[Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan

[Rahul Asthana]

By the way, this is the guy that the Pakistan government is supposed to be fighting.Enjoy!
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1194581
Pak allows LeT founder to import bullet proof car
Agencies 
Tuesday, September 30, 2008  22:09 IST      
Digg it
Add to del.icio.us
Google bookmarks
Yahoo! bookmarks
Add to Newsvine
Add to Reddit
 
 
ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan government has granted permission to the chief of the Pakistan-based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, to import a duty free bullet-proof Land Cruiser, worth Rs 25 million. 

According to the interior ministry sources in Islamabad, the LeT chief, who fears a possible attempt on his life by his “external enemies”, had sought the government permission to import a duty free bullet proof Land Cruiser in view of the rising number of terrorist acts across Pakistan. 

The sources said that after some lengthy deliberations on the issue, the government has decided to give him a go ahead to import a fully armoured Land Cruiser for his use from Dubai. It was for the first time that the leader of a banned jehadi group had made such a request to the government and it is also for the first time that the government has acceded to such a request. 



--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan
> To: "taraprakash" <taraprakash at gmail.com>, "Aman Sethi" <aman.am at gmail.com>
> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 6:29 AM
> I wonder what new insight can be gained by reading
> Hanif's piece.He could be naive,or maybe he
> intentionally does not want to paint the full picture.
> I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his first
> point.There is an awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack
> of knowledge viz "Nobody knows the whole truth".
> How does he know? Has he talked with everybody?
> Why has he not made the distinction between the jihadis
> that they are killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad
> of the Alqaeda flavor) and the LET(the still good jihadis
> because they are killing Indians)? Does he not know that Al
> Qaeda and LET are separate entities?
> I would comment on his other points later.People may find
> the following article informative.
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html
> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan 
> By Syed Saleem Shahzad 
> 
> KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based
> Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) were sent on a "sacrificial"
> mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were killed - as they were
> expected to be - in battles with Indian security forces
> during their three-day rampage last week. 
> 
> What did not go according to plan was the capture of
> 21-year-old Ajmal Amir Kesab, who has given details of the
> militants' plot that was hatched by elements of
> Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the
> LET, including the training of the mission's members at
> PNS Iqbal (a naval commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla
> Dam near the capital Islamabad. 
> 
> This single arrest has played very badly with the separate
> plans of
> Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda.
> And beyond the escalating tensions between India and
> Pakistan, the crucial question now arises: Will Pakistan
> succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully clamp
> down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward
> section officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga? 
> 
> "Everybody wishes for a war between India and
> Pakistan," a middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia
> Times Online on condition of anonymity. "Had prayers
> not been prohibited for the battle to happen, today all
> mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for
> battle between India and Pakistan as this is the key for
> success for the mujahideen from Afghanistan to India."
> (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer offered when there is
> extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to remove
> all fear and pressure and grant victory.) 
> 
>  The militants obviously want their war, but the United
> States now wants war on the militants, and therein lies a
> major problem. 
> 
> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
> Staff, is in Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza
> Rice, following her visit to India. Asia Times Online
> contacts say that Mullen's overriding message will be
> for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has renamed
> itself Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the
> Mumbai plot. 
> 
> ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section
> head (a major) allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in
> India to be turned into the Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda
> 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.)
> Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes
> were made at the top levels of the ISI, resulting in the
> situation in which the major was able to make his fateful
> decision, seemingly without the knowledge of his superiors. 
> Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military
> on the spot, and it will be a real test for new Chief of
> Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kiani, and the army's
> relationship with militants. 
> 
> Militant support
> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was
> in Sukkur, a city 363 kilometers north of the southern port
> city of Karachi, on November 26 and was scheduled to travel
> to Karachi. But after the Mumbai attack on November 27, he
> was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the garrison city
> twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting
> held in the Office of Strategic Organization. 
> 
> He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and
> asked what possible plans he had if India unleashed a war.
> Saeed assured that the LET would be the first line of
> defense against the Indian navy in the Arabian Sea through
> its marine operations, and that it would escalate its
> activities in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell
> militants in Pakistan's troubled North-West Frontier
> Province (NWFP) to hold their fire against the Pakistani
> security forces. 
> 
> At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes,
> all militant training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of
> Pakistan-administered Kashmir, were evacuated. 
> 
> A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing
> for journalists in Islamabad in which he said if India
> mobilized its forces along the border, all Pakistani forces
> would be withdrawn from NWFP, where they are fighting
> Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that
> hardline Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and
> others would support Pakistan if India waged war on the
> country. 
> 
> Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue
> process with the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms
> and conditions for pulling out the Pakistani troops. 
> 
> An almost perfect plan
> The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants
> (Indian Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir).
> He had cased the Jewish community center that was attacked
> and where several people were killed. His information was
> that it was being used by Israeli intelligence - Mossad. 
> 
> Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET,
> and its well-trained commandos then carried out their
> meticulously planned operation in which only 10 men held
> Mumbai hostage for 72 hours. 
> 
> Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic
> targets immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's
> arrest prevented this through his revelations of his LET
> background. 
> 
> Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not
> carried out at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army,
> or even by the ISI's high command. But there is now
> proof of the involvement of the LET and of some junior ISI
> officials. It is on this point that the US will apply
> pressure on Islamabad: it must curtail such militants. 
> 
> But there is a problem. 
> 
> Militants tighten their grip
> The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with
> militancy spilling over from the tribal areas into this
> province. 
> 
> In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60
> people from the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them
> retired army officers and members or relatives of the Awami
> National Party (ANP), which rules in the province. The
> Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations to the
> ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus. 
> 
> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply
> convoys passing through Khyber Agency en route to
> Afghanistan have come under increasing attacks. In the most
> recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers in
> supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar. 
> 
> In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with
> its well-defined vertical command structure under the single
> command of Saeed, could commit its several thousand members,
> virtually a para-military force, to the cause of the
> anti-state al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani militants. 
> 
> What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing
> this is its under-riding loyalty to and support from
> Pakistan. If the authorities start to mess with the LET,
> beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could break loose
> inside the country. 
> 
> Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be
> a severe reaction from the more hardline elements in that
> organization, as well as in the military. 
> 
> To date, the authorities have not given any indication of
> their plans. If they do indeed resist the overtures of
> Mullen and Rice, it is most likely that the Pakistani armed
> forces will withdraw from the Swat Valley and Bajaur Agency,
> leaving that area open for the Taliban-led insurgency n
> Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch
> further attacks on India, with dire consequences for whole
> South Asia region. 
> 
> Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally
> unappealing, and potentially as disastrous. 
> 
> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan
> Bureau Chief. He can be reached at
> saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi <aman.am at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Aman Sethi <aman.am at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered
> houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan
> > To: "taraprakash"
> <taraprakash at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "sarai list"
> <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 AM
> > Dear Taraprakash,
> > I have never denied the presence of militant groups in
> > pakistan. That
> > there are "links" between armed groups and
> power
> > centres in pakistan
> > is not something i am contesting - I think the
> interesting
> > question is
> > the nature of these "links" and the nature
> of the
> > state.
> > 
> > If I was to say the "Indian state" has
> > connections with terror
> > organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One
> would
> > then ask -
> > okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB
> - or
> > in the
> > case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so
> does
> > the
> > director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant
> > commander?
> > Probably not - its probably a connection between
> mid-tier
> > people on
> > both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably
> > murky waters
> > -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths
> (sorry
> > for the
> > mixed metaphor) ...
> > and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the
> complications
> > in drawing
> > straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying.
> > best
> > a.
> > 
> > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash
> > <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify
> what I
> > said in an earlier
> > > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to
> the
> > batsman as long as
> > > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and
> > irresponsible to give a state
> > > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and
> > broad minded to do so. I
> > > wouldn't object if you were to say that even
> India
> > has links with Jihadi
> > > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to
> > destabilize Pakistan. But I
> > > will definitely not agree with the claim that
> > Pakistani state has no nexus
> > > with jihadi elements which have unfurling
> Pakistani
> > flag on Red fort as
> > > their stated aim.
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman
> > Sethi" <aman.am at gmail.com>
> > > To: "sarai list"
> > <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM
> > > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered
> > houses - re: 10 myths about
> > > pakistan
> > >
> > >
> > >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank
> for
> > posting this text) and
> > >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts,
> > >>
> > >> This is in response to a conversation on the
> > authenticity/
> > >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed
> > Hanif's text that appeared in the Times
> > >> of India in the Times of India -and I have
> > appended at the end of this
> > >> mail.
> > >>
> > >> I think the reason I find Mohammed
> Hanif's
> > text (appended below)
> > >> interesting is primarily because often when
> > reading/learning about
> > >> another place - especially through the eyes
> of
> > correspondents - it is
> > >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at
> all. For
> > weeks I have been
> > >> having conversation with friends about how
> > pakistan appears to be
> > >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without
> really
> > knowing that that
> > >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in
> the
> > chasm already - what
> > >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is
> there no
> > brink, no teetering,
> > >> no nothing except to the grind of the
> everyday.
> > >>
> > >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading
> > Slaughterhouse Five -
> > >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden
> > fire-bombing in WWII where, after
> > >> describing the devastation of dresden as a
> > moonscape utterly ravaged
> > >> by carpet bombs, he writes
> > >>
> > >> "Billy's story ended very curiously
> in a
> > suburb untouched by fire and
> > >> explosions. The guards and americans came at
> > nightfall to an innn
> > >> which was open for business. There was
> > candlelight. There were fires
> > >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were
> empty
> > tables ad chairs
> > >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty
> beds
> > with covers turned
> > >> down upstairs."
> > >>
> > >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five -
> or
> > Sebal's incredible
> > >> Natural History of Destruction there is the
> > tendency to abstract trite
> > >> observations like "ordinary people
> continue
> > with their normal lives
> > >> even as the world collapses around
> them." I
> > would argue that what
> > >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant -
> is
> > that they remind us
> > >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this
> > destruction, this
> > >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed
> > Hanif's text - (without
> > >> placing it in the same league) - again gives
> us a
> > snapshot into the
> > >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan.
> > >>
> > >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts
> in
> > Delhi, Surat,
> > >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of
> 2008 -
> > one is tempted to
> > >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of
> > implosion and the
> > >> embarrassment of "state failure"
> that
> > Indians so happily foist upon
> > >> neighbouring countries. But as those living
> in
> > India will readily
> > >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no
> matter
> > what the disaster, we
> > >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman
> in
> > cricket - the
> > >> endurance of the state should be given the
> benefit
> > of doubt. Perhaps
> > >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood
> the
> > same privileges.
> > >>
> > >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers
> ends
> > something like this :
> > >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the
> americans
> > could sleep in his stable
> > >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz
> > coffee and a little beer.
> > >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to
> them
> > bedding down in the
> > >> straw.
> > >> "Good Night Americans," he said in
> > German, "Sleep well."
> > >>
> > >> best
> > >> a.
> > >>
> > >> Ten myths about Pakistan
> > >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST,
> > >> Mohammed Hanif
> > >>
> > >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in
> the
> > Indian press can
> > >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience:
> one
> > wonders what place
> > >> on earth they're talking about? I
> wouldn't
> > be surprised if an Indian
> > >> reader going through Pakistani papers has
> asked
> > the same question in
> > >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions
> > about Pakistan and its
> > >> citizens that I have come across in the
> Indian
> > media...
> > >>
> > >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or
> Pakistan's
> > government controls the
> > >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the
> jihadis. Or
> > ISI controls the
> > >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI
> > control the Jihadis.
> > >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly
> > it's the tail that wags
> > >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi
> > alliance was a marriage
> > >> of convenience, which has broken down
> irrevocably.
> > Pakistan army has
> > >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these
> jihadis
> > than it ever did
> > >> fighting India.
> > >>
> > >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not:
> > Let's not forget that
> > >> General Musharraf seized power after he was
> fired
> > from his job as the
> > >> army chief by an elected prime minister.
> Musharraf
> > first appeased
> > >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased
> them
> > again. The country
> > >> he left behind has become a very dangerous
> place,
> > above all for its
> > >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in
> > sections of the Indian
> > >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan
> Singh
> > a military uniform,
> > >> put all the armed forces under his direct
> command,
> > make his word the
> > >> law of the land, and he too will go around
> > thumping his chest saying
> > >> that it's his destiny to save India from
> > Indians . Zardari will never
> > >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had.
> But
> > Pakistanis do not
> > >> want another Musharraf.
> > >>
> > >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small
> country,
> > Pakistan is very
> > >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically
> as
> > well. General
> > >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in
> the
> > north for being
> > >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the
> same
> > time it bombed
> > >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists
> and
> > for subscribing to
> > >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban
> ethos.
> > You have probably
> > >> heard the joke about other countries having
> armies
> > but Pakistan's army
> > >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it
> > funny.
> > >>
> > >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's
> > nuclear programme is under a
> > >> sophisticated command and control system, no
> more
> > under threat than
> > >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are
> > threatened by Hindu or Jewish
> > >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's
> > security establishment's other
> > >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations,
> which in
> > the last couple of
> > >> years have become its biggest liability.
> > >>
> > >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then
> > Pakistanis have not
> > >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a
> long
> > time that they have
> > >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects.
> Trains
> > are late but they
> > >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre
> > festivals, melas, and
> > >> fashion models than a failed state can
> > accommodate. To borrow a phrase
> > >> from President Zardari, there are lots of
> > non-state actors like Abdul
> > >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health
> services,
> > orphanages and
> > >> shelters for sick animals.
> > >>
> > >> It is a deeply religious country: Every
> > half-decent election in this
> > >> country has proved otherwise. Religious
> parties
> > have never won more
> > >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year
> > Pakistan witnessed the
> > >> largest civil rights movements in the history
> of
> > this region. It was
> > >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful.
> But
> > since people weren't
> > >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans,
> nobody
> > outside Pakistan
> > >> took much notice.
> > >>
> > >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four
> > provinces in Pakistan -
> > >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any
> > popular anti-India
> > >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India
> as
> > enemy-in-chief on
> > >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling
> > potatoes to India than
> > >> destroying it. There is a new breed of
> al-Qaida
> > inspired jihadis who
> > >> hate a woman walking on the streets of
> Karachi as
> > much as they hate a
> > >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi.
> In
> > fact there is not much
> > >> that they do not hate: they hate America,
> Denmark,
> > China CDs, barbers,
> > >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan
> > recently said that these
> > >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but
> > nobody takes him
> > >> seriously.
> > >>
> > >> Training camps: There are militant
> sanctuaries in
> > the tribal areas of
> > >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad
> or
> > Muridke, two favourite
> > >> targets for Indian journalists, probably
> because
> > those are the cities
> > >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After
> all
> > how much training do
> > >> you need if you are going to shoot at random
> > civilians or blow
> > >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone
> > thinks a few missiles
> > >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a
> > lesson, they should
> > >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on
> the
> > map.
> > >>
> > >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the
> > agencies have had a
> > >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the
> > neighbouring countries.
> > >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to
> > protecting their own
> > >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is
> a
> > bigger, more notorious
> > >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during
> the
> > jihad against the
> > >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad
> against
> > those very jihadis.
> > >>
> > >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis
> > visiting India till the
> > >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told
> us
> > about India's slums,
> > >> and that there was nothing to buy except
> > handicrafts and saris. Then
> > >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride
> that
> > nobody slept hungry
> > >> in their country. But now, not only do people
> > sleep hungry in both the
> > >> countries, they also commit suicide because
> they
> > see nothing but a
> > >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden
> farmer
> > contemplating suicide
> > >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her
> > children in Karachi
> > >> because she can't feed them: this is what
> we
> > have achieved in our
> > >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson.
> > >>
> > >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of
> > Exploding Mangoes'
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms
> > >> _________________________________________
> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media
> and
> > the city.
> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
> > >> To subscribe: send an email to
> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > >> subscribe in the subject header.
> > >> To unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > >> List archive:
> >
> &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > >
> > >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the
> city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to
> > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the
> subject
> > header.
> > To unsubscribe:
> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list 
> > List archive:
> >
> &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> 
> 
>       
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to
> reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject
> header.
> To unsubscribe:
> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list 
> List archive:
> &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>