[Reader-list] NFC-Yes!; NRO-No! Bravo Pakistan

Sun Dec 20 18:07:02 IST 2009

my point was that the military may be a holy cow, and its personnel
untouchables in their own assessment of their raw power, not because people
think so.

i see this thing happening continuously, not as a bygone conclusion. The
attempts by Rehman malik to put the intel agencies under the ministry and
ambassador haqqani towing the US line on monitoring promotions of Pak
officers by US, was just too much and outrageous enough, to only make a
circus. the attempt was too feeble, and based on twisted footing, rathetr
than political consensus. The first was refused. The second became ok when
hillary spent 3 days socializing here and local media in further comedy..

best

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:

>  Dear Yasir
>
> Holy Cow and Dirty Pig. You say the Military is neither. That would mean
> that they are following the 'on border or in barracks' role and have no say
> and do not try to impose a say in Civilian Matters, beyond the specified
> Constitutional Position.
>
> Do not agree with you on that. Publicised disagreement on 'Oversight of
> Intelligence Agencies' and 'Kerry Luger Bill' are just two examples of the
> Military throwing it's weight at the Civilians.
>
> My argument was that, (throwing their weight around aside, in addition) the
> Military continues to be a much reverred Holy Cow for many and so will stay
> outside the ambit of "Accountability", be it for Purchases, Land Grabs or
> Business Conglomerations. And that even if some consider the Military as
> Dirty Pigs, it is unlikely (at least for now) that they will be hauled up.
>
> I will agree with you, once the 'hauling up' starts.
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 12/19/09, yasir ~يا سر <yasir.media at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: yasir ~يا سر <yasir.media at gmail.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] NFC-Yes!; NRO-No! Bravo Pakistan
> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 11:51 PM
>
> rahul, kshmendra:
>
> i am not sure what K's argument is. I agree, i dont buy the coup argument.
> it is only politically obfusctory.
>
> the army is on the defensive since musharraf and hesitant to play a open
> role in politics.
>
> secondly, it has taken liberties during the war in FATA along the afghan
> border and killed indiscriniately and caused massive displacement of people
> 6-7 million ! without adequate redress or arrangement. some were made. So
> everyone here knows that its is no holy cow, which might be the impression
> across the border.  The army knows this and is trying to clean its image.
> besides its massive budget takes away from the education and health budget
> (there is 50% illiteracy !). Its proper place is the border and barrack,
> and
> so it is also not a dirty pig, while it may have to return to being a guard
> dog ! good dog !
>
> third, oversight of army is desirable and its the right direction at the
> moment. would require more stability tho.
>
> rahul, the defence minister incident is some underlings acting up, its made
> to be seen as judiciary vs executive  :)  it will be played down.
>
> best
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kshmendra2005@yahoo.com>
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear Rahul
> >
> > Seems highly unlikely. At least for now.
> >
> > The Military in Pakistan continues to be both Holy Cow and Dirty Pig. Not
> > being served in any known menu for investigation against corrupt
> practices.
> >
> > Kshmendra
> >
> > --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rahul_capri@yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rahul_capri@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] NFC-Yes!; NRO-No! Bravo Pakistan
> > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reader-list@sarai.net>>,
> "Kshmendra Kaul" <
> > kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kshmendra2005@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 10:36 AM
> >
> >
> > In the opinion of some analysts the scrapping of NRO could be the
> beginning
> > of a coup in Pakistan.
> > http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/a-military-coup-in-pakistan/
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 12/17/09, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kshmendra2005@yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kshmendra2005@yahoo.com>
> >
> > > Subject: [Reader-list] NFC-Yes!; NRO-No! Bravo Pakistan
> > > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reader-list@sarai.net>
> >
> > > Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 4:43 PM
> > > In two weeks of December 2009 there
> > > have been two major developments in Pakistan, which will
> > > have far reaching consequences in bettering the situation in
> > > a Pakistan that is otherwise currently in a lot of turmoil.
> > >
> > > The first was the consensus reached between the four
> > > Provinces of Pakistan on the National Finance Commission
> > > (NFC) formula for division of resources beteen the Provinces
> > > and the Federal Govt.
> > >
> > > It is extremely unfortunate that this significant
> > > achievement in Pakistan received scant coverage in the
> > > Indian Media.
> > >
> > > With this, the only major contentious issue between the
> > > Provinces of Pakistan is the distribution of the
> > > River-Waters and the building (or not) and location of
> > > Dams.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/19-nfc-award-hh-01
> > >
> > >
> > > The second major development is a 17 member bench of
> > > Pakistan's Supreme Court declaring Un-Constitutional the
> > > National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO).
> > >
> > > The NRO was an ordinance issued by Dictator
> > > Musharraf which allowed some people to seek amnesty
> > > in cases registered against them for various criminal acts.
> > > Increasingly the NRO was being derided and described as
> > > "Kala Kanoon" (Black Law).
> > >
> > > The Court has directed that all such cases be reinstituted.
> > > Most of those who had benefitted in 8041 such reported cases
> > > are Politicians, Bureaucrats and Businessmen.
> > >
> > > President Zardari (who received amnestys under the NRO) is
> > > protected by the Constitution of Pakistan from any criminal
> > > prosecution action against him till the time he is
> > > President.
> > >
> > > Kshmendra
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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