cheers,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > sudhanva
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > * * * * *
>> >> >> > Sudhanva Deshpande
>> >> >> > LeftWord, 12 Rajendra Prasad Road, New Delhi 110001
>> >> >> > Phones: 2335 9456, 2335 6966 (office), 2526 4822
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----
>> >> >> > From: iram ghufran <iram_ghufran@ yahoo.co. in>
>> >> >> > To: mcrc_jamia_alumni@ yahoogroups. com
>> >> >> > Cc: iram.ghufran@ gmail.com
>> >> >> > Sent: Friday, 26 September, 2008 2:13:48
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [mcrc_jamia_ alumni] Jamia Millia University should
>> >> >> > be prosecuted
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Dear Yousuf, all
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > This mail has been sent on various forums (with slight variation).
>> >> >> > So please excuse the x posting.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I have been trying to understand my discomfort with the University
>> >> >> > decision to provide legal aid to its students - Mohammad Shakeel
>> >> >> > and Zia-ur -Rehman, arrested on charges of terrorist and anti
>> >> >> > national activities. Below are some thoughts - formed and
>> >> >> > tentative but let me begin with a question - Who else benefits
>> >> >> > from this 'show of support' (besides the two boys)?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > And before I go further, let me say very categorically that like
>> >> >> > many others on this forum and elsewhere, I believe there needs to
>> >> >> > be a judicial inquiry in the Batla House encounter, attempts
>> >> >> > should be made to ensure that the students do not remain in police
>> >> >> > custody longer than necessary and that pressure should be built to
>> >> >> > ensure that they are treated with dignity in police custody.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Let me raise another question along the lines of the first: What
>> >> >> > choices did Mushirul Hasan, Vice Chancellor of Jamia Millia
>> >> >> > Islamia have in terms of 'show of support' to his students?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > In his address to the student body and later at a press
>> >> >> > conference, Mushirul Hasan, VC of Jamia Millia Islamia stated that
>> >> >> > the University would provide legal aid to the arrested students,
>> >> >> > from the Student Welfare Fund. I feel that the Vice Chancellor,
>> >> >> > should not have promised this. He can provide legal aid in a
>> >> >> > personal capacity, as part of a citizens collective but NOT as
>> >> >> > Vice Chancellor ON BEHALF of the University.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Before I go into my reasons for saying this, let me add that my
>> >> >> > argument is based on the premise that the term 'legal aid' implies
>> >> >> > monetary help to fund a court case - specially for people who
>> >> >> > would otherwise not have a fair legal representation.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The VC cited an earlier incident when armed policemen forcibly
>> >> >> > entered the SRK boys hostel, beat up and took in custody many
>> >> >> > students. He is using this as a precedent for Jamia to support the
>> >> >> > two students on issue under discussion. For a PUCL report on the
>> >> >> > previos episode, see - http://www.pucl. org/reports/ Delhi/delhi-
>> >> >> > jamia.htmThe aforementioned incident happened on campus. The
>> >> >> > students were mistreated within the University compound, under the
>> >> >> > 'guardianship' of the VC, the Proctor, the Registrar, and the
>> >> >> > hostel Warden. The University administration, responsible for the
>> >> >> > welfare of the students residing on campus was unable to prevent
>> >> >> > this unfair police action.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The Butla House encounter and arrests are a different issue. Here
>> >> >> > the charges on the students have nothing to do with their academic
>> >> >> > life (they allegedly did not blow up the chemistry lab in a failed
>> >> >> > experiment), nor their non- academic university life (they did not
>> >> >> > injure spectators in a inter university football championship) .
>> >> >> > They were certainly not representing Jamia Millia Islamia or the
>> >> >> > University ideals of universal brotherhood, peace and secularism
>> >> >> > in the act that they have been accused of committing (falsely or
>> >> >> > not). I am not sure if the University is responsible for student
>> >> >> > activities outside the campus...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > My question is that if for example, the University has two
>> >> >> > thousand students on its rolls, and even two percent of them get
>> >> >> > involved in some form of litigation, will Jamia Millia be willing
>> >> >> > to support 40 cases a year - cases that may drag on, beyond the
>> >> >> > academic term of the enrolled student? Will the University provide
>> >> >> > 'legal aid' to students accused of other 'anti State', 'anti
>> >> >> > national' activities (such as aiding militants in the north East,
>> >> >> > Kashmir, maoists in Orissa, Chattisgarh) ?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If a University believes itself to be the guardian of its students
>> >> >> > and in that capacity provides legal aid, then there have to be
>> >> >> > norms laid down - Which cases will get primacy? Who will decide
>> >> >> > which particular student should be legally supported and which
>> >> >> > student should be left to his or her own devices? The University
>> >> >> > also has to take into account the thousands of other students and
>> >> >> > its responsibility to them. By making Jamia Millia Islamia, an
>> >> >> > interested party in this 'case', the VC has dragged not only the
>> >> >> > University, faculty, staff, students into this unfortunate series
>> >> >> > of events but has put at stake the Universitys reputation. Does
>> >> >> > the VC have a plan of action, in case the arrested students are
>> >> >> > implicated on charges of terrorism? Will the logic of 'innocent
>> >> >> > until proven guilty' help the rest of the students adjust to a
>> >> >> > world that will see them as 'supporters' of 'terrorists' . It will
>> >> >> > 'not be the end of the story' but perhaps the beginning of  a
>> >> >> > more gruesome one. Even if one of these students is sentenced to
>> >> >> > even one year of jail for aiding/ abetting an anti national act,
>> >> >> > it is not just an individual who will lose face, it is not a team
>> >> >> > of lawyers, activists, supports who will lose face, it will be the
>> >> >> > institution which lays claim to being the 'liberal' face of the
>> >> >> > Indian muslim. Has the VC calculated the implications of this?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I feel that an autonomous body (perhaps with University support -
>> >> >> > Jamia, JNU and DU) should be set up - that provides legal aid and
>> >> >> > counseling to students. The Universities can provide financial
>> >> >> > support to such a body, the students can contribute and raise
>> >> >> > independent funding. This is a tentative proposition which has had
>> >> >> > precedent in various forms of Committees for Defense for people
>> >> >> > accused of 'crimes' against the 'State'.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I understand that a strong political statement was the need of the
>> >> >> > hour. But was a commitment to legal aid the only option? Still
>> >> >> > thinking...
>> >> >> > Warm regards
>> >> >> > Iram
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > PS: Regarding the Jamia neighbourhood, the VC stated that the boys
>> >> >> > are being supported because they are students of Jamia Millia and
>> >> >> > not because they are residents of a particular area. Jamia is a
>> >> >> > central university and students from all over the country and
>> >> >> > abroad are enrolled here. A student from Manipur (with her
>> >> >> > concerns regarding AFSPA) has as much claim to Jamia as a student
>> >> >> > from Zakir Nagar (with her concerns regarding representation of
>> >> >> > her community). I dont feel comfortable with linking the
>> >> >> > 'destinies' of the neighbourhood (with Zakir Nagar, Batla House,
>> >> >> > Joga Bai, Shaheen Bagh, Hari Kothi, and more of Okhla) with the
>> >> >> > University (with UP, Bihar, Assam, Orissa, Kazakhastan, Iran etc).
>> >> >> > Yousuf, I share your concerns about the neighbourhood in all its
>> >> >> > complexities (migration, land mafia, media misrepresentation) but
>> >> >> > somehow I dont understand why Jamia is treated like a 'mohalle ka
>> >> >> > University'. I'm still trying to gather my thoughts on this and
>> >> >> > perhaps we could discuss them at a later stage.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ============ ========= ========= =
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----
>> >> >> > From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo. com>
>> >> >> > To: radhikarajen@ vsnl.net; reader-list@ sarai.net; srirang jha
>> >> >> > <jha.srirang@ gmail.com>
>> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, 24 September, 2008 9:48:10 PM
>> >> >> > Subject: [mcrc_jamia_ alumni] Re: [Reader-list] Jamia Millia
>> >> >> > University should be prosecuted
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Dear Srirang Jha
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Your statement: "why an intellectual like Mushirul Hasan would
>> >> >> > indulge in such a pastime" I think this is precisely the problem
>> >> >> > here. Most social problems in our midst crop up because the
>> >> >> > intellectuals don't want to come down to "such pastimes". I think
>> >> >> > its a great step (although risky) for Mushirul Hasan to take a
>> >> >> > stand here. He said that as VC he is the guardian of all students,
>> >> >> > and will help them legally UNTIL PROVED GUILTY. It is very easy
>> >> >> > otherwise to allow the law to take its own course. Many thousands
>> >> >> > of accused (depending on state's legal aid) are languishing in our
>> >> >> > jails, not proven guilty yet. IF these boys are proven guilty,
>> >> >> > then of course, the end of the story.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > But besides that, it also very important for Jamia to make a
>> >> >> > social intervention into its neighbourhood. Would you rather
>> >> >> > ignore the area and the community and allow more disturbing
>> >> >> > elements to thrive there, or take a bold risk and try to eliminate
>> >> >> > them. The terror cannot be eradicated until many
>> >> >> > elements/institutio ns of the society (university, local leaders,
>> >> >> > RWAs, police, NGOs, and activists) don't come together.
>> >> >> > Unfortunately, so far there is very little trust between all these
>> >> >> > elements. Moreover, we are also trying to prove that the NGOs and
>> >> >> > activists are actually the enemies of the state.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Only the brutal force of the police can never eradicate terrorism.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yousuf
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --- On Wed, 9/24/08, srirang jha <jha.srirang@ gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > From: srirang jha <jha.srirang@ gmail.com>
>> >> >> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Jamia Millia University should be
>> >> >> > prosecuted> To: radhikarajen@ vsnl.net, reader-list@ sarai.net
>> >> >> > > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 9:23 PM
>> >> >> > > Jamia Millia Islamia is setting a wrong example by providing
>> >> >> > > legal aid to
>> >> >> > > the accused in Delhi bomb blast. The University exists for
>> >> >> > > education and
>> >> >> > > nothing else. Our constitution provides for legal
>> >> >> > > assistance to any one who
>> >> >> > > cannot afford a lawyer. So the students of JMI who are
>> >> >> > > arrested for their
>> >> >> > > alleged role in the Blast may get legal assistance from the
>> >> >> > > Legal Aid Cell
>> >> >> > > of the Supreme Court of India.
>> >> >> > > I do not understand why an intellectual like Mushirul Hasan
>> >> >> > > would indulge in
>> >> >> > > such a pastime as this. Let the law of the land take its
>> >> >> > > course.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Srirang Jha
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 6:44 PM,
>> >> >> > > <radhikarajen@ vsnl.net> wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > > Unfortunately, this attitude and action of the
>> >> >> > > institutions and NGOs which
>> >> >> > > > makes them communal. It only gives more courage to be
>> >> >> > > fundamentalists in
>> >> >> > > > secular society be it for a hindu or a muslim or a
>> >> >> > > christian, if you have
>> >> >> > > > support to be fanatic why not. !
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > Regards.
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj@ gmail.com>
>> >> >> > > > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:55 am
>> >> >> > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Jamia Millia University should
>> >> >> > > be prosecuted
>> >> >> > > > To: sarai list <reader-list@ sarai.net>
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Jamia Millia University should be
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > prosecuted<http://offstumped. nationalinterest .in/2008/
>> >> >> > 09/23/jamia-
>> >> >> > > > > millia-university- should-be- prosecuted/ >
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > *The Jamia Millia Islamia University would
>> >> >> > > provide legal aid to two
>> >> >> > > > > suspended students who have been arrested by
>> >> >> > > Delhi Police for being
>> >> >> > > > > allegedly involved in the serial blasts in the
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > capital<http://offstumped. nationalinterest .in/2008/ 09/19/war-
>> >> >> > on-
>> >> >> > > > > terror-offstumped- salute-to- indias-pride/ >.
>> >> >> > > > > *
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > **
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > *"Legal aid would be provided till they are
>> >> >> > > not found guilty," varsity
>> >> >> > > > > spokesperson Rakshanda Jaleel on Tuesday said.*
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Offstumped has unearthed the Jamia Millia Islamia
>> >> >> > > Act of
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > 1988<http://education. nic.in/cd50years /x/7H/8M/ 7H8M0101. htm>
>> >> >> > > > > .
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > There is no provision within this act for the
>> >> >> > > University to
>> >> >> > > > > provide legal
>> >> >> > > > > aid to students, period, forget personal or
>> >> >> > > university related,
>> >> >> > > > > guilty or
>> >> >> > > > > not guilty.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Its powers are very clear.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Please visit the following link for more -
>> >> >> > > > > Jamia Millia University should be
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > prosecuted<http://offstumped. nationalinterest .in/2008/
>> >> >> > 09/23/jamia-
>> >> >> > > > > millia-university- should-be- prosecuted/ >
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > PTI reports
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > *The Jamia Millia Islamia University would
>> >> >> > > provide legal aid to two
>> >> >> > > > > suspended students who have been arrested by
>> >> >> > > Delhi Police for being
>> >> >> > > > > allegedly involved in the serial blasts in the
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > capital<http://offstumped. nationalinterest .in/2008/ 09/19/war-
>> >> >> > on-
>> >> >> > > > > terror-offstumped- salute-to- indias-pride/ >.
>> >> >> > > > > *
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > **
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > *"Legal aid would be provided till they are
>> >> >> > > not found guilty," varsity
>> >> >> > > > > spokesperson Rakshanda Jaleel on Tuesday said.*
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Offstumped has unearthed the Jamia Millia Islamia
>> >> >> > > Act of
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > 1988<http://education. nic.in/cd50years /x/7H/8M/ 7H8M0101. htm>
>> >> >> > > > > .
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > There is no provision within this act for the
>> >> >> > > University to
>> >> >> > > > > provide legal
>> >> >> > > > > aid to students, period, forget personal or
>> >> >> > > university related,
>> >> >> > > > > guilty or
>> >> >> > > > > not guilty.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > > Its powers are very clear. -
>> >> >> > > > > Jamia Millia University should be
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > prosecuted<http://offstumped. nationalinterest .in/2008/
>> >> >> > 09/23/jamia-
>> >> >> > > > > millia-university- should-be- prosecuted/ >
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Get an email ID as yourname at ymail. com or yourname at rocketmail
>> >> >> > .com. Click here http://in.promos. yahoo.com/ address
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > __._,_.___
>> >> >> > Messages in this topic  (3)  Reply  (via web post)  | Start a new
>> >> >> > topic
>> >> >> > Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members |
>> >> >> > Calendar
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>> >> >> > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest |
>> >> >> > Switch format to Traditional
>> >> >> > Visit Your Group  | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use  | Unsubscribe
>> >> >> > Recent Activity
>> >> >> >       *  1
>> >> >> > New MembersVisit Your Group
>> >> >> > Yahoo! Finance
>> >> >> > It's Now Personal
>> >> >> > Guides, news,
>> >> >> > advice & more.
>> >> >> > Y! Messenger
>> >> >> > Files to share?
>> >> >> > Send up to 1GB of
>> >> >> > files in an IM.
>> >> >> > Dog Groups
>> >> >> > on Yahoo! Groups
>> >> >> > Share pictures &
>> >> >> > stories about dogs.
>> >> >> > .
>> >> >> > __,_._,___
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >      Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India
>> >> >> > Messenger at http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/
>> >> >> > _________________________________________
>> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> >> >> > subscribe in the subject header.
>> >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
>> >> >> > list
>> >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> >> >> _________________________________________
>> >> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> >> >> Critiques & Collaborations
>> >> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> >> >> subscribe in the subject header.
>> >> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> >> >> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> >> > _________________________________________
>> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> >> > subscribe in the subject header.
>> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> >> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
>> >> _________________________________________
>> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> >> Critiques & Collaborations
>> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> >> subscribe in the subject header.
>> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> >> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>