[Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India

Sat Feb 14 17:23:39 IST 2009

Dear Anupam

It is a good idea to first register who has written what . Otherwise one addresses comments to the wrong person. Just as you have done.

It was not I who wrote 'indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror attacks'. So your comment that you found 'my line problematic' was a misdirected comment.

I personally find nothing objectionable in the 'line' that was actually posted by Aman-Shanti: """ Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world."

It talks about 'appeal' and that too not by Indian Muslims alone but 'everyone else' too. The Aman-Shanti posting goes on to explain why there is a focussed attention by "Indian Muslims against Terrorism". They obviously recognise that acts of Terror in the name of Islam lead to Indian Muslims getting demonised.

The Aman-Shanti post  does not ask for or talk about Indian Muslims offering an apology for the acts of Terrorists so your 'apologise' comment is yet another misplaced comment.  

The Aman-Shanti posting does not talk about the "Samjautha Blasts" or about solving it 'ourselves'. You seem to have fantasised that stuff was written in the Aman-Shanti posting when it wasnt. That says a lot about you and your intentions. 

The Aman-Shanti posting is an excellent one and it was greatly satisfying that Indian Muslims have begun to articulate such positions on behalf of the community.

The "Indian Muslims against Terrorism" initiative is a laudable one and needs to be supported by Indians. Supported by every Indian who claims to love India.  

In my opinion, only those who want to see the continued harming of India and of India's Muslims will be dismissive of the Aman-Shanti posting and  be critical of the "Indian Muslims against Terrorism" initiative.

Anupam you now declare yourself to be an Indian but are you? If you are an Indian, why would you refer to Indian  security agencies as  "YOUR  security agencies" ?

Kshmendra

From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:14:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting and threatening India

dear kshmendra,

your very line that indian muslims should ask al-qaeda to stop terror
attacks is problemmatic. hindu groups were responsible for the samjhauta
express attacks as stated by police officials. are hindus ready to
apologise and appeal to bajrang dal to stop the distribution of
trishuls that has been happening in Orissa through Gujarat for killing
muslims, christians and running various rackets, urge that they should stop
doing this?

the aman-shanti mail clearly stated that they dont want pakistani agencies
to probe into samjhauta blasts saying we (indians which includes me and
you) are quite capable of solving it ourselves. where as we (indians
including me and you) dont mind FBI and Mossad coming here and solving
26/11, then also pointing severe discrepancies in our intelligence and
policing.

again, apologies for the delay and being unclear about my statements.

regards
anupam

On 2/12/09, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  Dear Anupam
>
> Would you please clarify who exactly is the "YOU" and the "YOUR" in your
> words :
>
> "Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies
> are
> not adequately equipped to investigate any case."
>
> Thanks
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> *To:* sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:06:23 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Muslims must appeal to Al-Qaeda: Stop hurting
> and threatening India
>
> dear aman, shanti, peace and other such things,
>
> i would have supported this appeal had it not used these words:
>
> "Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its
> allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world."
>
> why do indian muslims always have to give a certificate that they are
> clean?
> why? what is the difference between al-qaeda and you? both of you judging
> the plight of the identities ignoring the fact that conflicts are directed
> against weaker sections.
>
> and then you go on to say:
>
> The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus
> world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the
> outside saviors.
>
> Yes, but you prefer mossad and FBI coming over as your security agencies
> are
> not adequately equipped to investigate any case. Dont you?
>
> with best wishes,
>
> anupam
>
>
>
> On 2/11/09, Aman Shanti <peaceshantiaman at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear friends
> > Please see this news item, and also our appeal below. Kindly support
> > our appeal by sending the message across to many friends so that a
> > better sense prevails in this world:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Al_Qaeda_threatens_to_attack_India_for_the_first_time/articleshow/4109243.cms
> > ------
> >
> > Indian Muslims (and everyone else) must appeal to Al-Qaeda and its
> > allies to stop their activities of terror and violence in the world.
> > Islam does not approve the killing of innocent people. Peace-loving
> > Muslims must join hands to convince these extremist elements to desist
> > from their path of terror. Here is an appeal (which is also available
> > on facebook) that needs your support:
> >
> > Indian Muslims Against Terrorism
> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211
> >
> > Why only Indian Muslims – everyone should be against terrorism. Yes,
> > true - but this group has a certain mandate that related mostly to
> > Indian Muslims (although all others are welcome to join and
> > participate in this forum). We wish to focus on a few specific points
> > that are important to address the issue of regional terrorism. There
> > are two basic claims (made by some), which we want to address here:
> >
> > 1. The claim that "Indian Muslims are persecuted by Hindus, thus
> > world's Muslims need to save them". No, Thank you. We don't need the
> > outside saviors.
> >
> > 2. The claim that "now there are home-bred Muslim terrorists in India
> > that need to be nabbed." Ok, if this is true, then please involve
> > sincere and peace-loving Indian Muslims in the search for such
> > extremist elements in India's Muslim localities, instead of randomly
> > arresting and killing them in encounters.
> >
> > The above two points are detailed here:
> >
> > (1) There is an assumption or discourse coming out of some Muslim
> > countries (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and others)
> > that "Muslims in India are being victimized and tortured by the Hindus
> > (for example in Gujarat, Kashmir, Ayodhya etc.), and since they are in
> > great danger and helpless in the hands of Hindu extremists, it is the
> > duty of Muslims all over the world to go and save them, and revenge
> > their killings and persecution, by terrorizing the Hindus and damaging
> > the economic might of India." It has been reported that such discourse
> > is part of the training given to the terrorists who allegedly carry
> > out attacks in India. While we don't know for sure if the "terrorists"
> > are given such propaganda, but we assume that many Muslims outside
> > India may certainly have such an impression about India, as one can
> > see in some of the media in the Muslim world.
> >
> > We agree that Muslims in India have been subjected to a lot of
> > violence, torture, prejudice and injustice at various times, probably
> > in the same way as other minorities like dalits (low-caste Hindus),
> > tribals, and women etc. have been treated. But we wish to convey to
> > the "Islamic world" that WE DO NOT NEED THE HELP OF SAVIOURS FROM
> > OUTSIDE India to fight our struggles. (By struggle, we don't mean
> > violent revenge for the injustice, but a simple struggle for survival,
> > and recourse to the law, which luckily is not hopeless in India).
> > Muslims have been living in India for last one millennium, sometimes
> > peacefully and sometimes in conflict, but most of the times trying to
> > carve out ways to co-exist with fellow Indians, and make India a
> > progressive country. The contribution of Muslims to the progress of
> > India need not be repeated here. The bottom-line is: They cannot go
> > anywhere else – India is their home, and they have to struggle here
> > like everyone else. So, please don't meddle into our affairs.
> >
> > This plea is especially for those powerful institutions/organizations
> > in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan who deliberately support
> > terrorism and violence against India and Hindus. You don't realize
> > that every time there is a terrorist attack in India, although a lot
> > of non-Muslims get killed or affected, but the ultimate loss is that
> > of Indian Muslims. They are the ones who are seen more and more as
> > culprits and a subject of hate and prejudice. It is our children (with
> > Muslim names) who are taunted in Indian schools as "Pakistanis", and
> > it is we who cannot rent a house in a mainstream colony because of our
> > Muslim tag, all because of you. So, our Islamic brothers, YOU ARE NOT
> > HELPING US come out of our suffering at all. You are actually pushing
> > us further into a furnace by carrying out the terrorist attacks on
> > "Hindus". We request and plead you to have mercy on this beautiful
> > country and the world, and stop your senseless jihad. If you are told
> > that you will to go to heaven (and get houris) when you die for the
> > cause of Islam, you are highly mistaken and misled. You will surely
> > burn in hell for harming innocent people. This world is not only for
> > Muslims – it is for everyone; whatever religion or culture they may
> > follow. So, live and let live.
> >
> > (2) The above message was meant for the "terrorists" infiltrating from
> > outside India and their supporters/sympathizers. And now for the
> > "home-grown" breed of terrorists. After the horrific 9/11 attacks, it
> > was reported by many that among the Muslim terrorists operating all
> > over the world, there are actually no Indian Muslims involved.
> > (Although Indian media and intelligence department had been claiming
> > since many years that Muslim madrasas are the breeding grounds of
> > terrorism, but not a single Indian madrasa has so far been found to be
> > involved in such activity). Every one was happy and proud about the
> > news of India Muslims' non-involvement in terrorism. But suddenly,
> > after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, it was reported that Muslims residing
> > in India are becoming terrorists too, and many of them highly
> > educated-ones (engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc.). They use
> > new technology of Internet, cell-phones and deadly explosive material
> > supplied by their counterparts from across the border.
> >
> > Subsequently, hundreds of young boys from Muslim localities have been
> > arrested and tortured by the Indian police, some even killed in
> > encounters. But most of them so far have only been accused and almost
> > none ultimately convicted or punished for an act of terrorism, due to
> > a lack of substantial evidence against them. Most Muslims and some
> > human rights activists argue that those arrested or killed Muslim boys
> > have nothing to do with terrorist activities and have been framed
> > wrongly. After seeing the adverse role of the police in recent
> > incidents such as an encounter at Batla House (Delhi) in September
> > 2008 where 2 such accused (and a police inspector) were killed, the
> > Muslim community has lost all faith in the police and intelligence
> > agencies, fearing that due to their prejudice they could arrest and
> > kill any Muslim at will in their war against terror. Their
> > investigations are not transparent, their proofs are not convincing,
> > and their encounters with terrorists look stage-managed.
> >
> > However, such a reaction from Muslims is also considered by some as a
> > "denial mode", and it is suggested (especially by the mainstream
> > media) that Muslims need to come out of this mode and accept the
> > reality that home-bred terrorists do exist in the community,
> > especially since those who carried out the recent blasts (in 2008) did
> > claim that they are "home-bred" terrorists. If the internal Muslims
> > are truly involved in such activities, and if we are serious about
> > nabbing and punishing them, it would be good for the peace-loving
> > Muslims themselves to come forward and make a strategy to help
> > eradicate this menace, rather than to leave it only to the
> > state-forces. Here is some advices worth considering:
> >
> > It is accepted by the media and the police that all Muslims are not
> > terrorists, but some Muslims do resort to extremism and violence, and
> > that the peace-loving intelligentsia among the Muslim community should
> > take responsibility to root out the bad elements. This is often
> > repeated on every news channel and newspaper after every attack:
> > Secular and elite Muslims need to sift out the extremist elements in
> > their community. Well, no right thinking Muslim can deny this
> > responsibility and there are many who are eagerly ready to play that
> > role. But terrorism or extremist elements of the society cannot be
> > eradicated by only their efforts, if the govt. and the police
> > themselves have been unable to do so. They need the same logistical
> > support and resources to bring out any change in the community, which
> > the authorities use. In fact, a more practical idea today would be an
> > active coordination between the intelligence agencies, the police, the
> > judiciary and the responsible people in the Muslim community. But for
> > that to happen, the first and foremost requirement is for the
> > officials to TRUST THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY. It is a widely known fact
> > that the number and ratio of Muslims in Indian security forces,
> > police, intelligence, ministries and other important institutions is
> > very abysmal – at least not proportionate to their population.
> > Moreover, in the war against the terror, the authorities never talk to
> > the responsible people from the community leave aside involving them
> > actively.
> >
> > A specific recent case that can serve as an example:
> >
> > Take the case of the recent police-terrorist encounter at Jamia Nagar,
> > Delhi. The Delhi Police (and its Special Cell) not only did not inform
> > any of the local citizens of the area before or during the operation
> > (while they gave prior information to the media), but also made no
> > effort to communicate to the frightened local residents afterwards
> > (even during their further arrests of youngsters from the locality),
> > while the theories of the encounter being fake were spreading in the
> > locality. Their encounter of 19th September 2008 was like a very
> > specialized surgical operation done on the body without giving it
> > anesthesia or stitching it back, or allowing it to heal. This simply
> > shows that they either look at the entire community with prejudice and
> > suspicion (of harbouring the terror within), or they are not genuinely
> > interested in uprooting the nuisance of terror, and only want to
> > continue showing to the world that Muslim terrorists exist. They
> > further infuriated many Muslims the next day by showcasing the three
> > arrested suspects to the media by covering their faces/heads in the
> > stereotypical pink Arab scarves, which is a clichéd symbol of orthodox
> > Muslims or Palestinian extremists.
> >
> > If the authorities start trusting the community and seriously involve
> > them in uprooting the internal terrorism, it may show better results
> > than secret raids and encounters. Some residents of Batla House
> > gathered outside the encounter site the next day said "even if there
> > were terrorists holed up in the flat, with weapons, there was a way to
> > peacefully flush them out. After all they were not holding any
> > hostages. The police knew their location in advance. It could have
> > taken some neighbours into confidence, emptied the entire
> > neighbourhood, blocked all exit paths from the flat, and then waited
> > (even if for days) until the boys got fed up or famished, and
> > surrendered. There were lots of possibilities, if there was a will."
> > What is required today is a confidence building between the police and
> > the people, and some kind citizen's initiatives or neighbourhood-watch
> > schemes, (which already exist in some of the posh areas of Indian
> > towns).
> >
> > The smaller towns (such as Azamgarh) or ghettoized localities (such as
> > Batla House) in the cities, where such initiatives are required more,
> > are unfortunately left to rot by our civic authorities. They could be
> > the breeding grounds of a lot of anti-social elements, but the
> > authorities are equally responsible for their sorry state. Thus, a
> > long-term solution to the mushrooming of internal terror is possible
> > only with a multi-pronged approach, the first requirement of which is
> > to eradicate the corruption and communal bias in the police
> > department, and make them people-friendly. They need to involve senior
> > and serious citizens of a locality to nab the likely culprits of
> > terror in their area. But this effort should not mean vigilance and
> > security measures so strict that they affect the privacy and trust
> > between people in a locality.
> > ====
> >
> > Please join our facebook group to participate in this campaign:
> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=124494910211
> > _________________________________________
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