[Reader-list] Fw: Re: we are all stunned
A.K. Malik
akmalik45 at yahoo.com
Wed Jun 10 19:07:48 IST 2009
Dear Mr Javed,
I stand corrected pl.
(A.K.MALIK)
--- On Wed, 6/10/09, M Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: M Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: we are all stunned
> To: "A.K. Malik" <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Sarai List" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 3:50 PM
> Dear Malik
> I do not represent what Muslim condemn and what they don't,
> nor do I
> want to prove for you that Muslims do condemn wrong-doings
> to
> non-Muslims. But since you have asked for it (it seems you
> don't read
> much newspapers), here are some links that are readily
> available. If
> one makes a thorough research, one could find many
> more....
>
> Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
> http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
>
> Muslims Condemn oppression against Sikhs
> http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2009/05/muslims-condemn-oppression-against.html
>
> Geelani slams Muslims for Godhra carnage
> http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15042002/1504200275.htm
>
> Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say
> http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-distortion.html
>
> GCC condemns the heinous killing of Kashmiri Pandits
> (signatories
> include many Muslims)
> http://www.milligazette.com/IndMusStat/2003a/gcc24mar03.htm
>
> Muslims Condemn Mumbai Terror
> http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1227792511156&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout
>
> Muslims Condemn the Mumbai Rail bombings
> http://mikeghouse.sulekha.com/blog/post/2006/07/muslims-condemn-the-mumbai-rail-bombings.htm
>
> Muslims and others condemn attack on Swaminarayan temple in
> Gujarat:
> http://www.onlinevolunteers.org/gujarat/news/temple/ahmedabad-ngos.htm
>
> The Indian Muslims trial by fire
> http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2001/11/14/stories/041455jr.htm
>
> Diplomats of Muslim countries condemn LTTE terror attack
> http://www.slmission.com/media-releases/21-ministry-media-releases-/279-diplomats-of-muslim-countries-condemn-ltte-terror-attack-in-akuressa.html
>
> Here is the link about UP minister Yaqub Qureshi announcing
> 51-crore
> award for beheading Danish cartoonist. But the same news
> item has a
> condemnation by members of the Muslim Personal Law Board.
> Many other
> Muslim groups and individuals had condemned this at that
> time. Should
> I send you some more links:
>
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1580915/posts
>
> Javed
>
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 1:53 PM, A.K. Malik<akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mr Javed,
> > Why then everyone is interested to
> condemn Post-Godhra events day-in and day-out.Is it not one
> of the many cases? Show me a similar tone for other cases,
> the ratio would come down to 100:1 If I remember correctly
> one of the ministers in UP Govt had publicly offered
> 51Crores to anyone beheading someone (I don't remember the
> name).
> > Give me the links when he was condemned by any
> prominent muslim.
> > It is everyone's right to speak or not to speak on any
> issue.But generalisations are based on certain data which
> are either easily available or are on the Public
> perception.
> > See Salman Khurshid's statement who only sees Muslims
> as downtrodden.If we belong to a majority religion so we
> must suffer. All sops should only be given to minorities,
> all sympathisers should be only for minorities so that they
> appeased and are a solid VOTE-BANK.Why not treat everyone
> equal, the Constitution Of India enjoins upon not to
> discriminate based on caste, creed or religion.LET US ALL BE
> TREATED AS INDIANS irrespective of belonging to any
> religion.
> > Regards,
> > (A.K.MALIK)
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 6/10/09, M Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: M Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: we are all
> stunned
> >> To: "A.K. Malik" <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> >> Cc: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>,
> "Sarai List" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 11:54 AM
> >> Dear Vedavati and Malik
> >> Firstly, it is wrong to say that Muslim leaders
> never
> >> condemn wrongs
> >> done to the people of other faiths. One can quote
> thousands
> >> of
> >> instances on Muslims condemning acts of terrorism
> and
> >> violence where
> >> people of other (non-Muslim) communities have
> been
> >> affected. (If you
> >> are interested, I can send the links and
> references). But a
> >> more
> >> important point is: why should we expect only
> Muslim
> >> leaders to come
> >> up with a condemnation? What does that prove? A
> >> condemnation of an
> >> event by someone may express one's honest angst
> about
> >> something, but
> >> it can also be a superficial lip-service to create
> a
> >> feel-good factor.
> >> Why should someone do a superficial media-act to
> show
> >> one's
> >> patriotism? If Muslims keep condemning the plight
> of
> >> Kashmiri pandits,
> >> will they get a certificate of bonafide Indian
> nationals?
> >>
> >> I really wonder what does a mere criticism or
> condemnation
> >> in public
> >> about an event mean anything? Does it heal the
> wounds of
> >> the affected
> >> people? Does it stop the perpetrators from their
> acts of
> >> violence?
> >>
> >> Javed
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 11:18 AM, A.K. Malik<akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> > I agree and respect your views. I
> have rarely
> >> seen any muslim leader or others criticizing any
> wrong being
> >> done by people of their own faith except Hindus of
> course
> >> most of whom cry more for any atrocity on persons
> of
> >> specific religion and remain silent when it is on
> persons of
> >> their own religion.
> >> > There are thousands of so called seculars who
> have
> >> condemned post Godhra violence, very few for
> Godhra incident
> >> and almost none for atrocities on Kashmiri
> Hindus.
> >> > You are not "secular" unless you kick people
> of your
> >> own faith whether wrong or right is immaterial.
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > (A.K.MALIK)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: i was
> stunned
> >> >> To: "A.K. Malik" <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> >> >> Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> >> >> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 10:21 AM
> >> >> thank you mr. malik for this
> >> >> mail. i know you are not a
> pseudo-secular,
> >> 'liberal'
> >> >> or 'thinker' etc.
> >> >> still you did not like the idea of
> >> >> throwing muslims out of this country.
> >> >>
> >> >> this is the difference between hindus
> &
> >> >> muslims! trust me i wanted to prove
> this to
> >> all.
> >> >>
> >> >> majority of muslims in pakistan or
> bangladesh,
> >> kashmir
> >> >> even india, don't show this magnonimity
> towards
> >> >> hindus. i have not seen any muslim leader
> caring
> >> for hindu
> >> >> migrants from kashmir.
> >> >>
> >> >> yet sickulars in india keep talking
> about
> >> >> 'sufferings of muslims in india'
> >> >> this continuous hindubashing is
> responsible for
> >> >> creating gulf between citizens of
> different faiths
> >> in india
> >> >> .
> >> >>
> >> >> i am not a religious fanatic, i would
> never
> >> want
> >> >> to throw any common citizen (irrespective
> of his
> >> or her
> >> >> faith) to be thrown out of this country.
> i possess
> >> great
> >> >> respect for dr. kalam, i just loved
> rafi,
> >> madhubala, i love
> >> >> to listen to jakir hussain's tabla and
> like to
> >> watch
> >> >> irfan pathan's game. list is very big!
> >> >>
> >> >> vedavati
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --- On Tue, 9/6/09, A.K. Malik
> >> >> <akmalik45 at yahoo..com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> From: A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: i was
> stunned
> >> >> To: "Vedavati Jogi"
> >> >> <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> Cc: "Sarai List" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> >> Date: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 1:36 PM
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Dear Vedvatiji,
> >> >>
> >> >> I am normally a critcizer of Hindu
> bashing
> >> >> but I find this to be strange. What has
> Pakistan
> >> to do with
> >> >> Indian Muslims, they are Indian citizens
> as we are
> >> and have
> >> >> the same rights as we have? And who has
> given this
> >> power to
> >> >> Balasaheb Thakre to send Indian Citizens
> to
> >> Pakistan? It is
> >> >> a different matter if some are willing to
> go on
> >> their own
> >> >> accord and Pakistan is ready to accept
> them.If the
> >> same is
> >> >> being done to Indians in Australia and
> North
> >> America why are
> >> >> we then troubled.
> >> >> In this Globalised world, such a thinking
> will
> >> definitely
> >> >> bring another partition.
> >> >> I find the Press to be also responsible
> for
> >> bringing such a
> >> >> division amongst citizens. Newspaper
> headings:
> >> >> "A Woman and DALIT becomes speaker for
> the first
> >> >> time"
> >> >> "Vahanvati is first MUSLIM Attorney
> >> >> General" Today's Times of India
> Front
> >> >> Page
> >> >> The emphasis is not the MERIT
> >> >> which has brought them to these levels,
> it is on
> >> Dalit and
> >> >> Muslim as if they have become eligible
> only now or
> >> they have
> >> >> been appointed as if the requirement was
> for a
> >> Dalit and a
> >> >> Muslim and no merit was required.That is
> one
> >> reason I am
> >> >> against reservations of any kind. The
> >> help/assistance
> >> >> needs only to be given for grooming.
> >> >>
> >> >> (A.K.MALIK)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: i
> was
> >> stunned
> >> >> > To: "Venugopalan K M" <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
> >> >> > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net
> >> >> > Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 7:07 PM
> >> >> > i don't speak for hindus,
> >> >> > i care for my nation!
> >> >> > this socalled philosophy of
> secularism
> >> and
> >> >> liberalism
> >> >> > is dividing the nation and disarming
> hindus
> >> >> > and i can't see my country being
> partitioned
> >> again
> >> >> .
> >> >> >
> >> >> > once balasaheb thakare had said, if
> pakistan
> >> wants
> >> >> kashmir
> >> >> > (because kashmir is a muslim
> majority state)
> >> then they
> >> >> will
> >> >> > have to accept 20 crore muslim
> refugees from
> >> india
> >> >> too.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > i support this statement.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > vedavati
> >> >> > --- On Sun, 7/6/09, Venugopalan K M
> <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > From: Venugopalan K M <kmvenuannur at gmail.com>
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Re: i
> was
> >> stunned
> >> >> > To: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> >> > Date: Sunday, 7 June, 2009, 3:38 PM
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Ignorance may be bliss; arrogance
> might be
> >> bliss as
> >> >> well,
> >> >> > at least until
> >> >> > someone gets held up for rash
> assumptions on
> >> others..
> >> >> > However, certain manifestations of
> ignorance
> >> plus
> >> >> arrogance
> >> >> > are better to be
> >> >> > left as they are; I believe that
> will be
> >> healthy for
> >> >> people
> >> >> > on both sides of
> >> >> > the divide..
> >> >> > Feel no temptation to
> >> >> dispute the contents here;
> >> >> > but who are you to speak for the
> entire
> >> Hindus in
> >> >> India,any
> >> >> > way?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Peace and love,
> >> >> > Venu.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:12 AM,
> Vedavati
> >> Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > good -that israel govt did not
> listen to
> >> you and
> >> >> > returned socalled occupied
> >> >> > > territories to palestinians. i
> never
> >> knew that
> >> >> there
> >> >> > are pseudo seculars in
> >> >> > > israel too (like india)
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > you feel govt. of india should
> give
> >> autonomy to
> >> >> > kashmir, are you aware that
> >> >> > > kashmiri hindus have been
> thrown out of
> >> kashmir?
> >> >> > > do you find muslims so
> >> >> trustworthy that in autonomous,
> >> >> > muslims dominated
> >> >> > > state hindus can remain safe?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > whole pakistan is a muslim
> occupied
> >> india, are
> >> >> you
> >> >> > aware of that?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > vedavati
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --- On Sun, 7/6/09, Alex Stein
> <alex.stein at talk21.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > From: Alex Stein <alex.stein at talk21.com>
> >> >> > > Subject: Re: i was stunned
> >> >> > > To: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> > > Date: Sunday, 7 June, 2009,
> 2:58 AM
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > 1. I think we should return
> the
> >> Occupied
> >> >> Territories
> >> >> > (West Bank, Gaza, East
> >> >> > > Jerusalem) to the Palestinian
> people.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > 2. I never said I speak for
> Kashmir.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > 3. I think the valley should
> be
> >> autonomous
> >> >> (nobody
> >> >> > should be removed from
> >> >> > > their homes).
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > 4. That is for you and Pakistan
> to
> >> decide over
> >> >> the
> >> >> > course - hopefully one
> >> >> > > day - of peace negotiations.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > A
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > falsedichotomies.com
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > "The most radical and the only
> secure
> >> form
> >> >> of
> >> >> > possession is destruction,
> >> >> > > for only what we have destroyed
> is
> >> safely and
> >> >> forever
> >> >> > ours." Hannah Arendt
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Vedavati
> Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> > > Subject: Re: i was stunned
> >> >> > > To: "Alex Stein" <alex.stein at talk21.com>
> >> >> > > Date: Saturday, 6 June, 2009,
> 7:38 PM
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > hello alex,
> >> >> > > 1) will you give part of your
> country to
> >> any
> >> >> other
> >> >> > nation?
> >> >> > > 2) who has given you right to
> speak for
> >> kashmir?
> >> >> > > 3) if kashmir is given to
> muslims what
> >> about
> >> >> those
> >> >> > hindus who have been
> >> >> > > living there since last
> thousand years?
> >> >> > > 4) will you dare to tell
> pakistan to
> >> give our
> >> >> land
> >> >> > back?
> >> >> > > vedavati
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --- On Sun, 7/6/09, Alex Stein
> <alex.stein at talk21.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > From: Alex Stein <alex.stein at talk21.com>
> >> >> > > Subject: Re: i was stunned
> >> >> > > To: "Vedavati Jogi" <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> > > Date: Sunday, 7 June, 2009,
> 2:27 AM
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Hi Vedavti,
> >> >> > > Thanks for your email.
> >> >> > > We are not standing in
> opposition to
> >> Hindus. I
> >> >> deeply
> >> >> > love India, its
> >> >> > > culture and its people. I
> believe,
> >> though, that
> >> >> the
> >> >> > Kashmir people have a
> >> >> > > right to self-determination,
> just like
> >> anyone
> >> >> else,
> >> >> > and I believe that it is
> >> >> > > in India's interest to grant it
> to them,
> >> at
> >> >> least when
> >> >> > the time is right.
> >> >> > > Best wishes,
> >> >> > > Alex Stein
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > PS - you may be interested in
> my blog of
> >> my
> >> >> travels in
> >> >> > India last summer -
> >> >> > > wanderingsatlan.blogspot.com
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > falsedichotomies.com
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > "The most radical and the only
> secure
> >> form
> >> >> of
> >> >> > possession is destruction,
> >> >> > > for only what we have destroyed
> is
> >> safely and
> >> >> forever
> >> >> > ours." Hannah Arendt
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > --- On Fri, 5/6/09, Vedavati
> Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > From: Vedavati Jogi <vedavati_jogi at yahoo.com>
> >> >> > > Subject: i was stunned
> >> >> > > To: alex.stein at talk21.com
> >> >> > > Date: Friday, 5 June, 2009,
> 7:10 AM
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > hello sir,
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > i went thru. your article
> about
> >> >> 'jeuish-kashmiri
> >> >> > dialogue group
> >> >> > > honestly i was stunned.
> >> >> > > i believe you have
> >> >> been told absoluetly wrong
> >> >> > history.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > do you know how much these
> kashmiri
> >> hindus
> >> >> have
> >> >> > suffered at the hands of
> >> >> > > muslims in kashmir?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > hindusthan is the only country
> which
> >> gave shelter
> >> >> to
> >> >> > people of your
> >> >> > > religion whole heartedly that
> was
> >> because
> >> >> hindusthan
> >> >> > is a hindu dominated
> >> >> > > country.
> >> >> > > i really wonder how can you try
> to
> >> befriend
> >> >> muslims,
> >> >> > basically how can you
> >> >> > > trust them? have you people not
> suffered
> >> at the
> >> >> hands
> >> >> > of muslims?
> >> >> > > have you not heard about
> 'muslim
> >> >> brotherhood'?
> >> >> > > rightnow, you may think that
> muslims in
> >> kashmir
> >> >> were
> >> >> > friendly with you
> >> >> > > hence they are nice. but are
> you sure
> >> that when
> >> >> you
> >> >> > fight with other muslim
> >> >> > > countries, these same kashmiri
> friends
> >> of yours
> >> >> will
> >> >> > support you against the
> >> >> > > latter?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > i sincerely feel, hindus, and
> not
> >> muslims
> >> >> can be
> >> >> > your natural allies.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > vedavati
> >> >> > > india
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Own a website.Get an unlimited
> >> package.Pay next
> >> >> to
> >> >> > nothing.* Click here!.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Explore and discover exciting
> holidays
> >> and
> >> >> getaways
> >> >> > with Yahoo! India
> >> >> > > Travel Click here!
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Explore and discover exciting
> holidays
> >> and
> >> >> getaways
> >> >> > with Yahoo! India
> >> >> > > Travel Click here!
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Explore and discover
> exciting
> >> >> holidays and
> >> >> > getaways with Yahoo! India
> >> >> > > Travel http://in.travel.yahoo.com/
> >> >> > >
> >> _________________________________________
> >> >> > > reader-list: an open discussion
> list on
> >> media and
> >> >> the
> >> >> > city.
> >> >> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> >> > > To subscribe: send an email to
> reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > > subscribe in the subject
> header.
> >> >> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> >> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > http://venukm.blogspot.com/
> >> >> >
> _________________________________________
> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list
> on media
> >> and the
> >> >> > city.
> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> >> > To
> >> >> subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >> >> > with subscribe in the subject
> header.
> >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> >>
> >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Cricket on your mind? Visit
> the
> >> >> > ultimate cricket website. Enter http://beta.cricket.yahoo.com
> >> >> >
> _________________________________________
> >> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list
> on media
> >> and the
> >> >> > city.
> >> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >> >> > with subscribe in the subject
> header.
> >> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> >>
> >> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Cricket on your mind? Visit
> the
> >> >> ultimate cricket website.
> >> >> Enter now!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________
> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media
> and the
> >> city.
> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
> >> with subscribe in the subject header.
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