[Reader-list] Varun tortured in the jail, detention of vendetta politics.

[Rajen Uppinangadi]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Rajen Uppinangadi <
rajen882uppinangadi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>   Venu,
>
>      you have raised very fundamental question in your post, about the
> system of governance as you are well aware, that system is derived from the
> constitution which we gave to ourselves and rule of laws is the system of
> which we are all part and parcel, the system has good , bad and the ugly
> sides whether you and me like it or not, there are rules and rules are
> broken, bent, subverted whether we like it or not, deviant individuals are
> those in the system who break, bend, subvert the system of rule of laws and
> governance in this process becomes a sufferer. Thus discriminated individual
> has genuine grouse against such governance  irrespective of being theist,
> atheist, or of any faith, faith is for personal domain, not for governance,
> and caste is again by vocation of the individual, not by birth, but by his
> work. In the present context, brith does not determine the vocation and
> opportunities, education and skills are for all to have better life and
> future under good governance.
>
>  As to my dismay for conversion is for the tool it has become in the hands
> of clergies to explot the already exploited, as you rightly said, the caste
> discrimination continues after conversions,  temporary relief from poverty
> and instead if the governance gives opportunity to earn the decent living,
> get the skills and education for decent livelihood, the faith has no role
> except at home to pray as one wants., or does not want.!
>
> Regards,
>
> Rajen.
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Venugopalan K M <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> >"..What the system of governance should have been done is done by the
>> deviant individuals of the society from different faiths, which is very
>> violation of our constitution..."
>>
>> 1. Where do you get "the system of governance" ?
>>
>> 2. Why do you suggest that deviant  individuals of the society from
>> different faiths should not have their say by legal and constitutional
>> means ?
>>
>> 3. What are the features of their 'deviance' that you find so bad in
>> them, to disqualify them?
>> Having allegiance to Christianity, Islam, or Marxism, or  simply to
>> agnosticism or atheism?
>>
>> 4. Why so much of hue and cry on  proselytizing , while it is a
>> perfectly constitutional activity?
>> Even if you argue  that poor including dalits and adivasis  in such
>> cases are primarily driven by material incentives like a semblance of
>> dignity in social life(which they are doubtful of getting in most
>> cases) or even money itself, rather than spiritual concerns, your
>> violent campaigns against proselytizing would not be justified.
>>
>> As a post script, I would like to add that I have no special love for
>> Malayali people.,,On the contrary, I'd  love to talk more about my
>> less fortunate compatriots who live in constant fear of hordes taking
>> over the streets to cure the 'deviants' and to protect their 'nation'.
>> Keralites are a people comprising Ezhavas, Mujahid Muslims, Nairs,
>> Sunni Muslims,Jama-ati Muslims,Nairs,Ravuthers ,Nambiars, Vellalas,
>> Menons, Pulayas,Vannans,Parayas,Nampoothiris, Kurichyas,
>> Pisharadis,Kurumas, Brahmans,Tamil Brahmans, Chettis , Roman
>> Catholics, Protestants, Christians, Nadars Hindu and Christian, Latin
>> Catholics an Sunnis and Jamaatis and lots of such varying
>> identities.(You can of course, re-group them into four categories
>> depending on their accessibility or non accessibility to reservations-
>> FCs, OBCs, STs and ,SCs).We live here with lesser threats of bullying
>> thanks to our democratic( you can say even left) tradition.
>> Regards,
>> Venu.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Rajen Uppinangadi
>> <rajen882uppinangadi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >      Venu,
>> >
>> >       thanks for the sermons about the thoughts that I expressed which
>> are
>> > true to best of my knowledge, you have your perceptions, I do not wish
>> to
>> > contradict your perceptions, as I know that you have special love for
>> the
>> > malyalis , but for me religion or faith is personal, and bad governance
>> has
>> > made things difficult for the citizens, be they, tribals, adivasis or
>> > others, the good governance if it is in place, the faith remains where
>> it
>> > is, in private domain, a hungry stomach, neglected by the system of
>> > governance, lack of opportunities for the neglected, make them go for
>> alms
>> > distributed in the name of the only saviour, thus increasing numerical
>> > strength of the voters, thus very democratic rule is undermined as they
>> vote
>> > not for the govrnance but for the "help" given which should have come
>> from
>> > good governance, not from any faith or its propaganda.
>> >
>> >   As to violence, it is to be noted with regret that violence begets
>> more of
>> > it, whether in the name of faith or politics, and the goons who killed
>> a 82
>> > year old swami were exactly doing that so that they could polarise the
>> votes
>> > in kandhamal, just as any other party in the game of garnering votes.
>> When
>> > Singur and Nandigram happened with rapes and killings, again it was the
>> same
>> > game of polarsing the votes by the athiest sections of the society, for
>> > their plank of development on the dead bodies of poor tillers.The same
>> is
>> > the instance of Gujarath, that 59 bodies were burnt alive in a coach is
>> sure
>> > shot for more violence, and I do not justify violence from anyone as the
>> > govrrnance has failed totally to act in time, thus giving rise , rather
>> > outsourcing the delivery of justice to media and NGOs. What the system
>> of
>> > governance should have been done is done by the deviant individuals of
>> the
>> > society from different faiths, which is very violation of our
>> constitution,
>> > hope you think over these thoughts.
>> >
>> >    It is known fact that young generation is looking for jobs, and
>> gainful
>> > employments, bettering their life skills so that they can build a future
>> > for themselvs and the next generation, but when reservation is based on
>> > caste and faiths, instead of economic and need based criteria, we see
>> the
>> > lopsided development of few sections of society, discrimination in
>> > governance becomes the order, thus the issues of frustrated individuals
>> > becomes movements like naxalism, aggrieved working class becomes a trade
>> > union, thus all reflect the lack of will to have good governance in
>> society.
>> >
>> >  In democratic rule if discrimination is the order of the system, then
>> the
>> > elements of discrimination are faith, caste and region and religions.
>> Thus
>> > you can see the gaining power of clergies, in all faiths exhorting the
>> > followers to vote to those whom they consider as deliverer of good,
>> again
>> > defeating the democracy.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Rajen.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Venugopalan K M <
>> kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Mr Rajen, You seem to speak true to your conscience..but may I ask you
>> >> what authority you have to speak 'on behalf ' of people who opt for
>> >> Christianity or whatever religion, when it comes to tribals and
>> >> adivasis?Do you propose to suggest that the advivasis and tribals are
>> >> people without any right to exercise free wills? What kind of
>> >> criticism is that when you allege that  nuns of kerala drive sensual
>> >> pleasure besides monetary gains by engaging in proselytizing. What is
>> >> your locus standi  here? If you truly respect the Constitution, please
>> >> try to acknowledge that the nuns have their constitutional right to
>> >> propagate their faith as well as the tribals and adivasis do have
>> >> theirs to convert. But you simply do not have the right to stop by
>> >> force,though you can express your displeasure against proselytizing.
>> >> Instead, you would do better to ponder over why these poor people damn
>> >> the 'Hindu'-linked  identity of untouchables ,panchamas, rakshasas,
>> >> asuras, which only gives them perpetualized penury and susceptibility
>> >> to horrendous forms of institutionalized atrocities.
>> >> Lastly, what is that  you stand to loose,if at all these nuns do enjoy
>> >> sensual pleasures? I'm very happy to see this kind of hate speech in
>> >> your posts not because I like its content,but because it betrays one's
>> >> true colours, and people can always see through it...!..
>> >>  Still, you don't have any formal disagreement with the idea of human
>> >> rights, freedom of conscience, democracy and such finer aspects of
>> >> civility of mind..you would even object someone treating you as an
>> >> apologist of Godse for that reason, and that's great about you, if I'm
>> >> permitted to say. Perhaps that's the only reason why we talk to each
>> >> other.
>> >> But you seem to deny any issue of human rights existing there in
>> >> Gujarat and you don't find a case of human rights violation there in
>> >> Orissa, when christians are raped and killed for their alleged acts of
>> >> proselytizing/conversion. Your idea of human rights is punctuated with
>> >> sort of right to impunity and right to propagate hatred and violence
>> >> against christians,muslims ,adivasis,dalits and women of each tribe
>> >> including that of yours!
>> >>
>> >> Best wishes,
>> >> Venu.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Rajen Uppinangadi
>> >> <rajen882uppinangadi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Dear All,
>> >> >
>> >> > It is amusing to see the human rights activists, that too senior ones
>> >> > rushing to sabarmathi jail to see if the human rights are violated of
>> >> > bomb
>> >> > blasts accused, because they belong to a particular faith, and the
>> >> > amusing
>> >> > comments and counters in the list for another person who was detained
>> in
>> >> > NSA
>> >> > for "alleged" remarks that he would be defender of another community
>> >> > against
>> >> > traitors of the nation, even self defence in case of attack and rape
>> is
>> >> > not
>> >> > possible for the community if numerical strength is higher in
>> society,
>> >> > they
>> >> > have to "tolerate" the insults.?
>> >> >
>> >> >  As to the human rights committee and its "senior" activists, it can
>> be
>> >> > seen
>> >> > that one John Dayal, is the clergy of evangelists, rolling in foreign
>> >> > funds
>> >> > for "uplifting " of the poor souls in poor regions of India with
>> priests
>> >> > and
>> >> > nuns of seminaries from Kerala who being unemployed, find the jobs of
>> >> > god's
>> >> > work quite pleasurable with lots of sensuous pleasure factored in.,
>> >> > along
>> >> > with good pay and incentives for harvesting the souls of tribals and
>> >> > poor
>> >> > pagans.
>> >> >  As to accused in jails, who misbehave, who indulge in violence over
>> >> > trivial matters because they have support of "activists" who are
>> again
>> >> > creation for vote bank politics is the real tragedy in democracy as
>> >> > these
>> >> > human right activists are more concerned of rights of inhumans in
>> >> > society
>> >> > than the rights of victims of their inhuman acts.
>> >> >
>> >> >  Democracy where sections get extra governance at the cost of
>> >> > discrimination
>> >> > to other sections, is not good governance. This extra governance is
>> by
>> >> > and
>> >> > large due to the vote banks, because of the faith. Such a shame, and
>> as
>> >> > to
>> >> > vasectomies, and varun,   Anupam has to remember that the coersion in
>> >> > the
>> >> > emergency days led to the defeat of the party and ballot answered the
>> >> > brute
>> >> > force in most humble and non violent manner.
>> >> >
>> >> > Also, if ones parents or father is deviant it does not necessarily
>> >> > follow
>> >> > that son is also deviant. To say that he will be defending his
>> community
>> >> > against barbaric acts of fanatics is not an issue that indian media
>> >> > overhyped at the time of elections, and media has set the agenda for
>> the
>> >> > parties and hate is the media game for awards and rewards.That  a
>> >> >  nation
>> >> > with one billion people should hear and watch the discussion about an
>> >> > "honest" prime minister and a prime minister in waiting talk of weak
>> and
>> >> > strong , which are again relative subjective terms , is national
>> waste
>> >> > of
>> >> > energy, instead, if only these weak PM and strong PM in waiting used
>> >> > their
>> >> > energies to enlighten the voters with what would be issues of good
>> >> > governance in the nation, it would greatly faciltate better
>> >> > understanding of
>> >> > what type of leadership the nation is going to get.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> > Rajen.
>> >> > _________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> http://venukm.blogspot.com/
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://venukm.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>