[Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10 myths about pakistan

Thu Jan 8 06:43:43 IST 2009

Dear Rahul,

How do you know that what ever I wrote was for some 'benefit'? What was my
post if not a way of joining this discussion? You may interpret my post in
what so ever a manner in which you deem fit, hence if in your judgment my
post comes as patronizing,  I say, fair enough!!!

If you think that you were trying to understand the grays, then dear Rahul,
I most humbly urge you to enlighten us more about the issue. I will
certainly respond with my questions and comments.

Kind regards

Taha

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Rahul Asthana <rahul_capri at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Dear Taha,
> What is the benefit of throwing platitudes around? Why don't you join the
> discussion and help us "to peer more closely and
> throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we pull out the blacks
> and whites apart"?
> I am sorry but you are being patronizing.What makes you think I was not
> already doing that?
> Regards
> Rahul
>
>
> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and ordered houses - re: 10
> myths about pakistan
> > To: "Aman Sethi" <aman.am at gmail.com>, "reader-list at sarai.net" <
> reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 11:54 AM
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I think if we invest some time in thinking about the big
> > picture and
> > consciously juxtaposing it with its pixels we can perhaps
> > arrive at a better
> > understanding of the situation. What we are seeing in India
> > and Pakistan as
> > suggested by the recent spate of events in both the
> > countries and
> > interpretations of these events, is a ripening up of the
> > tension of the idea
> > of State and Statehood. This, rather unclear notion of the
> > State in the
> > subcontinent,  has produced certain dilemmas. These
> > dilemmas are translated
> > and re-phrased by actors who are not necessarily formal in
> > their
> > orientation. Hence on the index of social canvass we
> > witness an ugly
> > churning of this dialectic. As meaning makers we may invest
> > our energies to
> > arrive at this or that conclusion or we may take a position
> > to suspend any
> > judgment. This is not to suggest that Aman's point of
> > view is invalid or
> > that Rahul's position is right on target or Taraprakash
> > is way off the mark
> > but to emphasize that, far from it, perhaps we need to peer
> > more closely and
> > throughly to clearly grasp the tones of grays before we
> > pull out the blacks
> > and whites apart.
> >
> > Warm regards
> >
> > Taha
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Aman Sethi
> > <aman.am at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Clearly this appears to be sliding towards the type of
> > mudslinging (or
> > > murk slinging) that I have no desire to engage with.
> > Hopefully none of
> > > us will ever need bulletproof cars.
> > >
> > > Unlike Taraprakash I do not think that everyone who
> > simply says that
> > > maybe someone who says that the Indian Press depicts a
> > flawed picture
> > > of pakistan is somehow a "human rights
> > activist".
> > > I also find it interesting that a "human rights
> > activist" is now
> > > suddenly a pejorative tearm "You humans rights
> > activist!" "How dare
> > > you say anyone has any rights to anything at all -
> > when people are
> > > dying on the streets!"
> > >
> > > (Speaking of streets Interestingly, road accidents
> > actually kill about
> > > 275 people a day in India -
> > > http://www.arrivesafe.org/news_detail.php?id=1058 far
> > more than terror
> > > does - but i dont see Taraprakash similarly excised by
> > this loss. I'm
> > > worried because in the road accident,even the
> > bullet-proof gift of the
> > > pakistan government will not help.)
> > >
> > > Of course one never wants to appear to be a
> > pak-apologist - good
> > > heavens no; or "progressive journalist" -
> > what ever that is - i
> > > presume the rest are regressive journalists. I must
> > confess a
> > > self-loathing, self-hating desire to be progressive
> > rather than
> > > regressive - but rest assured I do not demand that
> > others follow suit.
> > >
> > > To restate my point - I am not saying that Pakistan
> > and India are
> > > these friendly neighbours who spend their days passing
> > the pipe of
> > > peace. Nor am I saying that the pakistan army has
> > little or nothing to
> > > do with training armed non-state actors - in fact even
> > the pakistan
> > > civil govt is not claiming that.
> > > I am merely saying that at times, it is useful to
> > actually try and
> > > comprehend news that you disagree with - which is why
> > hanif's piece is
> > > of interest - not so much because of the piece - but
> > the reactions to
> > > it. which are "Hanif is lying/talking through his
> > toupee/is a news
> > > illiterate/"
> > >
> > > If one accepts that the civil government and the
> > military and the ISI
> > > have a fair degree of autonomy - it is possible that
> > there is a
> > > certain absence of control.
> > >
> > > At such a juncture - it is easy to stiffen up and say
> > - enough is
> > > enough - but that is unintelligent - and more
> > importantly -
> > > uninteresting.
> > > best
> > > a.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, taraprakash
> > <taraprakash at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for posting this article. I am sure Syed
> > Saleem Shahzad will also
> > > be honoured as someone "talking through his
> > topee", to quote Yasir from an
> > > earlier mail. Another guy who "talks through his
> > topee" is Pakistan based
> > > correspondent Hafiz Chachad who works for BBC hindi.
> > You can read another
> > > report by him on
> > > > www.bbchindi.com
> > > > on the nexus between Pakistani state and Jihadi
> > elements working against
> > > India. Unlike Aman Sethi, this report does not see the
> > water of nexus
> > > between the two murky; Chachad concludes that these
> > groups are part of the
> > > state policy. I wonder if the state of pakistan will
> > give these progressive
> > > journalists, the leftist activists and human right
> > activists of Pakistan
> > > bullet proof cars.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul
> > Asthana" <
> > > rahul_capri at yahoo.com>
> > > > To: "taraprakash"
> > <taraprakash at gmail.com>; "Aman Sethi"
> > <aman.am@
> > > gmail.com>
> > > > Cc: "sarai list"
> > <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:59 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes and
> > ordered houses - re: 10
> > > myths about pakistan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> I wonder what new insight can be gained by
> > reading Hanif's piece.He
> > > could be naive,or maybe he intentionally does not want
> > to paint the full
> > > picture.
> > > >> I wonder what myth is he dispelling by his
> > first point.There is an
> > > awesome catch-all phrase to cover his lack of
> > knowledge viz "Nobody knows
> > > the whole truth". How does he know? Has he talked
> > with everybody?
> > > >> Why has he not made the distinction between
> > the jihadis that they are
> > > killing the army (the good jihadis turned bad of the
> > Alqaeda flavor) and the
> > > LET(the still good jihadis because they are killing
> > Indians)? Does he not
> > > know that Al Qaeda and LET are separate entities?
> > > >> I would comment on his other points
> > later.People may find the following
> > > article informative.
> > > >>
> > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JL05Df01.html
> > > >> Mumbai after-shocks rattle Pakistan
> > > >> By Syed Saleem Shahzad
> > > >>
> > > >> KARACHI - Ten young men from the
> > Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET)
> > > were sent on a "sacrificial" mission to
> > Mumbai. Nine of them were killed -
> > > as they were expected to be - in battles with Indian
> > security forces during
> > > their three-day rampage last week.
> > > >>
> > > >> What did not go according to plan was the
> > capture of 21-year-old Ajmal
> > > Amir Kesab, who has given details of the
> > militants' plot that was hatched by
> > > elements of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence
> > (ISI) and the LET,
> > > including the training of the mission's members at
> > PNS Iqbal (a naval
> > > commando unit in Karachi) and at Mangla Dam near the
> > capital Islamabad.
> > > >>
> > > >> This single arrest has played very badly with
> > the separate plans of
> > > >> Pakistan's strategic quarters, the LET
> > and al-Qaeda. And beyond the
> > > escalating tensions between India and Pakistan, the
> > crucial question now
> > > arises: Will Pakistan succumb to Washington's
> > pressure to meaningfully clamp
> > > down on the LET - it is already banned - and the ISI
> > forward section
> > > officers whose collusion resulted the Mumbai saga?
> > > >>
> > > >> "Everybody wishes for a war between
> > India and Pakistan," a
> > > middle-ranking member of the LET told Asia Times
> > Online on condition of
> > > anonymity. "Had prayers not been prohibited for
> > the battle to happen, today
> > > all mujahideen would have been praying Qunoot-i-Nazela
> > for battle between
> > > India and Pakistan as this is the key for success for
> > the mujahideen from
> > > Afghanistan to India." (The Qunoot-i-Nazala is a
> > prayer offered when there
> > > is extreme pressure from the enemy and God is asked to
> > remove all fear and
> > > pressure and grant victory.)
> > > >>
> > > >> The militants obviously want their war, but
> > the United States now wants
> > > war on the militants, and therein lies a major
> > problem.
> > > >>
> > > >> US Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint
> > Chiefs of Staff, is in
> > > Islamabad, as is Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice,
> > following her visit to
> > > India. Asia Times Online contacts say that
> > Mullen's overriding message will
> > > be for Pakistan to get serious about the LET, which
> > has renamed itself
> > > Jamaatut Dawa, and the ISI officers involved in the
> > Mumbai plot.
> > > >>
> > > >> ATol earlier outlined how a low-level ISI
> > forward section head (a major)
> > > allowed what was a plan to attack Kashmir in India to
> > be turned into the
> > > Mumbai assault. See Al-Qaeda 'hijack' led to
> > Mumbai attack December 2.)
> > > Ironically, it was as a result of US pressure that
> > changes were made at the
> > > top levels of the ISI, resulting in the situation in
> > which the major was
> > > able to make his fateful decision, seemingly without
> > the knowledge of his
> > > superiors.
> > > >> Washington's pressure now puts the
> > Pakistani military on the spot, and
> > > it will be a real test for new Chief of Army Staff,
> > General Ashfaq Parvez
> > > Kiani, and the army's relationship with militants.
> > > >>
> > > >> Militant support
> > > >> The chief of the Jamaatut Dawa, Hafiz
> > Muhammad Saeed, was in Sukkur, a
> > > city 363 kilometers north of the southern port city of
> > Karachi, on November
> > > 26 and was scheduled to travel to Karachi. But after
> > the Mumbai attack on
> > > November 27, he was urgently summoned to Rawalpindi,
> > the garrison city
> > > twinned with Islamabad, to attend a high-profile
> > meeting held in the Office
> > > of Strategic Organization.
> > > >>
> > > >> He was told that the Indian air force was on
> > high alert and asked what
> > > possible plans he had if India unleashed a war. Saeed
> > assured that the LET
> > > would be the first line of defense against the Indian
> > navy in the Arabian
> > > Sea through its marine operations, and that it would
> > escalate its activities
> > > in India and Kashmir. He added that he would tell
> > militants in Pakistan's
> > > troubled North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) to hold
> > their fire against the
> > > Pakistani security forces.
> > > >>
> > > >> At the same time, because of the threat of
> > Indian strikes, all militant
> > > training camps in Muzzafarabad, the capital of
> > Pakistan-administered
> > > Kashmir, were evacuated.
> > > >>
> > > >> A top-level ISI official then held a
> > background briefing for journalists
> > > in Islamabad in which he said if India mobilized its
> > forces along the
> > > border, all Pakistani forces would be withdrawn from
> > NWFP, where they are
> > > fighting Taliban and other militants. Controversially,
> > he said that hardline
> > > Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud and others
> > would support Pakistan
> > > if India waged war on the country.
> > > >>
> > > >> Further, the Pakistani security forces
> > initiated a dialogue process with
> > > the Taliban in the Swat Valley to discuss terms and
> > conditions for pulling
> > > out the Pakistani troops.
> > > >>
> > > >> An almost perfect plan
> > > >> The Mumbai attack relied on local
> > al-Qaeda-linked militants (Indian
> > > Mujahideen) such as Abdus Subhan Qureshi (Tauqir). He
> > had cased the Jewish
> > > community center that was attacked and where several
> > people were killed. His
> > > information was that it was being used by Israeli
> > intelligence - Mossad.
> > > >>
> > > >> Information on such key targets was passed on
> > to the LET, and its
> > > well-trained commandos then carried out their
> > meticulously planned operation
> > > in which only 10 men held Mumbai hostage for 72 hours.
> > > >>
> > > >> Abdus Subhan had planned other attacks on
> > Indian strategic targets
> > > immediately after the Mumbai attack, but Kasab's
> > arrest prevented this
> > > through his revelations of his LET background.
> > > >>
> > > >> Washington appears to accept that the Mumbai
> > attack was not carried out
> > > at the behest of Islamabad or the Pakistan army, or
> > even by the ISI's high
> > > command. But there is now proof of the involvement of
> > the LET and of some
> > > junior ISI officials. It is on this point that the US
> > will apply pressure on
> > > Islamabad: it must curtail such militants.
> > > >>
> > > >> But there is a problem.
> > > >>
> > > >> Militants tighten their grip
> > > >> The situation in NWFP is spiraling out of
> > control, with militancy
> > > spilling over from the tribal areas into this
> > province.
> > > >>
> > > >> In the past four days, militants have
> > abducted a record 60 people from
> > > the provincial capital Peshawar, most of them retired
> > army officers and
> > > members or relatives of the Awami National Party
> > (ANP), which rules in the
> > > province. The Taliban have butchered many people with
> > affiliations to the
> > > ANP or those with relatives in the security apparatus.
> > > >>
> > > >> Meanwhile, North Atlantic Treaty Organization
> > supply convoys passing
> > > through Khyber Agency en route to Afghanistan have
> > come under increasing
> > > attacks. In the most recent incident, militants
> > destroyed 40 containers in
> > > supposedly secure terminals in the middle of Peshawar.
> > > >>
> > > >> In this anarchic situation, the Jamaatut Dawa
> > (LET), with its
> > > well-defined vertical command structure under the
> > single command of Saeed,
> > > could commit its several thousand members, virtually a
> > para-military force,
> > > to the cause of the anti-state al-Qaeda-linked
> > Pakistani militants.
> > > >>
> > > >> What has stopped the anti-India orientated
> > group from doing this is its
> > > under-riding loyalty to and support from Pakistan. If
> > the authorities start
> > > to mess with the LET, beyond the routine rhetoric, all
> > hell could break
> > > loose inside the country.
> > > >>
> > > >> Similarly, if pressure is placed on the ISI,
> > there could be a severe
> > > reaction from the more hardline elements in that
> > organization, as well as in
> > > the military.
> > > >>
> > > >> To date, the authorities have not given any
> > indication of their plans.
> > > If they do indeed resist the overtures of Mullen and
> > Rice, it is most likely
> > > that the Pakistani armed forces will withdraw from the
> > Swat Valley and
> > > Bajaur Agency, leaving that area open for the
> > Taliban-led insurgency n
> > > Afghanistan. Militants can also be expected to launch
> > further attacks on
> > > India, with dire consequences for whole South Asia
> > region.
> > > >>
> > > >> Yet the alternative of cracking down on the
> > LET is equally unappealing,
> > > and potentially as disastrous.
> > > >>
> > > >> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times
> > Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can
> > > be reached at saleem_shahzad2002 at yahoo.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Aman Sethi
> > <aman.am at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> From: Aman Sethi
> > <aman.am at gmail.com>
> > > >>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Myths, Mangoes
> > and ordered houses - re: 10
> > > myths about pakistan
> > > >>> To: "taraprakash"
> > <taraprakash at gmail.com>
> > > >>> Cc: "sarai list"
> > <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > >>> Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 12:04
> > AM
> > > >>> Dear Taraprakash,
> > > >>> I have never denied the presence of
> > militant groups in
> > > >>> pakistan. That
> > > >>> there are "links" between armed
> > groups and power
> > > >>> centres in pakistan
> > > >>> is not something i am contesting - I
> > think the interesting
> > > >>> question is
> > > >>> the nature of these "links" and
> > the nature of the
> > > >>> state.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> If I was to say the "Indian
> > state" has
> > > >>> connections with terror
> > > >>> organisations in kashmir - what would
> > that mean? One would
> > > >>> then ask -
> > > >>> okay - which organ of the state - so say
> > we say the IB - or
> > > >>> in the
> > > >>> case of Pakistan - the ISI - then once
> > asks - okay, so does
> > > >>> the
> > > >>> director of IB/ISI have direct contact
> > with a militant
> > > >>> commander?
> > > >>> Probably not - its probably a connection
> > between mid-tier
> > > >>> people on
> > > >>> both sides - from here on we start
> > entering reasonably
> > > >>> murky waters
> > > >>> -which get murkier as one tries to plumb
> > its depths (sorry
> > > >>> for the
> > > >>> mixed metaphor) ...
> > > >>> and Hanif's piece - gives an idea of
> > the complications
> > > >>> in drawing
> > > >>> straight lines between dots -that is all
> > I am saying.
> > > >>> best
> > > >>> a.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:49 PM,
> > taraprakash
> > > >>> <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>> > Dear Aman and all. I would just like
> > to clarify what I
> > > >>> said in an earlier
> > > >>> > mail. One would give the benefit of
> > the doubt to the
> > > >>> batsman as long as
> > > >>> > there were doubts. I think it is
> > baseless and
> > > >>> irresponsible to give a state
> > > >>> > clean chit just because it sounds
> > progressive and
> > > >>> broad minded to do so. I
> > > >>> > wouldn't object if you were to
> > say that even India
> > > >>> has links with Jihadi
> > > >>> > elements which Pakistan claims India
> > uses to
> > > >>> destabilize Pakistan. But I
> > > >>> > will definitely not agree with the
> > claim that
> > > >>> Pakistani state has no nexus
> > > >>> > with jihadi elements which have
> > unfurling Pakistani
> > > >>> flag on Red fort as
> > > >>> > their stated aim.
> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- From:
> > "Aman
> > > >>> Sethi" <aman.am at gmail.com>
> > > >>> > To: "sarai list"
> > > >>> <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > >>> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:05
> > PM
> > > >>> > Subject: [Reader-list] Myths,Mangoes
> > and ordered
> > > >>> houses - re: 10 myths about
> > > >>> > pakistan
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >> Dear All - particularly Javed,
> > (who I thank for
> > > >>> posting this text) and
> > > >>> >> Taraprakash and Yasir -for their
> > thoughts,
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> This is in response to a
> > conversation on the
> > > >>> authenticity/
> > > >>> >> "insightfullness" of
> > Mohammed
> > > >>> Hanif's text that appeared in the
> > Times
> > > >>> >> of India in the Times of India
> > -and I have
> > > >>> appended at the end of this
> > > >>> >> mail.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> I think the reason I find
> > Mohammed Hanif's
> > > >>> text (appended below)
> > > >>> >> interesting is primarily because
> > often when
> > > >>> reading/learning about
> > > >>> >> another place - especially
> > through the eyes of
> > > >>> correspondents - it is
> > > >>> >> hard to imagine how anyone lives
> > there at all. For
> > > >>> weeks I have been
> > > >>> >> having conversation with friends
> > about how
> > > >>> pakistan appears to be
> > > >>> >> teetering on a brink of some
> > sort - without really
> > > >>> knowing that that
> > > >>> >> brink is - how deep the chasm is
> > - is it in the
> > > >>> chasm already - what
> > > >>> >> does it means to be in the chasm
> > - or is there no
> > > >>> brink, no teetering,
> > > >>> >> no nothing except to the grind
> > of the everyday.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> But fortunately, i have also
> > been re-reading
> > > >>> Slaughterhouse Five -
> > > >>> >> Kurt Vonnegut's book on the
> > dresden
> > > >>> fire-bombing in WWII where, after
> > > >>> >> describing the devastation of
> > dresden as a
> > > >>> moonscape utterly ravaged
> > > >>> >> by carpet bombs, he writes
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> "Billy's story ended
> > very curiously in a
> > > >>> suburb untouched by fire and
> > > >>> >> explosions. The guards and
> > americans came at
> > > >>> nightfall to an innn
> > > >>> >> which was open for business.
> > There was
> > > >>> candlelight. There were fires
> > > >>> >> in three fireplaces downstairs.
> > There were empty
> > > >>> tables ad chairs
> > > >>> >> waiting for anyone who might
> > come, and empty beds
> > > >>> with covers turned
> > > >>> >> down upstairs."
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> On reading texts like
> > Slaughterhouse Five - or
> > > >>> Sebal's incredible
> > > >>> >> Natural History of Destruction
> > there is the
> > > >>> tendency to abstract trite
> > > >>> >> observations like "ordinary
> > people continue
> > > >>> with their normal lives
> > > >>> >> even as the world collapses
> > around them." I
> > > >>> would argue that what
> > > >>> >> makes these texts interesting
> > -and relevant - is
> > > >>> that they remind us
> > > >>> >> that this IS normal life. This
> > horror, this
> > > >>> destruction, this
> > > >>> >> banality, this IS normal life.
> > And Mohammed
> > > >>> Hanif's text - (without
> > > >>> >> placing it in the same league) -
> > again gives us a
> > > >>> snapshot into the
> > > >>> >> normalcy of normal life in
> > pakistan.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Reading the news on the series
> > of bomb blasts in
> > > >>> Delhi, Surat,
> > > >>> >> Bangalore and elsewhere through
> > the fall of 2008 -
> > > >>> one is tempted to
> > > >>> >> read the same spiral of chaos,
> > the horror of
> > > >>> implosion and the
> > > >>> >> embarrassment of "state
> > failure" that
> > > >>> Indians so happily foist upon
> > > >>> >> neighbouring countries. But as
> > those living in
> > > >>> India will readily
> > > >>> >> testify; it certainly doesnt
> > seem so - no matter
> > > >>> what the disaster, we
> > > >>> >> are firm in our belief that
> > -like the batsman in
> > > >>> cricket - the
> > > >>> >> endurance of the state should be
> > given the benefit
> > > >>> of doubt. Perhaps
> > > >>> >> we could accord others in the
> > neighbourhood the
> > > >>> same privileges.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> The story of the americans and
> > the innkeepers ends
> > > >>> something like this :
> > > >>> >> "The Blind innkeeper said
> > that the americans
> > > >>> could sleep in his stable
> > > >>> >> that night, and he gave them
> > soup and ersatz
> > > >>> coffee and a little beer.
> > > >>> >> Then he came out to the stable
> > to listen to them
> > > >>> bedding down in the
> > > >>> >> straw.
> > > >>> >> "Good Night
> > Americans," he said in
> > > >>> German, "Sleep well."
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> best
> > > >>> >> a.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Ten myths about Pakistan
> > > >>> >> 4 Jan 2009, 0032 hrs IST,
> > > >>> >> Mohammed Hanif
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Living in Pakistan and reading
> > about it in the
> > > >>> Indian press can
> > > >>> >> sometimes be quite a
> > disorienting experience: one
> > > >>> wonders what place
> > > >>> >> on earth they're talking
> > about? I wouldn't
> > > >>> be surprised if an Indian
> > > >>> >> reader going through Pakistani
> > papers has asked
> > > >>> the same question in
> > > >>> >> recent days. Here are some
> > common assumptions
> > > >>> about Pakistan and its
> > > >>> >> citizens that I have come across
> > in the Indian
> > > >>> media...
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Pakistan controls the jihadis:
> > Or Pakistan's
> > > >>> government controls the
> > > >>> >> jihadis. Or Pakistan Army
> > controls the jihadis. Or
> > > >>> ISI controls the
> > > >>> >> jihadis. Or some rogue elements
> > from the ISI
> > > >>> control the Jihadis.
> > > >>> >> Nobody knows the whole truth but
> > increasingly
> > > >>> it's the tail that wags
> > > >>> >> the dog. We must remember that
> > the ISI-Jihadi
> > > >>> alliance was a marriage
> > > >>> >> of convenience, which has broken
> > down irrevocably.
> > > >>> Pakistan army has
> > > >>> >> lost more soldiers at the hands
> > of these jihadis
> > > >>> than it ever did
> > > >>> >> fighting India.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Musharraf was in control,
> > Zardari is not:
> > > >>> Let's not forget that
> > > >>> >> General Musharraf seized power
> > after he was fired
> > > >>> from his job as the
> > > >>> >> army chief by an elected prime
> > minister. Musharraf
> > > >>> first appeased
> > > >>> >> jihadis, then bombed them, and
> > then appeased them
> > > >>> again. The country
> > > >>> >> he left behind has become a very
> > dangerous place,
> > > >>> above all for its
> > > >>> >> own citizens. There is a latent
> > hankering in
> > > >>> sections of the Indian
> > > >>> >> middle class for a strongman.
> > Give Manmohan Singh
> > > >>> a military uniform,
> > > >>> >> put all the armed forces under
> > his direct command,
> > > >>> make his word the
> > > >>> >> law of the land, and he too will
> > go around
> > > >>> thumping his chest saying
> > > >>> >> that it's his destiny to
> > save India from
> > > >>> Indians . Zardari will never
> > > >>> >> have the kind of control that
> > Musharraf had. But
> > > >>> Pakistanis do not
> > > >>> >> want another Musharraf.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Pakistan, which Pakistan? For a
> > small country,
> > > >>> Pakistan is very
> > > >>> >> diverse, not only ethnically but
> > politically as
> > > >>> well. General
> > > >>> >> Musharraf's government
> > bombed Pashtuns in the
> > > >>> north for being
> > > >>> >> Islamists and close to the
> > Taliban and at the same
> > > >>> time it bombed
> > > >>> >> Balochs in the South for NOT
> > being Islamists and
> > > >>> for subscribing to
> > > >>> >> some kind of retro-socialist,
> > anti Taliban ethos.
> > > >>> You have probably
> > > >>> >> heard the joke about other
> > countries having armies
> > > >>> but Pakistan's army
> > > >>> >> having a country. Nobody in
> > Pakistan finds it
> > > >>> funny.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Pakistan and its loose nukes:
> > Pakistan's
> > > >>> nuclear programme is under a
> > > >>> >> sophisticated command and
> > control system, no more
> > > >>> under threat than
> > > >>> >> India or Israel's nuclear
> > assets are
> > > >>> threatened by Hindu or Jewish
> > > >>> >> extremists. For a long time
> > Pakistan's
> > > >>> security establishment's other
> > > >>> >> strategic asset was jihadi
> > organisations, which in
> > > >>> the last couple of
> > > >>> >> years have become its biggest
> > liability.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Pakistan is a failed state: If
> > it is, then
> > > >>> Pakistanis have not
> > > >>> >> noticed. Or they have lived in
> > it for such a long
> > > >>> time that they have
> > > >>> >> become used to its dysfunctional
> > aspects. Trains
> > > >>> are late but they
> > > >>> >> turn up, there are more VJs,
> > DJs, theatre
> > > >>> festivals, melas, and
> > > >>> >> fashion models than a failed
> > state can
> > > >>> accommodate. To borrow a phrase
> > > >>> >> from President Zardari, there
> > are lots of
> > > >>> non-state actors like Abdul
> > > >>> >> Sattar Edhi who provide
> > emergency health services,
> > > >>> orphanages and
> > > >>> >> shelters for sick animals.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> It is a deeply religious
> > country: Every
> > > >>> half-decent election in this
> > > >>> >> country has proved otherwise.
> > Religious parties
> > > >>> have never won more
> > > >>> >> than a fraction of popular vote.
> > Last year
> > > >>> Pakistan witnessed the
> > > >>> >> largest civil rights movements
> > in the history of
> > > >>> this region. It was
> > > >>> >> spontaneous, secular and
> > entirely peaceful. But
> > > >>> since people weren't
> > > >>> >> raising anti-India or
> > anti-America slogans, nobody
> > > >>> outside Pakistan
> > > >>> >> took much notice.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> All Pakistanis hate India: Three
> > out of four
> > > >>> provinces in Pakistan -
> > > >>> >> Sindh, Baluchistan, NWFP - have
> > never had any
> > > >>> popular anti-India
> > > >>> >> sentiment ever. Punjabis who did
> > impose India as
> > > >>> enemy-in-chief on
> > > >>> >> Pakistan are now more interested
> > in selling
> > > >>> potatoes to India than
> > > >>> >> destroying it. There is a new
> > breed of al-Qaida
> > > >>> inspired jihadis who
> > > >>> >> hate a woman walking on the
> > streets of Karachi as
> > > >>> much as they hate a
> > > >>> >> woman driving a car on the
> > streets of Delhi. In
> > > >>> fact there is not much
> > > >>> >> that they do not hate: they hate
> > America, Denmark,
> > > >>> China CDs, barbers,
> > > >>> >> DVDs , television, even
> > football. Imran Khan
> > > >>> recently said that these
> > > >>> >> jihadis will never attack a
> > cricket match but
> > > >>> nobody takes him
> > > >>> >> seriously.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Training camps: There are
> > militant sanctuaries in
> > > >>> the tribal areas of
> > > >>> >> Pakistan but definitely not in
> > Muzaffarabad or
> > > >>> Muridke, two favourite
> > > >>> >> targets for Indian journalists,
> > probably because
> > > >>> those are the cities
> > > >>> >> they have ever been allowed to
> > visit. After all
> > > >>> how much training do
> > > >>> >> you need if you are going to
> > shoot at random
> > > >>> civilians or blow
> > > >>> >> yourself up in a crowded bazaar?
> > So if anyone
> > > >>> thinks a few missiles
> > > >>> >> targeted at Muzaffarabad will
> > teach anyone a
> > > >>> lesson, they should
> > > >>> >> switch off their TV and try to
> > locate it on the
> > > >>> map.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> RAW would never do what ISI
> > does: Both the
> > > >>> agencies have had a
> > > >>> >> brilliant record of creating
> > mayhem in the
> > > >>> neighbouring countries.
> > > >>> >> Both have a dismal record when
> > it comes to
> > > >>> protecting their own
> > > >>> >> people. There is a simple reason
> > that ISI is a
> > > >>> bigger, more notorious
> > > >>> >> brand name: It was CIA's
> > franchise during the
> > > >>> jihad against the
> > > >>> >> Soviets. And now it's busy
> > doing jihad against
> > > >>> those very jihadis.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> Pakistan is poor, India is rich:
> > Pakistanis
> > > >>> visiting India till the
> > > >>> >> mid-eighties came back very
> > smug. They told us
> > > >>> about India's slums,
> > > >>> >> and that there was nothing to
> > buy except
> > > >>> handicrafts and saris. Then
> > > >>> >> Pakistanis could say with
> > justifiable pride that
> > > >>> nobody slept hungry
> > > >>> >> in their country. But now, not
> > only do people
> > > >>> sleep hungry in both the
> > > >>> >> countries, they also commit
> > suicide because they
> > > >>> see nothing but a
> > > >>> >> lifetime of hunger ahead. A
> > debt-ridden farmer
> > > >>> contemplating suicide
> > > >>> >> in Maharashtra and a mother who
> > abandons her
> > > >>> children in Karachi
> > > >>> >> because she can't feed them:
> > this is what we
> > > >>> have achieved in our
> > > >>> >> mutual desire to teach each
> > other a lesson.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >> The writer is the author of
> > 'A Case of
> > > >>> Exploding Mangoes'
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_TOI/Ten_myths_about_Pakistan/articleshow/3932145.cms
> > > >>> >>
> > _________________________________________
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> > list on media and
> > > >>> the city.
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> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> _________________________________________
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> > > >>> Critiques & Collaborations
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > _________________________________________
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