[Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Re: i was stunned

[Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: i was stunned
To: Venugopalan K M <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
Cc: Rajen Uppinangadi <rajen882uppinangadi at gmail.com>


Dear all,

   now that some semblance of maturity is prevalent in list as we talk about
the issues regarding the good governance going for a toss with corruption of
the individuals in politics, administration and judiciary, I must
congratulate the list and its members for the good thoughts about the issues
affecting the society. Having said that, some have reservations about me
talking about Modi, hence the clarification, have any of you have any proof
for the direct involvement of Modi in the riots except the media which was
on witch-hunting expedition for Congress, if so, please submit it to SIT on
the riots, let the facts come out, if it is true. All along it is perception
aided and abetted by partisan media that have been projected as intellectual
conception of Modi and his guilt of particpatory riots, which I strongly
take exception to. In case of the delhi riots, Jagadeesh Tytler and sajjan
Kumar had visited the police stations to get their "men" from detention. If
some body talks of works of tehelka, it does not much hold water as tehelka
is sister organisation of Amarinder singh sponsored media house, so once in
a while they have some small fish from all parties including the Congress
but their major target is only BJP.

  Media also have a dubious role when it comes to projection of crimes in
BJP ruled states, but in Congress ruled states they have a different
yardstick, which is worrysome for anyone in nation. For example, mayajal and
mayavathi was big song and dance sequence for IBN for one day, but very next
day when the OB van was attacked, correspondent beaten up, maya and mayajal
had wonderful effect on this channel and its anchor. BJP is soft target
because till now as a political party it has not shown its goon behaviour
and treated dissent with respect and studied silence. In Delhi when movement
of women became precarious, there was no special song and dance by anchors,
even rape and murders were in small captions for Delhi state, as all the
media house are located in and around Delhi and need the patronage of the
system of governance. If its RSS, media seem to be on overdrive as RSS
hardly has any PRO, except that recently, for the last few years a
spokesperson is there to respond with sane words unlike the goons of other
political spectrum.Talk of prince in waiting only in goody gody words, or
else the advertisement from PSU are affected, and so are the media in spin
for the prince and suddenly find all virtues in the same person about whom,
few months ago , they were talking of his immature comments on partition and
Bangladesh.!

   Fact of the matter is media and its spin doctors do all the jobs for a
valid consideration, nothing is free in this material world.?
 In the list as we exchange thoughts for all of us t have a better
understanding of the society and the time we live in, we need not be
mercenaries for any one, so when rakesh ji assumes that i hold brief for
Modi, he is going with his perception, nothing else. Being politically
correct is not quite possible if one would like to go with facts.

Regards,

 Rajen.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Venugopalan K M <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Rajen,
> Ideally speaking, no political strong man is to be considered above the
> law.
> Doesn't politics make us behave in partisan ways, however?
> While you were rightly invoking the cases of Pinarayi& Lavlene,
> Nanigram&Singur, anti-Sikh pogroms done by the Congress,etc on the one hand,
> you certainly seem keeping favour for Modi&Co.in the context of Gujarat.
> Perhaps this sort of stereotypical attitude  often makes  any discussion
> devoid of real merit and meaning.
> I would agree that Lavlene will certainly make  a serious case of
> corruption charges against a prominent leader of the Left. But what about
> the propreity of a Governer acting against the advice of a State government?
> Will it not tantamount in defying the principle of federalism as enshrined
> in the Constitution? According to many Constitution experts' and jurists'
> view, the Governer could at best have sent back the advise (against
> prosecution of Pinarayi by the CBI ) for reconsidering by the State
> Goverment to ensure the Constitutinality  of his action. In that case, the
> obligation on the part of the Govt to proceed with giving assent to the
> prosecution would have looked  like more a democratic pressure than an
> authoritarian one , from a central agency, which is again, motivated by the
> politics of the ruling party.
> If the country is to exist as a composite polity of different sub
> nationalities embedded in  a  quasi-federal set up as  envisioned by  the
> Constitution, the basics should certainly be adhered to rather than be
> undermined under whatever pretext. The action by the Governer of Kerala is
> nothing short of display of authoritarianism against a democratically
> elected state power.
>
> Regards,
> Venu.
>
>
>
> n Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Anupam ji,
>>
>>  it is interesting to note that we have another set of  demons for reader
>> list addition in Pinarayi Vijayan, with biggest scam in Kerala state for
>> looting of the state funds to the extent of 374 crores, funds released for
>> not working.! Communists whatever said and done, had no blemished
>> individuals as to corruption and loot of public funds, but after the
>> advent
>> of Nandigram chemical hub for Salim group of Indonesia by the CM of west
>> bengal, later the issue of SMC lavelin, canadian company getting paid for
>> work not done, has brought the other side of the communist leaders in to
>> stark focus. In the list, when posted of the news of Pinarayi Vijayan,
>> there
>> was no response from anyone as if talking against the big boss of
>> politburo
>> is great offence by the sympathisers, CM of Kerala who is known for his
>> simplicity and clean image is first to rebel against politburo on this
>> issue, but was asked to resign if he felt so strongly about the issue,
>> what
>> have you got to say, other than politically right words of say, law will
>> take its own course.?
>>
>>  As to bofors and its aftermath, the pity is the gen- next has not read
>> wonderfully written investigative journalism of Ms. Chithra Subramaniam in
>> the newspaper the Hindu, then, and even now seem to be under illusion that
>> uncle Q is clean, or not sufficient evience against uncle Q.Fact is the
>> judicial process was subverted systematically, delayed the trial process
>> and
>> thus the entire exercise of getting at the guilty became a farce of laws
>> taking their own course as directed by those in power.!
>>
>>   With new truths emerging about the judiciary and the ethics of the
>> judges
>> and morals of these lawyers, nothing much is expected to happen in the
>> rule
>> of laws unless the citizens are aware as to how the judiciary is being
>> subverted with corrupt practices of honouring the corrupt after their
>> retirement as heads of office of profits, such as human rights
>> commissions,
>> inquiry commisssions where the guilty are exempted from punishment even as
>> judges of supreme court cry hoarse about the human rights commisssion
>> rexommends scot free life for  murder convict as he is political
>> strongman.?Please read the papers of the day for details.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 6:17 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Rajen,
>> >
>> > You can go on making modi the able administrator and i can demonise him.
>> > however, the place from where you stand see what;s happening in Gujarat
>> is
>> > very different from where i see it. and it is not exactly a problem for
>> you
>> > if we criticise sonia or manmohan but it is a problem for u if it modi.
>> it
>> > would have not been a topic if you would not have considered modi as an
>> > able
>> > administrator.
>> >
>> > it is because of such advantages people like modi are ruling else he
>> would
>> > have been in the jail.
>> >
>> > -anupam
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 6/7/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Dear All,
>> > >
>> > > This is exactly the advantage of democratic life, all can have their
>> > > opinion, express it in most good or pervert bad ill will, still, all
>> of
>> > us
>> > > accept it, such dissent is possible only in democratic life.One can
>> > express
>> > > freely about a Modi, about a Sonia or about a Lalu, but some resort to
>> > tell
>> > > it thousands of times to reinforce that Modi is bad, again their way
>> of
>> > > being in limelight for their thoughts.!
>> > >
>> > > By the way Bhagalpur riots had different story to tell the miseries of
>> > > humans, Ashish nandy is quiet on that front.?
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > >
>> > > Rajen.
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:36 PM, anupam chakravartty <
>> c.anupam at gmail.com
>> > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Dear Rajen,
>> > >>
>> > >> Modi is nothing but an advertising genius. while he can advertise
>> about
>> > GM
>> > >> plants in Halol and metro coach, heritage site in Pavagadh in
>> > Panchmahals,
>> > >> Halol town doesnt have single drainage system in the town. if you
>> ever
>> > go
>> > >> there, you might find disgruntled BJP chairman of the nagarpalika,
>> nitin
>> > >> shah, who has been running from pillar to post in gandhinagar for
>> > drainage
>> > >> system in the town. successive governments including congres and BJP
>> > were
>> > >> not bothered about it, even Modi isnt. if you think he is able
>> > >> administrator, you are living in some different world.
>> > >>
>> > >> secondly, modi recently stated that gujarat would lead the second
>> green
>> > >> revolution. if you ever find out about project sunshine of
>> distributing
>> > >> monsanto hybrid seeds to trbal farmers you will gasp. for first two
>> > years,
>> > >> they were given free seeds for maize, this year monsanto with the
>> > consent
>> > >> of
>> > >> gujarat government is distributing the seeds for Rs 500 a pack for a
>> > >> farmer
>> > >> who has to pawn his fields to buy the seeds. i would not be surprised
>> if
>> > >> another vidarbha like situation starts in gujarat. offcourse the
>> yields
>> > >> can
>> > >> only get better with continous usage of fertilizers and pesticides
>> (most
>> > >> of
>> > >> them have restricted usage in the nation) altering the quality of the
>> > soil
>> > >> forever.
>> > >>
>> > >> able administration comes from humble admissions that yes this is not
>> > >> working in my state and i need to fix it. it doesnt come loud,
>> > absolutely
>> > >> juvenile statements. other chief ministers do not do so at least in
>> my
>> > >> knowledge but what mr modi has been doing is advertising campaign
>> which
>> > >> has
>> > >> buyers such as you.
>> > >>
>> > >> thanks anupam
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On 6/7/09, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Dear Rajen jee
>> > >> >
>> > >> > You think I hate Modi. Interestingly, Modi hates non-vegetarians in
>> > his
>> > >> own
>> > >> > party (like he hated Kashiram Rana of his own party). So much for
>> > >> hatred!
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The fact is that the developmental model which Modi brags about, is
>> > >> useless
>> > >> > and sooner or later is going to lead Gujarat to utter disaster. The
>> > >> poverty
>> > >> > levels in Gujarat are still about 14.07%. Around 2006-07, Modi and
>> his
>> > >> > govt.
>> > >> > were bragging for being declared the best govt as per a survey
>> > conducted
>> > >> by
>> > >> > the Rajiv Gandhi foundation. The reality is that the Modi govt. was
>> > >> rated
>> > >> > best only for 'Economic Freedom'.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > As a proof, I give link of this article published in the Hindu:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/06/27/stories/2005062700200900.htm
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Modi is exactly doing what George Bush was good at, propagandas. If
>> > you
>> > >> say
>> > >> > a lie 1000 times, people believe it's the truth. So, when Bush said
>> > >> again
>> > >> > and again that Iraq had WMD's, Americans were convinced, or at
>> least a
>> > >> > section were. And the local media was used very easily. Similar is
>> the
>> > >> case
>> > >> > in Gujarat, where the local Gujarati media plays in hands of Modi,
>> and
>> > >> he
>> > >> > convinced them and still does so that not only do Muslims deserve
>> to
>> > be
>> > >> > second class citizens (which is now implicit post Godhra), but also
>> > that
>> > >> > his
>> > >> > developmental model is the best.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > More importantly, what he has done is only going to prove
>> disastrous
>> > in
>> > >> the
>> > >> > long run. Around the coastal regions, you have factories coming up
>> > >> without
>> > >> > proper laws or procedure being followed, and the result is that the
>> > salt
>> > >> > which is obtained from sea water in these coastal regions is
>> turning
>> > >> black
>> > >> > due to pollution from the factories. This is Modi's management! And
>> I
>> > >> say
>> > >> > Modi because he likes to show that he is the boss.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Please don't get swept away by the Modi mania, otherwise India will
>> > >> anyways
>> > >> > hit a six by sweeping him over the ropes when the battle comes up
>> in
>> > >> 2014,
>> > >> > and you will then feel bad about it.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > As for the other riots, all those involved in them,directly and
>> > >> indirectly,
>> > >> > belonging to whichever party and whichever community, or being of
>> any
>> > >> > religion, should be put behind bars and cases properly registered,
>> > >> > investigated and taken to their logical conclusions in the quickest
>> > >> > possible
>> > >> > time. Those who don't do so, whether it be Modi in Gujarat or the
>> > >> Congress
>> > >> > in Delhi, are culprits, at least as I see it.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Regards
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Rakesh
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>> > >> > rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > Dear Rakesh,
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >  you seem to have the  patent hate for the leaders like Modi who
>> > have
>> > >> > > administered well, got elected again and again because of the
>> good
>> > >> > > governance, and conveniently forget that many other riots have
>> shown
>> > >> that
>> > >> > > all humans have an animal side to them, like in Bhagalpur riots,
>> it
>> > >> was
>> > >> > > goons of other political parties had raped the muslim women and
>> > killed
>> > >> > > innocent muslims in many other riots. To generalise that only in
>> one
>> > >> > state
>> > >> > > gujarath the riots had muslim as victims shows tht insufficient
>> > study
>> > >> has
>> > >> > > taken place,please find enclosed a study of riots which was postd
>> in
>> > >> the
>> > >> > > list for your ready reference.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Regards,
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Rajen.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Rakesh Iyer <
>> > rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com
>> > >> > >wrote:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >> Dear Vedavati jee (and all)
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> First of all, you should stop being a spokesman for the entire
>> > Hindu
>> > >> > >> community. Who are you to say that Muslims have survived in
>> India
>> > >> > because
>> > >> > >> the majority of people here were Hindus? Don't Muslims survive
>> in
>> > >> > America
>> > >> > >> too? Don't they live in England? Don't they live in other
>> nations,
>> > >> > >> including
>> > >> > >> China? And how did you draw the conclusion that Muslims have
>> > survived
>> > >> > >> because of a Hindu majority in India?
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Secondly, I would strongly urge you or request you to stop
>> looking
>> > at
>> > >> > >> issues
>> > >> > >> from Jewish, Hindu or Muslim point of view. We already had a
>> great
>> > >> > >> president
>> > >> > >> in George Bush in America to do that and the world has paid a
>> price
>> > >> for
>> > >> > >> it.
>> > >> > >> Similarly, we have our own Narendra Modi in India, who has been
>> > >> > constantly
>> > >> > >> trying to rupture the foundations of our Indian Republic as
>> > enshrined
>> > >> in
>> > >> > >> the
>> > >> > >> Constitution.
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> By speaking out against secularism, you are speaking against the
>> > very
>> > >> > >> Constitution of India, and for your own consideration, can be
>> > treated
>> > >> as
>> > >> > a
>> > >> > >> 'traitor' by the same yardstick of the Constitution. This is
>> also
>> > for
>> > >> > all
>> > >> > >> those who constantly attack secularism on this forum. At least
>> you
>> > >> are
>> > >> > >> nationalistic, you should know this.
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Instead of venting out your anger, please give rational/logical
>> > >> > arguments
>> > >> > >> about why secularism is wrong. At least Ashish Nandy had a point
>> > when
>> > >> he
>> > >> > >> said that secularism has increased communal violence in India,
>> for
>> > >> > secular
>> > >> > >> modern development has cut off people from their cultural roots,
>> > who
>> > >> > then
>> > >> > >> take refuge in Hindutva and this leads to problems. What do you
>> > have
>> > >> as
>> > >> > an
>> > >> > >> argument against secularism?
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Please look at issues from a human angle. I accept that Kashmiri
>> > >> Hindus
>> > >> > >> have
>> > >> > >> a right, and the fate of any self-determined/Indian
>> > >> occupation/Pakistani
>> > >> > >> occupation of Kashmir must take the views and ideas of all
>> sections
>> > >> of
>> > >> > the
>> > >> > >> Kashmiri society into consideration. And as for the Kashmiri
>> > Pandits,
>> > >> to
>> > >> > a
>> > >> > >> certain degree India has failed them. And it was not as if under
>> > the
>> > >> > right
>> > >> > >> wing govt in India, they were living a life of paradise either.
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Thirdly, on a personal level, I would urge you to at least start
>> > >> > trusting
>> > >> > >> the ability of human beings, and having faith in them, at least
>> > till
>> > >> you
>> > >> > >> have proof to the contrary. If you have suffered a tragedy at
>> the
>> > >> hands
>> > >> > of
>> > >> > >> one Muslim or a few Muslims, it doesn't mean the entire
>> community
>> > >> must
>> > >> > be
>> > >> > >> criticized for the same. And anyways, are not there bad people
>> in
>> > the
>> > >> > >> Hindu
>> > >> > >> community?
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Weren't those who raped Muslim women in the post-Godhra riots
>> > Hindus?
>> > >> > >> Weren't those who indulged in violence during that time Hindus?
>> Is
>> > >> > >> violence
>> > >> > >> acceptable? Do you think rape is the way to solve 'Hindu-Muslim
>> > >> problem'
>> > >> > >> which is in the minds first and on the roads later? Do you
>> advocate
>> > >> this
>> > >> > >> as
>> > >> > >> the way to avenge Godhra?
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> And if they are Hindus, which I hope you would accept, should
>> the
>> > >> entire
>> > >> > >> Hindu community be criticized? Should we denounce Hinduism? Are
>> all
>> > >> > Hindus
>> > >> > >> then inhuman, as Osama Bin Laden would like the Muslims around
>> the
>> > >> world
>> > >> > >> to
>> > >> > >> believe?
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Please think about this, it's a humble request from me. So also
>> for
>> > >> the
>> > >> > >> others. Here I am not saying you shouldn't be nationalistic
>> (this I
>> > >> > >> believe
>> > >> > >> is very difficult to change), but at least for the sake of the
>> > nation
>> > >> > >> which
>> > >> > >> you put before yourself, at least understand the true nature of
>> the
>> > >> > >> problem
>> > >> > >> instead of looking at it through skewed minds.
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Regards
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Rakesh
>> > >> > >> _________________________________________
>> > >> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > >> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
>> > >> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.netwith
>> > >> > >> subscribe in the subject header.
>> > >> > >> To unsubscribe:
>> > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > >> > >> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/
>> >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > --
>> > >> > > Rajen.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > _________________________________________
>> > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > >> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > >> > subscribe in the subject header.
>> > >> > To unsubscribe:
>> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > >> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > >> _________________________________________
>> > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
>> > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > >> subscribe in the subject header.
>> > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > >> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Rajen.
>> > >
>> > _________________________________________
>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> > subscribe in the subject header.
>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rajen.
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://venukm.blogspot.com/
>



-- 
Rajen.



-- 
Rajen.