[Reader-list] On Sarai postings

[Nazneen Anand Shamsi]

A minor correction regarding my name- it's Nazneen Anand Shamsi and
not as mentioned- Nazneen Ahmed Shamsi

N

On 9/30/08, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
> Dear Radhakrishan,
>
> Many thanks for your mail, and apologies for the delay in responding
> to you, as I have been travelling and unable to access mail for the
> last week. This response (overdue) takes on board what you have said,
> but is equally relevant, I hope to much of what others, especially
> Nazneen Ahmed Shamsie and Iram Ghufran have raised in their recent
> exchanges on list protocol and the general health of the list.
>
> I am totally in agreement with all the points that you
> (Radhakrishnan) have raised in your mail. I happen to be associated
> with this list as just another ordinary subscriber since its
> inception in the spring of 2001 and though I work at Sarai, like
> anyone else with a sarai.net address, who posts on this list, I
> cannot claim to have any 'ownership' of this list. This list is yours
> as much as it is mine. No more, no less. And it will be shaped as
> much by what you do, what others do, as it will be what I, or anyone
> else from Sarai does. That is why, I am very happy (as an ordinary
> fellow list member) that you, and some others (Nazneen, Iram, Aarti,
> Inder, Kshmendra, Vivek, Monica and others) have recently voiced a
> timely concern (in different ways and in different voices) at the
> place this list finds itself in today. I would like to thank you all
> for this. And I would like to thank you personally for in some ways
> setting the ball rolling by pointing out the issues so succintly in
> your recent post 'On Sarai Postings'.
>
> Like you, I believe that there should be no hierarchy of 'issues' on
> this list. I also believe that the discussions on the list do
> unfortunately tend to get fixated on Kashmir, and on what is going on
> in Delhi. (though both of these  need to be spoken of, because
> silence on these issues is much more lethal in the long run than an
> occasional excess of speech, and we have been silent about Kashmir
> for a far longer time than we have had an excess of speech about
> Kashmir). In fact, I remember a time when I was asked (accusingly)
> why we were so 'silent' on Kashmir on the Reader List. That question
> was just as relevant then, as yours is today.
>
> Having said that, I do believe, like you, that the reader list must
> not become a 'Delhi-Centric' , 'Kashmir-Centric' or 'Anything-
> Centric' list. It would be wonderful it the list were a living
> example of the refusal to be 'centripetal' in any way. We do need to
> hear a lot more from different parts of South Asia, and from the
> world in general. We need to hear, as you rightly point out, voices
> that come from and speak to the 'North East' (where, in my opinion,
> an occupation as brutal as the one in Indian held Kashmir continues
> unreflected upon), voices south of the Vindhyas, voices that embody
> Dalit and Adivasi perspectives, voices that speak thoughtfully,
> joyously and in celebration of  queer experiences, voices that speak
> of discriminations too banal or too complex to be neatly tagged with
> any straightforward marker of identity. Then, even the discussion on
> Kashmir on this list will be placed in a better and more complex
> perspective than it is at present. And yes, then, the discussion on
> issues to do with 'nations, nationalism, the state, etc.' will be
> more nuanced and complex.
>
> We do hear sometimes from Shambhu Rahmat and Naeem Mohaiemen in
> Bangladesh, we do hear from Anivar Arvind on the situation in Kerala,
> we have heard in recent days from Lawrence Liang of the courtroom
> farce performed by the counsel for the Ministry of Home Affairs of
> the Government of India in relation to the proceedings regarding the
> criminalization of Homosexualiy under section 377 of the Indian Penal
> Code and I am learning a lot from the recent discussions on the
> financial crises in the United States from the postings that took
> place yesterday (thanks Madhumita, Isaac, and others) .
>
> And I wish that Yasir, who posts from Pakistan, would post more
> often. And we actually need to actively canvas more subscribers from
> other parts of the world, other parts of India, other parts of South
> Asia, with other interests. If you are a list member who wants to
> save this list from being monopolized by any one kind of discussion,
> why not invite friends who might live in, or be concerned about, say,
> the 'North East',  to subscibe, to post, or to post more. Why not
> invite a friend who is a musician, or an architect, or a scientist to
> share their concerns. Why not post stuff that you might find
> interesting about Iran, or China, or about Dalit poetry or about
> Queer science? (this is just a random list of things and issues that
> might be of interest, others will have other interests)
>
>   In the long history of this list (which is publicly archived) we
> had discussions on Iraq, on free software, on piracy, on demolitions
> in cities like Delhi, on town planning, on contemporary art
> exhibitions, on surveillance, on poetry, on performance and on
> censorship. I remember vividly, for instance, Yoginder Sikand's
> postings from his travels in Iran, Aman Sethi's postings on the
> working people of Delhi's streets, Zainab Bawa's postings from the
> local trains of Mumbai and Rajesh Kamat's postings on Theyyam
> performers in Kerala (and many more, particularly from the large body
> of Sarai Independent Research Fellows). More recently, we have had
> intense discussions on Nandigram, on Tibet, on software patents, and
> the beginnings of discussions on whether or how to reclaim the
> streets of our cities with 'critical mass' cycling. I particularly
> enjoyed reading the forwards on the 'particle accelerator' experiment
> in CERN. But we need more.
>
> We need to return to that wide spectrum of issues, (and to make it
> wider) so that those who seek to utilize this list for the
> perpetuation of their narrowly political or ideological agendas or
> pet personal peeves are overwhelmed by the vibrancy and depth of our
> discussion. For this to happen, you, I,  and everyone else on this
> list will need to do a little bit of work now and then. We will need
> to bring our worlds, the worlds that intrigue us, make us curious,
> make us wonder, the things that make us interesting men and women,
> come alive on this list. We need to forward and write things about
> books we read, blogs we visit, places we discover, music we listen to
> and about encounters with strangers in buses and trains. Let the
> staged and hollow violence of police 'encounters' not govern all our
> reflections on the randomness, unpredictability and uncertainty (all
> of which can also be wonderful) of daily life.
>
> And though I often find myself entangled in political discussions on
> this list, I also personally feel the need for discussions that are
> not solely about politics. And sometimes, I want to just listen, or
> read.  Our lives are much richer than the crises that are
> manufactured on a daily basis by the state and its shadowy hirlings,
> or by insurgents ready and waiting to promulgate repressive state
> apparatuses of their own at the earliest opportunity. This list was
> originally intended to be a forum for discussion, reflection,
> speculation on a whole host of matters - from everday life in our
> cities (and the recent postings from Jamia Nagar (by Shakeb, Ambarien
> and Yusuf) in the wake of the so called 'encounter' are, in my view,
> excellent examples of one kind of writing about 'everyday urban
> life') , to software, to technology, contemporary culture and
> contemporary art.
>
> Politics, terrorism, the nation-state, nationalism - these are all
> important issues, but it would be a great pity if they came to
> represent a strangling of the imagination and discursive vigour of
> this list. And yes, you are right, even these need to be discussed
> from more than a set of easily binary vantage points. So please, (and
> this is an appeal and a request to everyone on this list) please do
> not let this list be monopolized by any one set of concerns, no
> matter what they may be. If you see the 'Hindu Right' (or any other
> political tendency inimical to liberty, it could be Muslim or
> Christian Fundamentalism, or an authoritarian and paranoiac variety
> of Maoism or Stalinism, or the dull conformity of neo-liberal thought
> tomorrow just as easily as it is the Hindutva and Indian nationalist
> agenda today making a concerted effort to monopolize this list, or to
> intimidate others with their tone and the frequency of their
> outpourings, then outwit and outsmart them with dispersed but
> passionate energy, with lively discursive variety. If you (and I and
> all of us) don't, this list, like so much else that is valuable in
> our part of the world, will be poisoned, most of all, by the monotony
> of one dimensional men (and they are, in the main, men with a capital
> 'M') of one kind or another.
>
> Finally, I would like to share my feelings on the matter of tone,
> language and registers of speech. I have maintained, and maintain,
> that censoring speech is ultimately a sign of our weakness and
> defeat. I accept, with sadness, that under certain circumstances,
> when slander and attacks, especially of a personalized, misogynist
> and racist nature are made, the overall consensus of the list may
> seek to censor an individual, and that under these most exceptional
> of circumstances, this may be necessary for the sake of the
> discursive health of the list. And I hope that though we may have to,
> on occasion, 'censure', we can avoid, as far as is possible,
> 'censoring' in the future.
>
> This naturally means that when expressing (even antagonistic)
> positions, the participants on the list maintain a degree of  decorum
> and restraint about the tone and language they use, without
> compromising on the substance of their argument. Perhaps we can have
> a 'three strikes and out' kind of system, when warnings and the final
> exclusion can be decided upon by the administrator on the basis of
> complaints regarding ad hominem, racist, misogynist, homophobic,
> defamatory or libellious speech acts. I am not certain if this can be
> a solution, but I would welcome us all to think carefully regarding
> this question. All creative suggestions are more than welcome.
> Perhaps there can be a better modus than what immediately springs to
> mind, and hopefully, we will not have to censor anyone at all.
>
> Whenever this (censorship) happens, wherever it happens, I am
> personally saddened. I am saddened because it is an indication of the
> fact that no matter how hard we may try to maintain and secure a
> space for freedom of expression, all it takes is one callous,
> thoughtless, selfish outburst to destroy, what is, frankly, for some
> of us, many years of work. We are not here to indulge in our personal
> fantasies of self aggrandisement, we are here because we take the
> matter and business of a democratic space for discourse very
> seriously. We are here, because we live in societies where freedom of
> expression is under daily assault by self appointed busybodies who
> impose their all too quickly hurt sentiments with great aggression on
> sensible discursive practices. We are here because over time, this
> list has acquired a character that would be a pity to sacrifice to
> the narcissism of a few.
>
> It hurts me that we have to resort to the extremity of exclusion and
> banning to maintain the health of a list, but it also hurts me that
> the person who has been censored, or censured, brought the list to a
> situation, by their needlessly provocative and personalized form of
> speech, despite repeated prior warnings that misogyny (hateful speech
> against women on account of their sex) and enraged communal speech is
> not acceptable, and that it does not help any argument, or any cause.
>
> I find it especially intriguing that those who take great pride in
> their culture, in their civilizational ethos, in their 'national
> identity' are often the first to fling the lowest of blows. As if all
> their hallowed 'values' were bought at a discount in some jumble sale
> of sham and counterfeit goods. When faced by a depleting stock of
> reason, or of simple citable facts, some of our proud patriots do
> what comes easiest in a street corner brawl, bring out a long and
> monotonous line of abuse, ad-hominem remarks and usually,
> unadulterated misogyny. Nine times out of ten, I am sorry to say, the
> face of the pervert lurks uncomfortably close to the mask of the
> patriot, exposing by default, the pathological inner core of so much
> that seeks to flaunt itself in the name of Indian nationalism . I
> really wish it were otherwise. I would have enjoyed a better class of
> adversary to joust with.
>
> And so, we are subjected to accusations and insinuations. To slander
> and unwanted, unwarranted speculation about our personal lives,
> political motivations and sexual preferences. I have been called a
> terrorist and a procurer on this list, and others have been called
> worse, and though I have nothing against procuring, I do have a great
> deal against terrorism of any kind, including the one that displays
> its machismo on a keyboard with as much sick intensity as other kinds
> do in throwing bombs at crowded marketplaces. Destroying, or
> attempting to destroy a carefully, diligently cultivated democratic
> and open form of free expression is as heinous an act of terror as
> throwing bombs at people. I see little difference in principle,
> between the masked bomb thrower on a motorcycle, the policeman who
> pumps bullets into an unarmed individual at their mercy and a person
> who terrorizes an online community such as ours with misogyny or
> unsubstantiated and unsubstantiable accusations of 'terrorism'. If
> the earlier two forms of violence are instances of the terrorism of
> the deed, than the last is an example of terrorism of discourse. I
> say this with reluctance, with some thought, and with some
> deliberation, especially because I hate the loose, casual and
> cavalier usage of words like 'terrorism' in our public life.
>
> I believe, that in the end, it is only an open, deeply public,
> profoundly diverse form of imaginative, engaged everyday politics
> that can defeat terrorism and state terror. For the same reasons I
> believe that this list needs your active engagement, and the active
> engagement of every sensible list member, with a variety of postings,
> on different subjects, on a regular basis, and not only in times of
> perceived 'crisis',  so that those who want to hold our minds and
> attention hostage on this list are not allowed to prevail. Let's all
> make sure that this list is not 'hijacked' by anyone. So make a
> beginning Radhakrishan, (and everyone else), post something on an
> issue completely unrelated to the shadows that have hung over this
> list for so long. Dazzle us and surprise us with ordinary words,
> extra-ordinary thoughts and the pleasant hum of a good conversation.
> Let us not forget, evade or gloss over anything, no matter how
> painful, but let us not be ruled and be tyrannized by the things that
> cause us pain.
>
> thanks for your post, once again,
>
> yours
>
> Shuddha
>
> On 24-Sep-08, at 10:18 PM, Radhakrishnan wrote:
>
>> Dear Folks!
>> I want to express my anguish about the level of debate and
>> unwarranted personal attacks and slander. in fact I had raised
>> similar issues through an email to Shuddha. I am making these
>> observations with with deep regret, since I have high regard for
>> Sarai as a platform for raising and debating significant issues.
>> But since some months there has been a tendency to mock, and even
>> write responses which at times very patronizing and condescending.
>> They are not only Delhi centric but remain impervious towards the
>> site of conflict – perhaps it's an urban centric perspective which
>> doesn't take the real India in account while pontificating on such
>> issues. So there is a greater need to exercise caution and as well
>> display sensitivity while debating issues significant to our day to
>> day existence.
>>
>>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe
> in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>