[Reader-list] Varun tortured in jail: BJP

Inder Salim indersalim at gmail.com
Fri Apr 17 21:39:13 IST 2009 

Dear  Anupam

can u please forward more research material about these custodial
deaths, and blind people arrested after Riots in Gujarat,

that may really help us to know more about your real work, which can
be even beyond Gujarat.

with love
is

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:25 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Rakesh,
>
> I can understand your concerns. But I really wanted to provide some cheap
> entertainment for this cheap piece of information (sourced from a newswire).
> Sarai is indeed a forum for discussion, which was happening till recently.
>
> I really apologise if I have hurt some of your sensibilities. I also had
> some expectations from this mailing list. For a very long time, without
> posting anything, I would read and read about the kind of debates that used
> to go on. Though there were people from all political hues and colour, the
> level of discussion was fantastic. The need to participate in it came when i
> saw that the debates which i liked the most were hijacked by people, who had
> no clue. I consciously decided to partipate putting forth the arguments,
> which i thought could work and not just plain rhetoric. most of these
> arguments were not purely based on reason, which has been a major drawback,
> but mostly reactions. reactions for other people's reactions.
>
> see there was one way, like how you say, that engage with clear reasoning
> and nothing would stop you from what you want to say. but you know most of
> the people, those who talk the most, including me are irrational people. or
> lets say this is an age of irrationalism.
>
> my irrationalism is mostly a counter-reaction. it is from experiences and
> sheer disrespect for arm chair intellectualism. people in india, commenting
> about north korea, while right under their noses a kid would dare to shoot
> his classmates with his father's gun...or burning each other's shop, taking
> the advantage of the state's interpretation -- that it was a riot -- and
> then sneaking inside the car of an insurance agent to claim the damages
> (with a fair share to the insurance).
>
> that's why i said it is easier for some of us to write arguments and counter
> arguments relying completely on the aristotle's mythical square of reasoning
> -- while resting our backs -- with an option to switch off this machine
> whenever we feel like. while, for the argument, it would just float around
> for a little while, until someone else picks it up.
>
> while learning whatever little i could gather from the buddhists, most of
> them would say buddha is the inexpressible, the non-entity, the not
> non-entity, a combination of both the truths or neither any of these
> truths.
>
> my irrationalism stems somewhere from here. i do not understand, how
> religions can become such an issue for me and you. i do not understand, that
> if there is a new way to understand the world, why it has to follow the ways
> of old world. why conform to only certain things while right here, someone
> is plotting things for you, so that you react. critical religious
> re-explorations could have been done keeping in mind change of times and
> eras. why arent we doing it? why anything which is anti-Hindu is seeing as
> anti-India? i dont think gita or koran or any of the text including text
> from buddhism are flawless. they are full of flaws, reasonable or absurd.
>
> this urge to define this diverse landmass by bringing under a mythical
> umbrella of one religion is something which i find deeply problemmatic. the
> clashes might have been communal but why this "educated and learned class"
> are behaving in such a way. my irrationalism stems from here. and i would
> cheat myself if i do not reply with equal spite and gusto with which i am
> bombed with such information. i am bound to. because there is nothing i can
> take from allegation of varun gandhi being tortured in the jail. because i
> derive this pleasure from the fact that he was beaten up by the police, and
> in case he wasnt then all this is hogwash. a press reporting of such
> allegation and subsequent posting of the article by Aditya was a clear
> propaganda.
>
> however, in case of the 23 muslims from sabarmati jail, i would say, since i
> have been covering crime issues related to the jails in Gujarat, is true.
> however, these incidents are not new. the 23 muslims who were bashed up have
> been put under defunct POTA in the Godhra carnage. for the past seven years,
> these people have been waiting for justice as many of them were picked up
> randomly by the police officials. one of them, iqbal hussain mamdu, who i
> had visited is blind. he was put under the custody because someone saw him
> loitering around the Godhra Railway station on February 27, 2002. he was
> booked for shouting slogans. when i visited his family in godhra, mamdus
> stay eight kilometres away from the railway station. mamdu cannot even walk
> past his mohalla and he was booked for inciting riots and subsequent burning
> of the Godhra train. there were people like siddiq badam, ibrahim charkha,
> who died of bone TB in the jail. you can check stories online as well.
>
> and then you have someone citing varun gandhi beaten up without even having
> the proof. WHY?
>
> i hope you consider these thoughts.
>
> -anupam
>
> On 4/17/09, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> see aditya kali can only bless me if people (especially saffronised) like
>> you exist. otherwise, kali doesnt really exist. you like varun have taken it
>> upon your shoulders to decide what Godess Kali does (I think you are the
>> standing committtee chairman in godess Kali's durbar) . so what will a tiny
>> believer like me can do here.
>>
>> so much for me and my imaginative world. good night
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/17/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh anupAm I so pity you dear! You so live in the imaginative world and are
>>> fooled within with no regret at all. You have patience dude..lol
>>>
>>> By the way, the news item was published by Press Trust of India (PTI).
>>> Wonder if u've ever heard of it ?
>>>
>>> I just posted something which didn't hit the headlines. Just like in the
>>> past the fake witnesses story of so called activist Teesta Setalvad didn't
>>> show up at many placed for obvious reasons.
>>>
>>> You are so great at your rhetoric friend. Go on with it and be blessed..
>>>
>>> ahhh anupam.. come on.. you need to shoot another one liner..
>>>
>>> Hope 'Kali Mata' blesses your understanding skills.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 7:25 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dear All,
>>> >
>>> > kindly take this as my reaction to a news item published by aditya raj
>>> kaul
>>> > because it was posted for my viewing. im expressing only those emotion
>>> > which
>>> > have occured to me instantly after reading this piece. so please bear it
>>> > and
>>> > like you all bear such pieces of information.
>>> > thanking you
>>> >
>>> > anupam
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 4/17/09, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Who is 'we' here? are you threatening me? i hardly could care less.
>>> didnt
>>> > > you people are into name calling these days? varun is the best
>>> example.
>>> > >
>>> > > anyway..let me clarify..since you said dear varun who was tortured so
>>> > badly
>>> > > in the jail as per the piece of news you posted here to prove your
>>> > > allegiances to a political party, i asked you was he sterilised like a
>>> > dog?
>>> > > you could have replied in yes or no.
>>> > >
>>> > > you do not know anything about my past, so kindly keep away.by the
>>> way,
>>> > > varun is your friend? oh im very sorry for him. just make sure that he
>>> is
>>> > > alright ok?
>>> > >
>>> > > i just hope he was not sterilised. that would be such a loss to the
>>> > > country. so many like him would not be born. so many like him would
>>> not
>>> > say
>>> > > that he is a hindu, indian and what was the last one...gandhi. poor
>>> > varun.
>>> > > he could have just really gone back to london to get his real degree,
>>> but
>>> > > then he is a courageous young man. he wanted to do a pravin togadia
>>> and
>>> > > someone told me, he thought, that indians would make a t-shirt out of
>>> > him.
>>> > > but yeah all those things now are gone. he will probably be in the
>>> same
>>> > > league as rahul mahajan -- the saffron kids gone wrong club --
>>> attending
>>> > > laughter challenges. he would be really laughing. i am amazed by him.
>>> oh
>>> > > varun gandhi, i wish you hadnt lied about the LSE degree.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On 4/17/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> well it really does dearest anupam.. you know your past really shapes
>>> > your
>>> > >> present actions..
>>> > >>
>>> > >> And we can see that well enough..
>>> > >>
>>> > >> ...questions are asked 'coz of some insane one liners which is if I
>>> get
>>> > >> the
>>> > >> permission to remind you not really encouraged here on this forum..!
>>> > >>
>>> > >> so please..
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 6:55 PM, anupam chakravartty <
>>> > c.anupam at gmail.com
>>> > >> >wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> > why am i being asked so many questions...i feel bad about varun
>>> > gandhi.
>>> > >> > that's all. and i sincerely hope that he was not sterilised dog. as
>>> > you
>>> > >> he
>>> > >> > claims that he is a hindu, indian and gandhi, so if we go by all of
>>> > >> that,
>>> > >> > he
>>> > >> > is immune but if he was really touched and you know frisked around,
>>> > >> that's
>>> > >> > really sad.
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > as for you, aditya my being in past, present or future doesnt
>>> really
>>> > >> apply
>>> > >> > here. so please.
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > On 4/17/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > Anupam.. were you at some point of time in the past ? Just
>>> curious.
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 5:45 PM, anupam chakravartty <
>>> > >> c.anupam at gmail.com
>>> > >> > > >wrote:
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > > Oh so sad. i hope he was not sterilised.
>>> > >> > > > On 4/17/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >> > > > >
>>> > >> > > > > Varun tortured in jail: BJP
>>> > >> > > > >      *Press Trust Of India*New Delhi, April 17, 2009
>>> > >> > > > >
>>> > >> > > > > Alleging he was a victim of "vendetta politics", the BJP on
>>> > Friday
>>> > >> > > > claimed
>>> > >> > > > > that Varun Gandhi was tortured in jail, but he has emerged as
>>> a
>>> > >> > "strong
>>> > >> > > > > man".
>>> > >> > > > >
>>> > >> > > > > "Varun Gandhi is a victim of the vendetta politics of Sonia
>>> > Gandhi
>>> > >> > and
>>> > >> > > > > Mayawati in Uttar Pradesh. He has come out (from jail) as a
>>> > strong
>>> > >> > man.
>>> > >> > > > He
>>> > >> > > > > will file his nomination papers from Pilibhit on April 21,"
>>> > party
>>> > >> > > > > spokesperson Balbir Punj told reporters in New Delhi on
>>> > Saturday.
>>> > >> > > > >
>>> > >> > > > > Punj, who briefed the media after holding discussions with
>>> Varun
>>> > >> at
>>> > >> > his
>>> > >> > > > > residence said, "Varun Gandhi has assured that he will
>>> continue
>>> > to
>>> > >> > work
>>> > >> > > > for
>>> > >> > > > > the party with the same energy and zeal despite all this".
>>> > >> > > > >
>>> > >> > > > > The young leader will also campaign in other parts of the
>>> > country
>>> > >> for
>>> > >> > > the
>>> > >> > > > > party apart from his own constituency, he said.
>>> > >> > > > >
>>> > >> > > > > The BJP spokesperson also called upon his party colleagues
>>> and
>>> > >> > > candidates
>>> > >> > > > > to
>>> > >> > > > > "show restrain" in their speeches.
>>> > >> > > > >
>>> > >> > > > > Varun, was released on a two-week parole by the Supreme Court
>>> > >> after
>>> > >> > > > > spending
>>> > >> > > > > more than a week in Etah Jail after being booked under
>>> National
>>> > >> > > Security
>>> > >> > > > > Act
>>> > >> > > > > by the Uttar Pradesh government for his alleged hate
>>> speeches.
>>> > >> > > > > _________________________________________
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>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > >
>>> > >> > > --
>>> > >> > > Aditya Raj Kaul
>>> > >> > > _________________________________________
>>> > >> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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>>> > >
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aditya Raj Kaul
>>> _________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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