[Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure...

[anupam chakravartty]

Dear Aditya,

I have nothing much to add to your ignorance. Thanks for advertising Baba
Ramdev on Sarai. Perhaps no one tried it befoe in this group. But you have
managed it. Why dont you also start supplying his press notes here? How much
does he pay to talk such rubbish or rather how much do you get to spread
Ramdev's message?

And what a hypocrite you are: on one hand you advertise this quack of a guy
who had filed an application in the supreme court against decriminalisation
of homosexuality, while on the other hand, you are now denying that you
never said anything about homosexuality being disease but using Baba Ramdev
as your proof you have been spreading distasteful arguments on this reader's
list. its been noticed mr kaul. if speaking against unwarranted attacks on
people on the group is incorrect, then there is a moderator here and i
request his/her intervention on this issue.

-anupam


On 7/11/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Anupam
>
> You have again resorted to spreading rumours, getting to conclusions about
> a
> public/religious figure and again without any substantial proof or argument
> to back your claims. If you have personal differences with him, that is an
> altogether different case. We don't care about it. Be mature in
> understanding his following and the service he has been giving to millions
> worldwide. Not alone through his medicines of Patanjali, events in
> different
> global cities and TV programmes but through his motivation of doing Yoga.
> It
> has brought a drastic change in both rural areas and cities, if at all you
> have capability of studying the positive change you should know. Even if he
> charges some money for his medicines, why does it bother you so much ? It
> is
> a very right step.
>
> Yes even if Baba Ramdev is doing what people want him to do, it is service
> to the society. He is a charismatic Guru and millions of people trust him.
> You don't need to worry so much about him. You can take care of your
> health.
> Comparing him only makes your point weak.
>
> You have a dirty habit of speaking on my behalf without even confirming my
> opinion on the issue. I never said Homosexuality is a disease. This is
> something growing in your mind as I can read and understand. Pathetic of
> you. Grow up Anupam... will you ?
>
> I reiterate that there is a consensus that decriminalization is a very
> important and positive step taken by the Delhi High Court but there are
> serious issues with legalization. Homosexuality need not be legal. Not just
> all religions are united against it, majority society is. You can't bring
> in
> a law out of nowhere and force it on the people just because a few hundred
> people dance, sing and shout on roads on a particular holiday every year. I
> respect Homosexuals, they need to be treated with care and compassion. They
> are just like any other Human being.
>
> I think Anupam, you are still stuck in your four walls of ignorance. Either
> you yourself face some trauma, with which I sympathise or else you are just
> ignorant from childhood. Anyhow...I wish good for you.
>
> Ramdev and many others have challenged the Delhi HC Verdict in the Supreme
> Court, nobody has stopped Anupam Chakravartty from doing the same. Don't be
> sitting on a chair and typing with no rest, go and file another petition if
> you really feel about the issue.
>
> Difference of opinion will remain. But your posts here talk about your
> arrogance more than the original issue.
>
> Section 377 IPC is here to stay...just some more time. :)
>
> love
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:56 AM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear Aditya,
> >
> > Let me be very clear about this. You cite the social service done by this
> > Ramdev character. I agree he is doing a good job out of the shivirs,
> > precisely by making his moolah. and you know it very well with the kind
> > of money he charges from people. He has cured 1000s of people so has
> > several
> > doctors in the rural india who also get a steady stream of visitors. now
> > Ramdev wants to contest the Delhi High Court order on Section 377 which
> > decriminalises homosexuality in India. Ramdev is a healer, if i were to
> say
> > so it benefits him to put his message across to the people -- his
> audience
> > that homosexuality is a disease. By stating that homosexuality is a
> > disease,
> > now he will be making more money out of it just like several doctors and
> > pharmaceutical companies, computer virus protection softwares mint money
> in
> > the name of diseases and various ailment. contrary to your belief,
> > Ramdev has no other motive, not even for the cause of the larger indian
> > society, which is only around 60 % literate, but to mint money by
> 'curing'
> > the cases of homosexuality and turning them "straight" with his
> medicines.
> > obviously he wont be able to cheat his patients for a long time. since
> you
> > are citing Brinda and Co and their so-called campaign backed by
> > multinationals, it is the same tendency of this Ramdev fellow to mint
> money
> > by calling homosexuality a disease.
> >
> > i think you are not capable of arguing so you resort to name-calling and
> ad
> > hominem attacks. so you better work on it pal. on everyone here instead
> of
> > arguing your case. you havent been able to provide any kind of proof that
> > homosexuality is a disease.
> >
> > -anupam
> >
> >
> > On 7/11/09, Manak Matiyani <manakmatiyani at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear All,
> > > As the debate on homosexuality in the indian media gets more and more
> > > ridiculous we all wait for the government to finally take a stand.
> > Although
> > > one hears now that the center would ask for an extension to file their
> > > reply
> > > to the supreme court. The heated public opinions makes it difficult for
> > > them
> > > to support the high court decision without losing the support of
> > religious
> > > leaders.
> > >
> > > Personally, I feel baba Ramdev seems to be against sex in general and
> > hopes
> > > to cure homosexuals well enough to produce children in dysfunctional,
> > > loveless families. The problem with current religious leaders is that
> > they
> > > want to brush the fact of sex and sexuality under the carpet, or in
> this
> > > case, into the closet as though finding joy in sex itself were the
> > disease.
> > > "Love your friends, love your parents, love many men, but there should
> be
> > > no
> > > sexual desire (vaasana) in that " says the Baba. And this call for a
> > > sexless
> > > life seems to find many followers as long as their own joys and acts
> are
> > > covered by the stamp of heterosexual marriage.  Frankly, i've heard the
> > sex
> > > for procreation lectures for a long time and and i refuse to buy it.
> Last
> > > time i checked, condom's were not freely available in nature, yet the
> > > government distributes them and for good reason. Our ideas or sex,
> > > sexuality
> > > and love must all evolve with the time, as has baba Ramdev's yoga!
> > >
> > > I wonder how firmly the moral fabric of a society balancing on the thin
> > > string of lies and deception will hold. What good will the
> > criminalisation
> > > of homosexuality would achieve other than forcing a large section of
> the
> > > population back into a life of fear and unable to participate in the
> joys
> > > of
> > > loving and living freely. The self appointed custodians of social and
> > moral
> > > fabric should perhaps engage themselves with the many other wrongs of
> our
> > > society and leave the few rights alone.
> > >
> > > The one thing that is clear is that  Ramdev's petition is
> scientifically
> > > ill
> > > founded and weak, but would go a long way riding on his popularity and
> > > public appeal. Today, in psychology it would be malpractice to say
> > > homosexuality is a disease that can be cured. Medical science has for
> > long
> > > cleared that doubt for all of us. The reading down of an archaic law
> was
> > > another positive step in the direction of a free and just society. The
> > > social stigma remains, but perhaps that too would gradually change.
> > > Religion
> > > and religious leaders can only guide the lives of their followers and
> not
> > > dictate legislation.
> > >
> > > My knowledge of yoga, indian scriptures and scientific basis for
> > > homosexuality is very limited, so i thought it wise to post an
> insightful
> > > article that i came across to add to this discussion.
> > >
> > > Here's Devdutt Pattanaik's response to the baba's tirade.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/jul/10/baba-ramdev-is-wrong-homosexuality-is-no-disease.htm
> > >
> > > Manak.
> > >
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > *Baba Ramdev is wrong, homosexuality is no disease*
> > > *Dr Devdutt Pattanaik*
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *July 10, 2009
> > > Baba Ramdev calls homosexuality a disease. No textbook of psychiatry
> says
> > > so. The World Health Organisation does not say so. And no, not even the
> > > scriptures, certainly not the Yoga Sutra, says so. In all probability,
> > this
> > > is the Baba's personal opinion. He has a right to his opinion. But can
> a
> > > country's law be based on his opinion?
> > >
> > > The problem is that the Baba is a celebrity and in the times we live
> in,
> > > celebrities, especially those with a religious and cultural aura, are
> > seen
> > > as voices of authority. We must be careful about such opinions. The
> > > practice
> > > of using science to justify social prejudices is not something new.
> Baba
> > > Ramdev [Images<
> > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=baba%20ramdev>
> > > ], with his charm and benign smile, is doing what has been done before.
> > >
> > > I remember an old black and white film starring Nutan called Sujata
> where
> > a
> > > respected elder of the family explains the physiological reason for
> > > sustaining the practice of untouchability. 'They produce a lethal gas,'
> > he
> > > said referring to the Dalits. Because the gentleman had standing, his
> > > opinion mattered. Many people agreed with the learned family friend.
> Not
> > > the
> > > hero. Not us.
> > >
> > > In Hitler's [Images <
> > > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=hitler>
> > > ] Germany [Images <
> > http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=germany
> > > >],
> > > hundreds of scientists dressed in white coats earnestly believed and
> > > rationalised that Jews were a social pathology, a disease, a gangrene
> > that
> > > had to be wiped out to create a perfect, healthy society. This resulted
> > in
> > > the Holocaust. It disgusts us today.
> > >
> > > In South Africa
> > > [Images<http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=south%20africa
> >
> > > ], there were many scholars who went out of their way to publish
> articles
> > > to
> > > rationalise apartheid. They considered the non-White races to be
> > subhuman.
> > > An entire social structure was constructed based on this ideology. We
> > must
> > > be careful of such rhetoric.
> > >
> > > The term 'disease' presupposes a normal health condition. Modern
> medicine
> > > uses this term very cautiously -- the patient must be distressed by it,
> > or
> > > it must threaten a person's well-being, before it can be labelled
> > disease.
> > > Disease cannot be a term used by a community to brand and weed out
> people
> > > that it is uncomfortable with. An unpopular social group cannot be
> > labelled
> > > 'diseased' to justify extermination.
> > >
> > > In Sparta, children who were born with congenital abnormalities, say a
> > > cleft
> > > lip and a malformed limb, were immediately killed. In the Mahabharata [
> > > Images <http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=mahabharata>],
> a
> > > blind man was not allowed to be king. In Australia
> > > [Images<http://search.rediff.com/imgsrch/default.php?MT=australia>
> > > ], well meaning ladies funded a project to forcibly take children from
> > > Aboriginal homes to prevent abnormal/diseased parenting and give them
> > away
> > > in adoption to white parents. Would we do that today?
> > >
> > > Significantly, even the term 'supernatural' presupposes a normal state
> of
> > > being. So a being with three heads in one culture would be seen as
> > > 'deformed' in another; he would be seen as 'supernatural' -- a demon
> for
> > > one, a god for another. How shall we classify deities with three heads
> > and
> > > four arms? By whose gaze? By whose lens? By whose measuring scale? Ten
> > > thousand years ago, when food was scarce, a fat woman was worshipped as
> a
> > > goddess. Today, we consider her obese and psychologically torment her
> > till
> > > she diets, exercises and sheds fat. Is that fair?
> > >
> > > Logic and science and authority can be used to justify anything. But
> > > ultimately we have to ask -- what is our goalpost? Imagine your
> daughter
> > is
> > > getting married to a nice young man who has homosexual feelings. Until
> a
> > > few
> > > weeks ago, he never told the world about it for fear of being branded a
> > > criminal.
> > >
> > > Now, no thanks to the Baba, he feels he is mad. He does not think so.
> He
> > > does not feel so. But he is afraid to tell the world the truth of his
> > > desires. So he has firmly entrenched himself in the closet.
> > >
> > > He will tell no one, certainly not his mother, or father, or brother,
> > that
> > > he has had sex with men. Not one or two, but dozens, secretly,
> silently,
> > > furtive experiences, with men who like him are afraid to disclose their
> > > preferences in public lest they be labelled criminals or diseased.
> > >
> > > He will marry your daughter. And your daughter will wonder why, in the
> > > privacy of the bedroom, this nice man shuns any attempt to be being
> > > intimate. Is she the problem? Her self worth will suffer. The marriage
> > will
> > > suffer. Children will be conceived in loveless unions. The man will
> find
> > it
> > > difficult to be faithful and seek comfort elsewhere. And your daughter
> > will
> > > wonder what is wrong.
> > >
> > > The secret will never be revealed. Everyone in this patriarchal society
> > > will
> > > blame the daughter. A sham of a marriage -- only because of a law, an
> > > intolerant society and Baba's authoritative opinion.
> > >
> > > Homosexuality is natural -- it has been documented in animal species.
> > > Homosexual feelings are not a choice -- they exist in every human
> > society.
> > > Why does it exist? What purpose does it serve? No one really knows the
> > > answer. It is like asking, why do humans experience orgasm? Orgasm does
> > not
> > > play any role in procreation. Why does it exist (and it is found only
> in
> > > the
> > > human species and a few primates)? We can only speculate but we will
> > never
> > > know.
> > >
> > > The question is -- what are we as a civil human society doing about it?
> > Do
> > > we call orgasm -- unnatural or miraculous, God's gift to humanity? What
> > > behaviour do we propose? Should we act on homosexual feelings or
> suppress
> > > them, stay celibate and serve society, as the good Baba suggests? Is
> > > celibacy a 'good' thing?
> > >
> > > In the Mahabharata, sages like Agastya, Kardama and Jaratkaru are
> reviled
> > > by
> > > their ancestors for being celibate. 'Repay your debt to your
> ancestors,'
> > > they demanded and forced the rishis to marry and produce children. This
> > > desire for children stretched to a point where if one was sterile, as
> in
> > > case of Pandu, one was expected to send one's wife to a stranger to get
> > > impregnated by him.
> > >
> > > Rishis had to have sex to produce children -- but were expected to be
> > > disciplined enough not to get pleasure out of it, to have sex without
> > > orgasm, for procreation, nothing else.
> > >
> > > What about the wives of the rishis, one may ask. In one conversation
> with
> > > Urvashi, female sexual desire itself is described as a disease to be
> > > curtailed with fidelity and marriage. The epic refers to a time when
> > women
> > > were free to express their desires followed by a time when they were
> > > restrained by laws of fidelity and chastity. Clearly, definition of
> what
> > > constitutes normal changed over time.
> > >
> > > The changes continued with the rise of monastic orders like Buddhism
> > (which
> > > incidentally popularised the saffron colour). Suddenly monasticism
> became
> > > superior social behaviour. It is so even today, not just in Buddhism
> but
> > > also in Jainism, in Roman Catholicism, and, thanks to the
> Shankaracharya,
> > > even in Hinduism.
> > >
> > > While Sufi mystics chose to be celibate, ask a traditional Muslim
> cleric
> > if
> > > celibacy is acceptable social behaviour. In all probability he will say
> > no.
> > > He will insist on marriage and children and a householder's life. So
> much
> > > for celebration of celibacy.
> > >
> > > What is normal and what is healthy is based on a measuring scale.
> > Different
> > > people have different measuring scales. Notions of what is normal and
> > what
> > > is not, what is physiological and what is pathological, change with
> time
> > > and
> > > place.
> > >
> > > In this ever fluid world, how does one separate acceptable social
> conduct
> > > from what is unacceptable? Society, after all, is not a jungle.
> > >
> > > A civil society exists to include people to enable them to live lives
> to
> > > their full potential. The underlying principle is empathy. I am sure
> the
> > > Baba has empathy. But he also has a measuring scale by which he
> considers
> > > same sex desires a disease.
> > >
> > > One can show him findings from the animal kingdom, one can show him
> > > psychiatric text books, one can show him scriptural evidence of
> inter-sex
> > > states -- but he will dismiss it all as 'Western'. His measuring scale
> > does
> > > not include everyone.
> > >
> > > The Baba will say yoga considers homosexuality a disease. People will
> > > believe him. The media will quote him. And it will become about yoga
> and
> > > Western science. But strangely, the notion of disease does not exist in
> > > yoga. In yoga, all discussions are about creating harmony. And what is
> > > harmonious depends on the environment and goal -- thus, what is good in
> > one
> > > situation for one purpose may not be so in another. Thus, the approach
> to
> > > ailment is very different form Western science.
> > >
> > > Patanjali in his Yoga Sutra defines yoga as 'chitta vriddhi nirodha' --
> > the
> > > uncrumpling of the crumpled mind. The goal post of yoga is to realise
> > > divinity (some would say one's true self) by overpowering prejudice
> > through
> > > increased awareness. I suspect, despite all the asanas and the
> > pranayamas,
> > > the great yoga master has still some prejudices to uncrumple.
> > >
> > > Dr Devdutt Pattanaik www.devdutt.com) is a medical doctor by training
> > and
> > > a
> > > mythologist by passion. After working in the pharma industry for over
> 14
> > > years, he is now Chief Belief Officer at the Future Group. A renowned
> > > speaker and columnist, he has written over a dozen books on the
> relevance
> > > of
> > > sacred stories, symbols and rituals in modern times
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:59 AM, subhrodip sengupta <
> > > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear ALL,
> > > > Taking Psychedellic drugs, it is cliamed can give different
> perceptions
> > > of
> > > > reality, than which words can express. Homosexuality can be cured.
> > Hostel
> > > > life makes one Homosexual. IIM's and many others have co-educational
> > > > hostles. Its about liberty of people, and if natural order is a
> result
> > of
> > > > selection., Forces of Lord or the primordal Song best left to himself
> > is
> > > not
> > > > hampered with. Naah all I'd point out is not to harass people and
> force
> > > them
> > > > into a cure or sterilisation. How can one prosper or be happy in such
> a
> > > > society? Why are we so obsessed in other's sense of carnality, why do
> > we
> > > > carnally read things, may be that's the curse of Western lives, not
> > > > homosexuality. Legalising it only gives it a broader force, and
> > increases
> > > > the pace of acceptance. A sad thing we needed to legalise it, which
> > > itself
> > > > shows how benevolent are attitudes and police force against
> > homosexuals.
> > > We
> > > > need reproduction, a penetration of every vagina. A hymen exists in
> > every
> > > > society,
> > > >  of Feeling barrier and values. Irritated of continuous Rapes, such
> > iron
> > > > actions need to be taken. The old joke is aids was for long in
> swines,
> > > man
> > > > must have mated with a swine and thus unsafe intercourse was a check
> by
> > > > LORD(do not blame me for this break, it is the joke) who wanted
> humans
> > to
> > > > behave in a certain way! Amen then, to all monks and nuns, and to
> most
> > > > prophets then. Let us first, share the joke which Anupam might have
> > taken
> > > > too seriously or Kshmendra, in his strong reactions to the word
> > 'Quack'.
> > > It
> > > > is said that Ramdev had found a cure for AIDS! An accusation off
> > course,
> > > for
> > > > reasons well known. On another note scrapping makes us seem mordern,
> > free
> > > of
> > > > some horrible practices, which continue to be re-enacted. Male sexual
> > > abuse
> > > > is kept close guarded by  helpless males thinking of the stigma and
> > > social
> > > > unacceptance, double degree for homosexuals, and with people
> still  on
> > > > everyone's head it is still annoying. Ayurveda has a secret of
> > > >  self-selection, a well known thing. Once acused of trying to develop
> > one
> > > > such drug, Baba strongly shirked " IT's all the better that they did
> > not
> > > say
> > > > I am reproducing on other's behalf", a human joke. After
> Homosexuality
> > is
> > > > legalised, let's see what he has to say., though I might ask for
> > > > authenticity of this news, it is Baba's personal opinion, as long as
> he
> > > does
> > > > not overshoot accusing all homos and Mundas of rape.... It's us who
> > need
> > > to
> > > > think twice about giving the vital space, else the practice
> continues.
> > > And
> > > > social consciousness thus is so important, Forced Grom Gifts, Dowry
> was
> > > > always unacceptable by many, later on sometime, it got repugnant,
> > > > It
> > > >
> > >
> >
> continues.................................................................................................................
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> > > > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, 11 July, 2009 12:10:41 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga has a cure...
> > > >
> > > > Dear Anupam
> > > >
> > > > I never claimed to compete with Baba Ramdev on Yoga. Neither can you,
> > > > according to your immature statements. Well.. I know for a fact that
> > you
> > > > can
> > > > only abuse/malign a certain personality with such pathetic words, but
> > > with
> > > > no strong arguments or any basis to your imaginary claims. Give proof
> > > > before
> > > > you resort to any more mud slinging.
> > > >
> > > > Your brigade leader Brinda Karat tried once under influence from
> > > > multinational units, but all that ended up making her mockery all the
> > > more.
> > > > You seem to be heading in a similar direction. Only talks, backed by
> > just
> > > > abuses and hatred. It isn't Baba Ramdev who runs after TV or media.
> It
> > is
> > > > quite opposite. It is the same media units who beg to telecast his
> > shows
> > > > overtime. He has done a brilliant work over last many years which I
> > know
> > > > briefly about.
> > > >
> > > > You can't compare Baba Ramdev or for that matter anyone else just
> like
> > > > that.
> > > > Your comparson is baseless. Why don't you campaign against those
> media
> > > > people to cover your friends in Vadodara ? Or are you scared of the
> so
> > > > called SECULAR Media.
> > > >
> > > > I can only laugh at your 'name calling'. This proves my point
> further.
> > > Grow
> > > > up!!! Go out of the AC Rooms and don't be a screaming animal on
> > internet
> > > > alone. I don't need to prove my substace. My work speaks rather than
> my
> > > > words on this sarai network. You need to wake up to facts dear. Don't
> > > > remain
> > > > in the four walls of ignorance.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want you to agree with my viewpoint. We may agree to
> disagree.
> > > You
> > > > shouldn't force your opinion on others.
> > > >
> > > > 'Pranayama' early morning may help you too friend.
> > > >
> > > > love
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM, anupam chakravartty <
> > c.anupam at gmail.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Aditya,
> > > > >
> > > > > First of all, your understanding about yoga is deplorable. Second,
> > this
> > > > > defence that you are trying to put up for Baba Ramdev and his
> > followers
> > > > > shows how well you understand yoga and mass hypnosis spread with
> > > > > television..
> > > > > in case if u plan to state that so many number of people being
> cured
> > by
> > > > > that
> > > > > quack, then there are a couple of witch doctors who are helping out
> > > > > government departments and NGOs in Vadodara who unlike Ramdev
> eating
> > on
> > > > air
> > > > > time of TV channels, are doing their best to educate people in
> tribal
> > > > areas
> > > > > of chota udepur to get medicine treatment for HIV. Because the
> > > villagers
> > > > > would not listen to a modern day doctor so the medicines have to be
> > > > > administered with the help of witch doctors.your knowledge of
> indian
> > > > > society is limited only to drawing room discussions of middle class
> > > Hindu
> > > > > ignorant household where sexual repression manisfests itself like a
> > > > > disease. you are a typical case of the Indian version of american
> > > > > nincompoop. so i sympathise you my friend.
> > > > >
> > > > > and perversions do exist. that 50 women since jan to june 2009 from
> > > Hindu
> > > > > Gujarati Families were raped by brothers or fathers proves it even
> > more
> > > > > (says a latest TOI report) .
> > > > >
> > > > > -with warmest regards
> > > > > anupam
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Anupam
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With such remarks I'm sure even you would like to be one soon
> some
> > > day.
> > > > > > Well, if you really want to practice Yoga, I'm sure Baba Ramdev
> > > hasn't
> > > > > > pulled your neck towards Hardwar, you sure can do it yourself.
> > > > Spreading
> > > > > > imaginary rumours about Baba Ramdev would be insane of you. It
> > > > qualifies
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > as a joker with no 'sense or understanding'. You have proved your
> > > > > > disability
> > > > > > openly on sarai today.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know Baba Ramdev personally. He certainly has lakhs of
> > > > followers
> > > > > > worldwide, your disagreeing with him won't do any harm. You may
> > > > continue
> > > > > to
> > > > > > live in dreams and spread rumours and hatred. But, I know for
> sure
> > > how
> > > > > rich
> > > > > > Homosexual brats sexually abuse children in India. Its all game
> of
> > > > money.
> > > > > > Maybe you should take some inspiration form them.. isn't it ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Love
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:23 PM, anupam chakravartty <
> > > > c.anupam at gmail.com
> > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Aditya,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like you have not heard about the perversion of Yogis. I
> > > think
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > should Body as a Temple where how perverted yogis start with
> > three
> > > > > wives,
> > > > > > > move on to animals, then finally with inanimate objects. this
> was
> > > > > > described
> > > > > > > by a telugu poet of 12th century about yogis and the perverse
> > > habits.
> > > > i
> > > > > > am
> > > > > > > sure baba ramdev aspires to become one. kindly ask your whacko
> > > baba,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > nostril is better to snort cocaine. he will tell you all about
> it
> > > > with
> > > > > > > pranayama. patanjali yoga is to be experienced with a guru who
> > has
> > > > > > reached
> > > > > > > derived siddhi and the one who is beyond all aspirations. your
> > > ideas
> > > > of
> > > > > > > yoga
> > > > > > > being a desi marketable product which is being done by this
> > ramdev
> > > > and
> > > > > > > bandwagon reflects what understanding you have about larger
> > indian
> > > > > > society.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -regards
> > > > > > > anupam
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 7/10/09, Aditya Raj Kaul <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One needs to understand that it isn't just another Baba,
> Maulvi
> > > or
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > father.
> > > > > > > > It is the larger Indian Society. One shouldn't shut their
> eyes
> > to
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > fact.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Moreover, the major debate is on legalization, most of the
> > common
> > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > have consensus on decriminalization.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > @ Inder 'Converted' Salim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your immaturity again makes me laugh. May Baba Ramdev bless
> > you.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do some 'Pranayama'. It may help you. It doesn't only help
> > > Hindus.
> > > > It
> > > > > > > helps
> > > > > > > > Homosexuals too. Just everybody.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hope the DESI dosage helps your case.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, vaid theite <
> > dnyan21 at yahoo.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Afterall, question remains, how to 'convince' people like
> > Baba
> > > > who
> > > > > > say
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > it is not natural. I mean could be posit an argument saying
> > > > > > > homosexuality
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > natural?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In which ways, we could re-articulate history of sexual
> > > relations
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > anthropology, I think.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Counter-argument: will it be 're-articulation'?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Dnyan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > From: Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Baba Ramdev claims Yoga
> has
> > a
> > > > > > cure...
> > > > > > > > > > To: "subhrodip sengupta" <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in>
> > > > > > > > > > Cc: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 1:46 AM
> > > > > > > > > > Since people have raised the question
> > > > > > > > > > of homosexuality not being natural, I
> > > > > > > > > > would also like to know what is this 'natural'. In their
> > > > > > > > > > evolution, human
> > > > > > > > > > beings must have killed animals, and now continue to do
> so
> > > > > > > > > > (though mostly in
> > > > > > > > > > the name of poaching). Is that natural, or not?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Women would have not been subjected to marriage in very
> > > > > > > > > > early history of
> > > > > > > > > > existence of human beings, but now they do marry. Is that
> > > > > > > > > > natural?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There must have been a time when it must have been
> decided
> > > > > > > > > > that women have
> > > > > > > > > > to stay in 'purdah' by someone. At that moment of time,
> > > > > > > > > > would that have been
> > > > > > > > > > natural?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The biggest problem is that one can't be sure whether
> > > > > > > > > > something is natural
> > > > > > > > > > or not. What is only natural, is change. Change has to
> take
> > > > > > > > > > place with time,
> > > > > > > > > > and changes do occur. And as for homosexuality being
> > > > > > > > > > natural or not, if the
> > > > > > > > > > scriptures of the 'Hindu religion' have content on it and
> > > > > > > > > > these scriptures
> > > > > > > > > > are quite old, then obviously by your definition, they
> > > > > > > > > > can't be considered
> > > > > > > > > > 'natural'.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The correct statement should be that homosexuals are in a
> > > > > > > > > > minority in India,
> > > > > > > > > > and it's not the mainstream practiced custom in India.
> That
> > > > > > > > > > is certainly
> > > > > > > > > > true as of now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rakesh
> > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the
> > > > > > > > > > city.
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> > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________
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> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul
> > > > > > > > _________________________________________
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> >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul
> > > > > > _________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Aditya Raj Kaul
> > > > _________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Definitions belong to the
> > > definers not to the defined.
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>
>
> --
> Aditya Raj Kaul
> _________________________________________
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