[Reader-list] On Delhi
Shuddhabrata Sengupta
shuddha at sarai.net
Thu Jul 30 18:15:22 IST 2009
Dear Rana, (and Naga)
Thanks for the discussion.
Just a note of caution, in which I would agree with Naga's comments
on your usage of the term 'Socialist' which I think mars an otherwise
very well argued and etched out piece.
Various political figures, ranging from Mussolini, to Hitler, to Nye
Bevan, to Stalin, to Pilsudski, to Indira Gandhi, to Atal Behari
Vajpayee, to Chiang Kai Shek and Idi Amin described (at some time or
the other, or throughout their political careers) their politics as
'socialist' and their parties/movements as 'Socialist'. Others, such
as The only way, to my mind, to echo these pretences today, is by way
of some sharp irony.
It is true, that Nehru (and some of his other colleagues) did propose
the goal of moving 'towards Socialism' to the Congress Party. And the
word 'Socialist' was inserted into the Indian constitution during the
darkest days of the Emergency as a fig leaf to cover the reality of
repression.
But the policies adopted by Nehru's government, and his immediate
successors, (right up to Indira Gandhi) even if we were to consider
the 'nationalization' of industries and enterprises, and the adoption
of centralized planning as 'Socialist' measures (which I certainly do
not), were arguably less far-reaching than even the policies followed
by the post war Labour government in the UK.
No one, as far as I know, describes the United Kingdom under Clement
Atlee as a 'Socialist' society. It would be difficult to reconcile
the depth of the British class system's bite in the 1950s with any
thing even remotely approximating 'Socialism'. One of the founding
documents of the British Labour Party - the resolution adopted by the
Labour Representation Committee of 1905 (moved by W. Atkinson of the
Paperstainers Union, and seconded by Will Thorne, of the Gasworkers
Union, which stayed on the Labour Party's books until its quiet, and
embarrassed removal, in the 80s) commits the emergent Labour Party to
the goal of
'This annual conference of the LRC hereby declares that its ultimate
object shall be the obtaining for the workers of the full results of
their labour by the overthrow of the present competitive system of
capitalism and the institution of a system of public ownership of all
the means of production, distribution and exchange.'
Despite this, it would be hard to call the Liberal-Labour Governments
of Ramsay Macdonald, or of Bevan and Atlee, right on to the 'New
Labour' of Tony Blair or Gordon Brown - as anything even remotely
resembling Socialism. And yet, Post War Britain, had more extensive
measures taken for state control of key industries than India ever had.
If that be the case, how could we (by the same yardstick) describe
India as 'Socialist'. Is it just that we are (or have become) more
accustomed to identify Capitalism with affluence, and hence, the
seemingly 'affluent' reality of the UK seems more persuasively
'Capitalist' than other realities, elsewhere, such as in India.
Hence, newspaper editors in the Indian English Press routinely call
the state-capitalist measures taken by Nehru and Indira Gandhi,
'Socialist'. I can forgive Indian English Newspaper editors, because
they (by and large) tend to be ill-educated and foolish, but I expect
better from you.
Finally, is it at all necessary to ascribe to nation states,
qualifiers that are more appropriate when speaking of social
formations? A nation state is not a social formation. Those who
thought so, and tried to carry their thought into practice, ended up
leaving us with two of the twentieth century's greatest tragedies -
'Socialism in One Country' (Stalinism) and 'National
Socialism' (Nazism).
I think that the current loose way in which the term 'socialist' is
bandied about in the media, and in fulsome political rhetoric, both
here, as well as elsewhere, might have, unconcsiously seeped into
your writing in this article. I think that for a person of your
acuity, it would be best to be on guard, in the future.
an eager reader of your writing,
Shuddha
On 30-Jul-09, at 5:40 PM, Rana Dasgupta wrote:
> Thank you for good thoughts, Naga: all the things you list are, of
> course, deeply relevant - and many more. In retrospect the "land"
> section could probably have had more bite. I did hope the Nanda
> incident, as well as the Ethiopian land acquisition, would give a
> sense
> of the impact - literal and figurative - between this emerging
> class of
> global capitalists and farmers and workers.
>
> On socialism: though I agree that such shorthands are never satisfying
> to categorise a whole era and system - who has a monopoly on the
> meaning
> of the word? Nehru called the society he built a "socialist" society,
> and the India of that era had in place many of the features - eg
> centralised production - that characterise other nations that call
> themselves "socialist". The meaning that the word thus acquires is
> surely real...?
>
> Thanks again
>
> R
>
>
>
> Nagraj Adve wrote:
>> Very nice piece Rana, thanks. I sometimes have this unspoken and
>> somewhat sinking feeling when I think of this segment of the
>> capitalist class your piece discusses. Fear may seem a strong word
>> but
>> I can't think of any other to describe the emotion. As activists in
>> this city for some years now, I don't think we even grapple with the
>> realities of this class; perhaps those who are trade unionists do.
>>
>> Just some specific reactions to parts of the piece, reactions that
>> are
>> disjointed. I liked the bits with the therapist Anurag Mishra, an
>> interesting angle. And also MC at the end of the piece. And Tarun
>> Tejpal's comments sadly are not too bleak, though there's also a
>> growing resistance to the intensifying rape of resources.
>>
>> Couple of observations: The absence of any line or comment on the
>> working poor of this city - women working as domestic help and
>> increasingly as construction labour who build the stuff that DLF
>> makes
>> its money from; factory workers; adivasi migrants who leave their own
>> homes and communities to work in the homes of the rich here - was
>> striking. I do realize that the piece was about the very rich, but as
>> EP Thompson said in his famous intro to 'The Making ...", you can't
>> have the one without the other. Also, a mention of the destruction of
>> jhuggis in 1996 and 2001 (30,000 homes along the Yamuna Pushta) would
>> have been relevant. And also the closure of industries that happened
>> at the time. Or the decline in real wages.
>>
>> Finally, in passing: you refer about half a dozen times to India as
>> being 'socialist' in earlier decades. It has never been even remotely
>> so, not for a single day. Gunnar Mrydal had some blunt stuff to say
>> about that during a visit to Delhi in 1958.
>>
>> Thanks for the piece.
>> warmly,
>> Naga
>>
>>
>> On 29/07/2009, *Sudeshna Chatterjee* <sudeshna.kca at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sudeshna.kca at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Its a really good read! Highly recommended.
>>
>> Sudeshna
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Rana Dasgupta
>> <rana at ranadasgupta.com <mailto:rana at ranadasgupta.com>>wrote:
>>
>>> My recent essay about Delhi, and the culture of its new rich,
>> from the
>>> current edition of Granta magazine.
>>>
>>> http://www.ranadasgupta.com/texts.asp?text_id=47
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>>>
>>> R
>>> _________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sudeshna Chatterjee, PhD
>> New Delhi, India
>> _________________________________________
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>
> --
> "I'm an ex-citizen of nowhere. And sometimes I get mighty homesick."
>
> Rana Dasgupta
> www.ranadasgupta.com
>
>
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Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net
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