[Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan

[Aman Sethi]

i agree
a.

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:24 AM, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I think if we invest some time in thinking about the big picture and
> consciously juxtaposing it with its pixels we can perhaps arrive at a better
> understanding of the situation. What we are seeing in India and Pakistan as
> suggested by the recent spate of events in both the countries and
> interpretations of these events, is a ripening up of the tension of the idea
> of State and Statehood. This, rather unclear notion of the State in the
> subcontinent,  has produced certain dilemmas. These dilemmas are translated
> and re-phrased by actors who are not necessarily formal in their
> orientation. Hence on the index of social canvass we witness an ugly
> churning of this dialectic. As meaning makers we may invest our energies to
> arrive at this or that conclusion or we may take a position to suspend any
> judgment. This is not to suggest that Aman's point of view is invalid or
> that Rahul's position is right on target or Taraprakash is way off the mark
> but to emphasize that, far from it, perhaps we need to peer more closely and
> throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we pull out the blacks
> and whites apart.
>
> Warm regards
>
> Taha
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Aman Sethi <aman.am at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Clearly this appears to be sliding towards the type of mudslinging (or
>> murk slinging) that I have no desire to engage with. Hopefully none of
>> us will ever need bulletproof cars.
>>
>> Unlike Taraprakash I do not think that everyone who simply says that
>> maybe someone who says that the Indian Press depicts a flawed picture
>> of pakistan is somehow a "human rights activist".
>> I also find it interesting that a "human rights activist" is now
>> suddenly a pejorative tearm "You humans rights activist!" "How dare
>> you say anyone has any rights to anything at all - when people are
>> dying on the streets!"
>>
>> (Speaking of streets Interestingly, road accidents actually kill about
>> 275 people a day in India -
>> http://www.arrivesafe.org/news_detail.php?id=1058 far more than terror
>> does - but i dont see Taraprakash similarly excised by this loss. I'm
>> worried because in the road accident,even the bullet-proof gift of the
>> pakistan government will not help.)
>>
>> Of course one never wants to appear to be a pak-apologist - good
>> heavens no; or "progressive journalist" - what ever that is - i
>> presume the rest are regressive journalists. I must confess a
>> self-loathing, self-hating desire to be progressive rather than
>> regressive - but rest assured I do not demand that others follow suit.
>>
>> To restate my point - I am not saying that Pakistan and India are
>> these friendly neighbours who spend their days passing the pipe of
>> peace. Nor am I saying that the pakistan army has little or nothing to
>> do with training armed non-state actors - in fact even the pakistan
>> civil govt is not claiming that.
>> I am merely saying that at times, it is useful to actually try and
>> comprehend news that you disagree with - which is why hanif's piece is
>> of interest - not so much because of the piece - but the reactions to
>> it. which are "Hanif is lying/talking through his toupee/is a news
>> illiterate/"
>>
>> If one accepts that the civil government and the military and the ISI
>> have a fair degree of autonomy - it is possible that there is a
>> certain absence of control.
>>
>> At such a juncture - it is easy to stiffen up and say - enough is
>> enough - but that is unintelligent - and more importantly -
>> uninteresting.
>> best
>> a.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, taraprakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks for posting this article. I am sure Syed Saleem Shahzad will also
>> be honoured as someone "talking through his topee", to quote Yasir from an
>> earlier mail. Another guy who "talks through his topee" is Pakistan based
>> correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for BBC hindi. You can read another
>> report by him on
>> > www.bbchindi.com
>> > on the nexus between Pakistani state and Jihadi elements working against
>> India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does not see the water of nexus
>> between the two murky; Chachad concludes that these groups are part of the
>> state policy. I wonder if the state of pakistan will give these progressive
>> journalists, the leftist activists and human right activists of Pakistan
>> bullet proof cars.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Asthana" <
>> rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
>> > To: "taraprakash" <taraprakash at gmail.com>; "Aman Sethi" <aman.am@
>> gmail.com>
>> > Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10
>> myths about pakistan
>> >
>> >
>> >> I wonder what new insight can be gained by reading Hanif's piece.He
>> could be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want to paint the full
>> picture.
>> >> I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his first point.There is an
>> awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack of knowledge viz "Nobody knows
>> the whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked with everybody?
>> >> Why has he not made the distinction between the jihadis that they are
>> killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the Alqaeda flavor) and the
>> LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing Indians)? Does he not
>> know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities?
>> >> I would comment on his other points later.People may find the following
>> article informative.
>> >> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html
>> >> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan
>> >> By Syed Saleem Shahzad
>> >>
>> >> KARACHI - Ten young men from the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET)
>> were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to Mumbai. Nine of them were killed -
>> as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian security forces during
>> their three-day rampage last week.
>> >>
>> >> What did not go according to plan was the capture of 21-year-old Ajmal
>> Amir Kesab, who has given details of the militants' plot that was hatched by
>> elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the LET,
>> including the training of the mission's members at PNS Iqbal (a naval
>> commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the capital Islamabad.
>> >>
>> >> This single arrest has played very badly with the separate plans of
>> >> Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET and al-Qaeda. And beyond the
>> escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the crucial question now
>> arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's pressure to meaningfully clamp
>> down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI forward section
>> officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga?
>> >>
>> >> "Everybody wishes for a war between India and Pakistan," a
>> middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times Online on condition of
>> anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for the battle to happen, today
>> all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela for battle between
>> India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for the mujahideen from
>> Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a prayer offered when there
>> is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to remove all fear and
>> pressure and grant victory.)
>> >>
>> >> The militants obviously want their war, but the United States now wants
>> war on the militants, and therein lies a major problem.
>> >>
>> >> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is in
>> Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, following her visit to
>> India. Asia Times Online contacts say that Mullen's overriding message will
>> be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which has renamed itself
>> Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the Mumbai plot.
>> >>
>> >> ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI forward section head (a
>> major) allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to be turned into
>> the Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to Mumbai attack December 2.)
>> Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that changes were made at the
>> top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in which the major was
>> able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without the knowledge of his
>> superiors.
>> >> Washington's pressure now puts the Pakistani military on the spot, and
>> it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez
>> Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants.
>> >>
>> >> Militant support
>> >> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a
>> city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of Karachi, on November
>> 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after the Mumbai attack on
>> November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi, the garrison city
>> twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile meeting held in the Office
>> of Strategic Organization.
>> >>
>> >> He was told that the Indian air force was on high alert and asked what
>> possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed assured that the LET
>> would be the first line of defense against the Indian navy in the Arabian
>> Sea through its marine operations, and that it would escalate its activities
>> in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell militants in Pakistan's
>> troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold their fire against the
>> Pakistani security forces.
>> >>
>> >> At the same time, because of the threat of Indian strikes, all militant
>> training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of Pakistan-administered
>> Kashmir, were evacuated.
>> >>
>> >> A top-level ISI official then held a background briefing for
>> journalists in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its forces
>> along the border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from NWFP, where
>> they are fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially, he said that
>> hardline Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others would support
>> Pakistan if India waged war on the country.
>> >>
>> >> Further, the Pakistani security forces initiated a dialogue process
>> with the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and conditions for
>> pulling out the Pakistani troops.
>> >>
>> >> An almost perfect plan
>> >> The Mumbai attack relied on local al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian
>> Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He had cased the Jewish
>> community center that was attacked and where several people were killed. His
>> information was that it was being used by Israeli intelligence - Mossad.
>> >>
>> >> Information on such key targets was passed on to the LET, and its
>> well-trained commandos then carried out their meticulously planned operation
>> in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours.
>> >>
>> >> Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on Indian strategic targets
>> immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's arrest prevented this
>> through his revelations of his LET background.
>> >>
>> >> Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai attack was not carried out
>> at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or even by the ISI's high
>> command. But there is now proof of the involvement of the LET and of some
>> junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US will apply pressure on
>> Islamabad: it must curtail such militants.
>> >>
>> >> But there is a problem.
>> >>
>> >> Militants tighten their grip
>> >> The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of control, with militancy
>> spilling over from the tribal areas into this province.
>> >>
>> >> In the past four days, militants have abducted a record 60 people from
>> the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired army officers and
>> members or relatives of the Awami National Party (ANP), which rules in the
>> province. The Taliban have butchered many people with affiliations to the
>> ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus.
>> >>
>> >> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization supply convoys passing
>> through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have come under increasing
>> attacks. In the most recent incident, militants destroyed 40 containers in
>> supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar.
>> >>
>> >> In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa (LET), with its
>> well-defined vertical command structure under the single command of Saeed,
>> could commit its several thousand members, virtually a para-military force,
>> to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked Pakistani militants.
>> >>
>> >> What has stopped the anti-India orientated group from doing this is its
>> under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If the authorities start
>> to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all hell could break
>> loose inside the country.
>> >>
>> >> Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI, there could be a severe
>> reaction from the more hardline elements in that organization, as well as in
>> the military.
>> >>
>> >> To date, the authorities have not given any indication of their plans.
>> If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and Rice, it is most likely
>> that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the Swat Valley and
>> Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the Taliban-led insurgency n
>> Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch further attacks on
>> India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia region.
>> >>
>> >> Yet the alternative of cracking down on the LET is equally unappealing,
>> and potentially as disastrous.
>> >>
>> >> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He
>> can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi <aman.am at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> From: Aman Sethi <aman.am at gmail.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10
>> myths about pakistan
>> >>> To: "taraprakash" <taraprakash at gmail.com>
>> >>> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> >>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04 AM
>> >>> Dear Taraprakash,
>> >>> I have never denied the presence of militant groups in
>> >>> pakistan. That
>> >>> there are "links" between armed groups and power
>> >>> centres in pakistan
>> >>> is not something i am contesting - I think the interesting
>> >>> question is
>> >>> the nature of these "links" and the nature of the
>> >>> state.
>> >>>
>> >>> If I was to say the "Indian state" has
>> >>> connections with terror
>> >>> organisations in kashmir - what would that mean? One would
>> >>> then ask -
>> >>> okay - which organ of the state - so say we say the IB - or
>> >>> in the
>> >>> case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once asks - okay, so does
>> >>> the
>> >>> director of IB/ISI have direct contact with a militant
>> >>> commander?
>> >>> Probably not - its probably a connection between mid-tier
>> >>> people on
>> >>> both sides - from here on we start entering reasonably
>> >>> murky waters
>> >>> -which get murkier as one tries to plumb its depths (sorry
>> >>> for the
>> >>> mixed metaphor) ...
>> >>> and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of the complications
>> >>> in drawing
>> >>> straight lines between dots -that is all I am saying.
>> >>> best
>> >>> a.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM, taraprakash
>> >>> <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> > Dear Aman and all. I would just like to clarify what I
>> >>> said in an earlier
>> >>> > mail. One would give the benefit of the doubt to the
>> >>> batsman as long as
>> >>> > there were doubts. I think it is baseless and
>> >>> irresponsible to give a state
>> >>> > clean chit just because it sounds progressive and
>> >>> broad minded to do so. I
>> >>> > wouldn't object if you were to say that even India
>> >>> has links with Jihadi
>> >>> > elements which Pakistan claims India uses to
>> >>> destabilize Pakistan. But I
>> >>> > will definitely not agree with the claim that
>> >>> Pakistani state has no nexus
>> >>> > with jihadi elements which have unfurling Pakistani
>> >>> flag on Red fort as
>> >>> > their stated aim.
>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aman
>> >>> Sethi" <aman.am at gmail.com>
>> >>> > To: "sarai list"
>> >>> <reader-list at sarai.net>
>> >>> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05 PM
>> >>> > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes and ordered
>> >>> houses - re: 10 myths about
>> >>> > pakistan
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Dear All - particularly Javed, (who I thank for
>> >>> posting this text) and
>> >>> >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their thoughts,
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> This is in response to a conversation on the
>> >>> authenticity/
>> >>> >> "insightfullness" of Mohammed
>> >>> Hanif's text that appeared in the Times
>> >>> >> of India in the Times of India -and I have
>> >>> appended at the end of this
>> >>> >> mail.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I think the reason I find Mohammed Hanif's
>> >>> text (appended below)
>> >>> >> interesting is primarily because often when
>> >>> reading/learning about
>> >>> >> another place - especially through the eyes of
>> >>> correspondents - it is
>> >>> >> hard to imagine how anyone lives there at all. For
>> >>> weeks I have been
>> >>> >> having conversation with friends about how
>> >>> pakistan appears to be
>> >>> >> teetering on a brink of some sort - without really
>> >>> knowing that that
>> >>> >> brink is - how deep the chasm is - is it in the
>> >>> chasm already - what
>> >>> >> does it means to be in the chasm - or is there no
>> >>> brink, no teetering,
>> >>> >> no nothing except to the grind of the everyday.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> But fortunately, i have also been re-reading
>> >>> Slaughterhouse Five -
>> >>> >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the dresden
>> >>> fire-bombing in WWII where, after
>> >>> >> describing the devastation of dresden as a
>> >>> moonscape utterly ravaged
>> >>> >> by carpet bombs, he writes
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> "Billy's story ended very curiously in a
>> >>> suburb untouched by fire and
>> >>> >> explosions. The guards and americans came at
>> >>> nightfall to an innn
>> >>> >> which was open for business. There was
>> >>> candlelight. There were fires
>> >>> >> in three fireplaces downstairs. There were empty
>> >>> tables ad chairs
>> >>> >> waiting for anyone who might come, and empty beds
>> >>> with covers turned
>> >>> >> down upstairs."
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On reading texts like Slaughterhouse Five - or
>> >>> Sebal's incredible
>> >>> >> Natural History of Destruction there is the
>> >>> tendency to abstract trite
>> >>> >> observations like "ordinary people continue
>> >>> with their normal lives
>> >>> >> even as the world collapses around them." I
>> >>> would argue that what
>> >>> >> makes these texts interesting -and relevant - is
>> >>> that they remind us
>> >>> >> that this IS normal life. This horror, this
>> >>> destruction, this
>> >>> >> banality, this IS normal life. And Mohammed
>> >>> Hanif's text - (without
>> >>> >> placing it in the same league) - again gives us a
>> >>> snapshot into the
>> >>> >> normalcy of normal life in pakistan.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Reading the news on the series of bomb blasts in
>> >>> Delhi, Surat,
>> >>> >> Bangalore and elsewhere through the fall of 2008 -
>> >>> one is tempted to
>> >>> >> read the same spiral of chaos, the horror of
>> >>> implosion and the
>> >>> >> embarrassment of "state failure" that
>> >>> Indians so happily foist upon
>> >>> >> neighbouring countries. But as those living in
>> >>> India will readily
>> >>> >> testify; it certainly doesnt seem so - no matter
>> >>> what the disaster, we
>> >>> >> are firm in our belief that -like the batsman in
>> >>> cricket - the
>> >>> >> endurance of the state should be given the benefit
>> >>> of doubt. Perhaps
>> >>> >> we could accord others in the neighbourhood the
>> >>> same privileges.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> The story of the americans and the innkeepers ends
>> >>> something like this :
>> >>> >> "The Blind innkeeper said that the americans
>> >>> could sleep in his stable
>> >>> >> that night, and he gave them soup and ersatz
>> >>> coffee and a little beer.
>> >>> >> Then he came out to the stable to listen to them
>> >>> bedding down in the
>> >>> >> straw.
>> >>> >> "Good Night Americans," he said in
>> >>> German, "Sleep well."
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> best
>> >>> >> a.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Ten myths about Pakistan
>> >>> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST,
>> >>> >> Mohammed Hanif
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Living in Pakistan and reading about it in the
>> >>> Indian press can
>> >>> >> sometimes be quite a disorienting experience: one
>> >>> wonders what place
>> >>> >> on earth they're talking about? I wouldn't
>> >>> be surprised if an Indian
>> >>> >> reader going through Pakistani papers has asked
>> >>> the same question in
>> >>> >> recent days. Here are some common assumptions
>> >>> about Pakistan and its
>> >>> >> citizens that I have come across in the Indian
>> >>> media...
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis: Or Pakistan's
>> >>> government controls the
>> >>> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army controls the jihadis. Or
>> >>> ISI controls the
>> >>> >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements from the ISI
>> >>> control the Jihadis.
>> >>> >> Nobody knows the whole truth but increasingly
>> >>> it's the tail that wags
>> >>> >> the dog. We must remember that the ISI-Jihadi
>> >>> alliance was a marriage
>> >>> >> of convenience, which has broken down irrevocably.
>> >>> Pakistan army has
>> >>> >> lost more soldiers at the hands of these jihadis
>> >>> than it ever did
>> >>> >> fighting India.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Musharraf was in control, Zardari is not:
>> >>> Let's not forget that
>> >>> >> General Musharraf seized power after he was fired
>> >>> from his job as the
>> >>> >> army chief by an elected prime minister. Musharraf
>> >>> first appeased
>> >>> >> jihadis, then bombed them, and then appeased them
>> >>> again. The country
>> >>> >> he left behind has become a very dangerous place,
>> >>> above all for its
>> >>> >> own citizens. There is a latent hankering in
>> >>> sections of the Indian
>> >>> >> middle class for a strongman. Give Manmohan Singh
>> >>> a military uniform,
>> >>> >> put all the armed forces under his direct command,
>> >>> make his word the
>> >>> >> law of the land, and he too will go around
>> >>> thumping his chest saying
>> >>> >> that it's his destiny to save India from
>> >>> Indians . Zardari will never
>> >>> >> have the kind of control that Musharraf had. But
>> >>> Pakistanis do not
>> >>> >> want another Musharraf.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a small country,
>> >>> Pakistan is very
>> >>> >> diverse, not only ethnically but politically as
>> >>> well. General
>> >>> >> Musharraf's government bombed Pashtuns in the
>> >>> north for being
>> >>> >> Islamists and close to the Taliban and at the same
>> >>> time it bombed
>> >>> >> Balochs in the South for NOT being Islamists and
>> >>> for subscribing to
>> >>> >> some kind of retro-socialist, anti Taliban ethos.
>> >>> You have probably
>> >>> >> heard the joke about other countries having armies
>> >>> but Pakistan's army
>> >>> >> having a country. Nobody in Pakistan finds it
>> >>> funny.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes: Pakistan's
>> >>> nuclear programme is under a
>> >>> >> sophisticated command and control system, no more
>> >>> under threat than
>> >>> >> India or Israel's nuclear assets are
>> >>> threatened by Hindu or Jewish
>> >>> >> extremists. For a long time Pakistan's
>> >>> security establishment's other
>> >>> >> strategic asset was jihadi organisations, which in
>> >>> the last couple of
>> >>> >> years have become its biggest liability.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If it is, then
>> >>> Pakistanis have not
>> >>> >> noticed. Or they have lived in it for such a long
>> >>> time that they have
>> >>> >> become used to its dysfunctional aspects. Trains
>> >>> are late but they
>> >>> >> turn up, there are more VJs, DJs, theatre
>> >>> festivals, melas, and
>> >>> >> fashion models than a failed state can
>> >>> accommodate. To borrow a phrase
>> >>> >> from President Zardari, there are lots of
>> >>> non-state actors like Abdul
>> >>> >> Sattar Edhi who provide emergency health services,
>> >>> orphanages and
>> >>> >> shelters for sick animals.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> It is a deeply religious country: Every
>> >>> half-decent election in this
>> >>> >> country has proved otherwise. Religious parties
>> >>> have never won more
>> >>> >> than a fraction of popular vote. Last year
>> >>> Pakistan witnessed the
>> >>> >> largest civil rights movements in the history of
>> >>> this region. It was
>> >>> >> spontaneous, secular and entirely peaceful. But
>> >>> since people weren't
>> >>> >> raising anti-India or anti-America slogans, nobody
>> >>> outside Pakistan
>> >>> >> took much notice.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three out of four
>> >>> provinces in Pakistan -
>> >>> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have never had any
>> >>> popular anti-India
>> >>> >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did impose India as
>> >>> enemy-in-chief on
>> >>> >> Pakistan are now more interested in selling
>> >>> potatoes to India than
>> >>> >> destroying it. There is a new breed of al-Qaida
>> >>> inspired jihadis who
>> >>> >> hate a woman walking on the streets of Karachi as
>> >>> much as they hate a
>> >>> >> woman driving a car on the streets of Delhi. In
>> >>> fact there is not much
>> >>> >> that they do not hate: they hate America, Denmark,
>> >>> China CDs, barbers,
>> >>> >> DVDs , television, even football. Imran Khan
>> >>> recently said that these
>> >>> >> jihadis will never attack a cricket match but
>> >>> nobody takes him
>> >>> >> seriously.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Training camps: There are militant sanctuaries in
>> >>> the tribal areas of
>> >>> >> Pakistan but definitely not in Muzaffarabad or
>> >>> Muridke, two favourite
>> >>> >> targets for Indian journalists, probably because
>> >>> those are the cities
>> >>> >> they have ever been allowed to visit. After all
>> >>> how much training do
>> >>> >> you need if you are going to shoot at random
>> >>> civilians or blow
>> >>> >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar? So if anyone
>> >>> thinks a few missiles
>> >>> >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will teach anyone a
>> >>> lesson, they should
>> >>> >> switch off their TV and try to locate it on the
>> >>> map.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> RAW would never do what ISI does: Both the
>> >>> agencies have had a
>> >>> >> brilliant record of creating mayhem in the
>> >>> neighbouring countries.
>> >>> >> Both have a dismal record when it comes to
>> >>> protecting their own
>> >>> >> people. There is a simple reason that ISI is a
>> >>> bigger, more notorious
>> >>> >> brand name: It was CIA's franchise during the
>> >>> jihad against the
>> >>> >> Soviets. And now it's busy doing jihad against
>> >>> those very jihadis.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich: Pakistanis
>> >>> visiting India till the
>> >>> >> mid-eighties came back very smug. They told us
>> >>> about India's slums,
>> >>> >> and that there was nothing to buy except
>> >>> handicrafts and saris. Then
>> >>> >> Pakistanis could say with justifiable pride that
>> >>> nobody slept hungry
>> >>> >> in their country. But now, not only do people
>> >>> sleep hungry in both the
>> >>> >> countries, they also commit suicide because they
>> >>> see nothing but a
>> >>> >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A debt-ridden farmer
>> >>> contemplating suicide
>> >>> >> in Maharashtra and a mother who abandons her
>> >>> children in Karachi
>> >>> >> because she can't feed them: this is what we
>> >>> have achieved in our
>> >>> >> mutual desire to teach each other a lesson.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> The writer is the author of 'A Case of
>> >>> Exploding Mangoes'
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>>
>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms
>> >>> >> _________________________________________
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>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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