[Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan

Tue Jan 6 02:54:22 IST 2009

I think the artcle is a smattering fo insights but pretty realistic, instead
of the fictional realities that people in other countries have spun
primarily to fill their lack of information with self-motivated garbage.

let me add that recently the labels of taliban and prevalent modes of
feudalism (land & culture) strike me as absolutely not being medieval but of
the stone-age. one would blame the attenuated recessed structure government
but its hardly there.

so there's a real dilemma - you may forget about the rest.

taraprakash is talking through his topee.

best

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:10 AM, yasir ~يا سر <yasir.media at gmail.com> wrote:

> he's also written about the mango paiti that exploded.
>
> http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/a-case-of-exploding-mangoes-the-new-pakistani-novel/
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:57 PM, taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I found nothing illuminating in the article. Thankfully I use other
>> sources
>> except reader list for reading news.
>> Just because a journalist works for an authentic news agency, it doesn't
>> mean he/she becomes credible. What do you say about Praveen Swami working
>> for Hindu?
>> Of course Barkha Dutt or anyone in Imdian media will do better to put
>> their
>> own house in order before commenting on the ills of Pakistan.
>> I agree that it is not fair to criticize everything that comes from
>> Pakistan, I also believe that it is wrong to applaud everything that comes
>> from there.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Aman Sethi" <aman.am at gmail.com>
>> To: <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan
>>
>>
>> > Dear Taraprakash,
>> > Mohammed Hanif is in fact, the HEAD of the BBC Urdu service, - the
>> > very same service that you so approvingly quote. So I would give him
>> > far more credence than you have.  Further, since the BBC Urdu appears
>> > to be a paragon of journalistic practice - i think he is well suited
>> > to make a few remarks on the stereotypical way in which pakistan is
>> > portrayed in the Indian media.
>> >
>> > I find it really amusing that indians can dedicate reams to pointing
>> > out (in painful detail i might add) how barkha dutt or rajdeep
>> > sardesai got it wrong - but when a pakistani writes a reasonably
>> > illuminating opinion piece - he is asked to put his house in order.
>> > best
>> > a.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 3:14 PM, taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> I wonder if this article is talking about Pakistan or Pakistanis.
>> >> Generally
>> >> when media talks about a country, India, Pakistan, US etc., they mean
>> the
>> >> governments not the people. If you need to know about the nexus between
>> >> Pakistan state apparatuses and these Jihadi groups, one can just visit
>> >> www.bbcurdu.com
>> >> As far as I know, this site is not part of the Indian media. BBC Urdu
>> >> service, that has its headqurters  in Pakistan, and that was first to
>> >> send
>> >> its correspondents to Kasab's village to confirm his identity as a
>> >> Pakistani
>> >> national, is running a feature on Jihadis and Pakistan establishment
>> >> links.
>> >> The site also has an interview with Hamid Gul, former ISI chief and one
>> >> of
>> >> the founding members of these jihadi groups. On being asked "what was
>> the
>> >> relevance of these groups once the USSR forces had been defeated in
>> >> Afghanistan?" Gul says that earlier the US had an even-handed approach
>> >> towards India and Pakistan. But now there is a tilt towards India, so
>> >> these
>> >> nonstate actors are required as a deterant to India. The author of the
>> >> below
>> >> article also ignores the fact that different Jihadi groups are working
>> >> towards different agenda. So much so that Pakistan establishment
>>  differs
>> >> between good taliban, those who don't  attack Pakistani army, and bad
>> >> Taliban, those who destroy pakistani infrastructure. So much about the
>> >> homogenity of these groups. How much active these Jihadi groups in the
>> >> Indian territory, is also dependent on what kind of relationship India
>> >> and
>> >> Pakistan governments have. So much about decoupling of the Pakistani
>> >> state
>> >> and these groups. I wonder if the mango exporting author heard that
>> Navaz
>> >> Sharif interview that was not broadcast only on India media. In the
>> >> interview given to one of the Pakistani channels Sharif said that the
>> >> government had something to hide in Faridkot. I wonder if the mango
>> >> exporting author reads anything by Hoodboy and Mariana Babar, both
>> >> Pakistanis. Yes, Indian media have lots of shortcommings, but before
>> >> anyone
>> >> from Pakistan addresses them, they need to first put their house in
>> >> order.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "M Javed" <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:19 AM
>> >> Subject: [Reader-list] Ten myths about Pakistan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Ten myths about Pakistan
>> >>> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST,
>> >>> Mohammed Hanif
>> >>>
>> >>> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the Indian press can
>> >>> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one wonders what place
>> >>> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't be surprised if an Indian
>> >>> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked the same question in
>> >>> recent days. Here are some common assumptions about Pakistan and its
>> >>> citizens that I have come across in the Indian media...
>> >>>
>> >>> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's government controls the
>> >>> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or ISI controls the
>> >>> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI control the Jihadis.
>> >>> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly it's the tail that wags
>> >>> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi alliance was a marriage
>> >>> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably. Pakistan army has
>> >>> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis than it ever did
>> >>> fighting India.
>> >>>
>> >>> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not: Let's not forget that
>> >>> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired from his job as the
>> >>> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf first appeased
>> >>> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them again. The country
>> >>> he left behind has become a very dangerous place, above all for its
>> >>> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in sections of the Indian
>> >>> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh a military uniform,
>> >>> put all the armed forces under his direct command, make his word the
>> >>> law of the land, and he too will go around thumping his chest saying
>> >>> that it's his destiny to save India from Indians . Zardari will never
>> >>> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But Pakistanis do not
>> >>> want another Musharraf.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country, Pakistan is very
>> >>> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as well. General
>> >>> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the north for being
>> >>> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same time it bombed
>> >>> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and for subscribing to
>> >>> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos. You have probably
>> >>> heard the joke about other countries having armies but Pakistan's army
>> >>> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it funny.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's nuclear programme is under a
>> >>> sophisticated command and control system, no more under threat than
>> >>> India or Israel's nuclear assets are threatened by Hindu or Jewish
>> >>> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's security establishment's other
>> >>> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in the last couple of
>> >>> years have become its biggest liability.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then Pakistanis have not
>> >>> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long time that they have
>> >>> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains are late but they
>> >>> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre festivals, melas, and
>> >>> fashion models than a failed state can accommodate. To borrow a phrase
>> >>> from President Zardari, there are lots of non-state actors like Abdul
>> >>> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services, orphanages and
>> >>> shelters for sick animals.
>> >>>
>> >>> It is a deeply religious country: Every half-decent election in this
>> >>> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties have never won more
>> >>> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year Pakistan witnessed the
>> >>> largest civil rights movements in the history of this region. It was
>> >>> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But since people weren't
>> >>> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody outside Pakistan
>> >>> took much notice.
>> >>>
>> >>> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four provinces in Pakistan -
>> >>> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any popular anti-India
>> >>> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as enemy-in-chief on
>> >>> Pakistan are now more interested in selling potatoes to India than
>> >>> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida inspired jihadis who
>> >>> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as much as they hate a
>> >>> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In fact there is not much
>> >>> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark, China CDs, barbers,
>> >>> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan recently said that these
>> >>> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but nobody takes him
>> >>> seriously.
>> >>>
>> >>> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in the tribal areas of
>> >>> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or Muridke, two favourite
>> >>> targets for Indian journalists, probably because those are the cities
>> >>> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all how much training do
>> >>> you need if you are going to shoot at random civilians or blow
>> >>> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone thinks a few missiles
>> >>> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a lesson, they should
>> >>> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the map.
>> >>>
>> >>> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the agencies have had a
>> >>> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the neighbouring countries.
>> >>> Both have a dismal record when it comes to protecting their own
>> >>> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a bigger, more notorious
>> >>> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the jihad against the
>> >>> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against those very jihadis.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis visiting India till the
>> >>> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us about India's slums,
>> >>> and that there was nothing to buy except handicrafts and saris. Then
>> >>> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that nobody slept hungry
>> >>> in their country. But now, not only do people sleep hungry in both the
>> >>> countries, they also commit suicide because they see nothing but a
>> >>> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer contemplating suicide
>> >>> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her children in Karachi
>> >>> because she can't feed them: this is what we have achieved in our
>> >>> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson.
>> >>>
>> >>> The writer is the author of 'A Case of Exploding Mangoes'
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms
>> >>> _________________________________________
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>> >>
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>> > _________________________________________
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