[Reader-list] [Lalgarh Does not Exist]

subhrodip sengupta sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in
Fri Jun 26 01:25:29 IST 2009 

Dear all,
One remains unheard unless he makes some news. So what does he do? Wait and die, too weak to defend himself? POwerless to even arrange a bhook hartal before a house, lest his daughter bears the consequences of his act?
Even the leaders accpeted commiting some kind of excesses. But the army never does. . . . .  . The debate continues. Did lalgarh die? Naah it got official and will live down generations as History in official records.
And as far as rape and murder is concerned, no person should be deprived of honour absolutely, but 'no person.......... life' unless under self defence, for defence is the best Intervention. We read abut who were killed, not what they did, and the question one fails to answer is, double satndards one for a minority and other for a ruling party, why7 doesn't one point out to CPM controlled villages where countless attrocities are committed, but WE DO NOT KNOW about it, beacuse entry of media is not allowed and tapes are snatched!Bye the way, tribals are one source of cheap labour, darn cheap! 
Regards,
Subhrodip.




________________________________
From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com>
To: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Thursday, 25 June, 2009 5:28:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [Lalgarh Does not Exist]

Dear Kshemendra,

  this remedy suggested by you is like throwing the baby along with water
bath as baby is crying for cold water in the bath. The attempt is to save
the baby, throw the water which is cold and stale out. In democratic rule of
governance any sort of faith has no place, even rational approach to  life
also be misleading and is a faith of non-believer.!

  Violence for redressal of injustice and seeking justice by violence is not
acceptable , by anyone, for faith, for lack of it or for rational
thoughts.The remedy is in addrssing the maladies and delays in the system,
genuine efforts to rectify them, which is not a cure achievable like a
miracle, it needs sustained efforts by all of us in society.Corruption and
dogmas of faith can not survive unless all of us are positive in our
approach to negate the violence to show dissent.

Regards,
Rajen.

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Dear Rajen
>
> I think Anupam made a valid point which cannot be dismissed under
> generalisations.
>
> If I underrstood correctly, Anupam also finds unacceptable any violence
> whether perpetrated in the name of  "naxals" or "hindu right" or "muslim
> fundamentalism" or "zionism" or "violent evangelism".
>
> But Anupam would like "naxalism" and "maoism" to be looked at differently
> from the others mentioned. In this I agree with him.
>
> If India is a Democracy and supposed to be a Secular one, then Divinations
> or self-arrogation of believed in Divinely-ordained-Rights cannot be
> acceptable. Religion by itself is based on irrationalities, or to use a
> kinder word "Belief". In the name of a Religion, words and acts that create
> divides or pronounce the superiority of one over the other cannot be
> acceptable. Violence in the name of Religion is an attempt to enforce the
> acceptance of such presumed superiority. Sorry Sir! Not acceptable.
>
> Where Naxalism and Maoism differ is in their being based not on
> irrationalities but in 'dissatisfactions' provoked by being subjected to
> Discrimination; Exploitation; Unjust Treatment; Non-Availability of Justice:
> Non-Delivery of Justice.
>
> The violence, excesses, depravations in the name of Religion can simply be
> done away with by doing away with Religions or as is more practical by doing
> away with the Recognition of Religions (by the State, while they may
> continue as private affairs). Doing either or at least the latter will not
> be a loss to humankind.
>
> To do away with the violence, depravations, excesses in the name of
> "Naxalism" and "Maoism" we will need to do away with the "  Discrimination;
> Exploitation; Unjust Treatment; Non-Availability of Justice: Non-Delivery of
> Justice.". That will only make the world better.
>
> I hope you can recognise the offered distinction between the two sets.
>
> In any case, Anupam too does not find acceptable the violence in the name
> of "Naxalism", "Maoism" either.
>
> Religious-Extremism needs to be supressed. Social-Extremism needs to be
> addressed with credible solutions.
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 6/25/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [Lalgarh Does not Exist]
> To: "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 1:18 PM
>
>
> Dear Anupam,
>
> it is not pertinent whether you cite millions or few hundreds, of the
> incidents of crime and violence, the issue is such criminals have to be
> taken care by rule of laws, no justification or excuse that it is
> "reaction"
> to action will suffice, is unjustifiable.
>
> With population of over one billion, the incidents of deviants have to be
> dealt firmly, according to laws, judicial system fine tunes to act quickly,
> as justice is not only to be delivered, but seen to be as
> delivered.Individuals or group of individuals becoming vigilantes or
> delivering justice vecause the system is slow is only compounding the
> issues
> in to bigger problems of law and order as the law keepers will be
> outnumbered by such mobs, and chaos will be the result in society fo all
> citizens.Justifying any type of violence is absolutely absurd, as it only
> encourages the individuals to form a critical mass of numbers of
> individuals
> to indulge in violence, extortion, rape and ilegal acts on other citizens.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rajen.
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:03 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=c.anupam@gmail.com>
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear Rajen,
> >
> > Sir i can cite millions of similar examples from the north east, who have
> > been killed selectively for the past 19 years from Assam, Manipur,
> > Nagaland.
> > You may not even find chargesheets for them. the only witness is a lone
> > wife, or a mother or a sister. you know people usually dont lie about
> > missing people and suffer the prying eyes of the society. At least we
> know
> > that Sadhvi Pragya is in a custody. What are your thought 1192 persons
> > including wife of one Satish Mishra burnt in the Godhra train carnage,
> who
> > is officially still missing in the police records. these are the seeds of
> > discontent that lawmakers are sowing -- the so called morally upright. i
> > have no sympathies for sadhvi or any one who is abetting or encouraging
> > these activities even in the case of naxals but i would be interested as
> to
> > find the root of all these discontentment. however, if i am asked to rank
> > naxals and hindu right or muslim fundamentalism or zionism or violent
> > evangelism, i would say naxals or maoists are more real and have a better
> > ideology than fundamentalists. at least in their aims, they are supposed
> > to be fighting for the cause of the downtrodden. my only cause of concern
> > is
> > the use of violent means to gather support and selective killing of the
> > feudal lord by the naxals. however, fundamentalism doesnt deserve a space
> > in
> > the democracy. never...never. it is evil to think that i am a hindu
> > that's why i should rule the land and be the law...its purely evil.
> >
> > thanks anupam
> >
> > On 6/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rajen786uppinangady@gmail.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > dear Anupam,
> > >
> > >    a citizen of the nation only becomes the politician , police officer
> > or
> > > law keeper and elite security personnel, Any one who breaks law has to
> be
> > > under  scanner of same rule of laws, democracy in practice is where
> > > irrespective of the status, faith or contents of the  purse of the
> > > individual, rule of laws prevails. But we see different yardsticks
> being
> > > used by our citizens on different occassions, just one example, a 28
> year
> > > old lady is in custody of SIT in mumbai for months now, with
> > investigation
> > > not showing any progress or proof, but we talk of our concerns,worry
> > about
> > > some,  selectively, not about this lady, because she is labeled as
> > sadhvi.?
> > > What about human rights of this lady and eleven others who for the sake
> > of
> > > vote gains, division of votes were arrested by a ruthless fuedal leader
> > > using honest cop, Hemanth karkare.?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 3:52 PM, anupam chakravartty <
> c.anupam at gmail.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=c.anupam@gmail.com>
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> dear rajen,
> > >>
> > >> you should have included the politicians, the police officials, CRPF
> > >> members
> > >> who take violent measures to quell violence. its ironical but true as
> > well
> > >> as in several places in andhra pradesh, manipur, kashmir. politicians
> > are
> > >> biggest sympathiser of such actions..they are equally responsible.
> > instead
> > >> of question why such violent forms of dissent are happening across the
> > >> nation, you are just discussing what forms of dissent should be
> > employed.
> > >> why there should be so much of strife? unless you dont understand and
> > >> express your thoughts about that talking merely about violence becomes
> > >> irrelevant.
> > >>
> > >> second, inclusion of binayak sen and teesta setalvad along with
> praveen
> > >> togadia makes your argument really weak here. because you seem to have
> > one
> > >> yardstick to measure everyone -- either you are with us ( the
> so-called
> > >> law
> > >> abiding citizens) or you are an enemy of the state. however problems
> in
> > >> this nation exist in particular as it is a diverse country. even
> several
> > >> state security agencies do not employ similar measures in tackling
> with
> > >> the issues in chattisgarh to quell naxalite movement, while keeping
> the
> > >> communal rioting at bay. so how are presenting binayak sen and praveen
> > >> togadia in the same pedestal. the word "sympathiser" has several
> > >> connotations. you can sympathise with the cause that a particular
> > movement
> > >> is raising but may not sympathise the means by which solutions to the
> > >> problem are being taken by these banned organisations.
> > >>
> > >> -thanks anupam
> > >>
> > >> On 6/24/09, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rajen786uppinangady@gmail.com>
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Dear All,
> > >> >
> > >> >    any citizen, in his / her excercise of rights of freedom to
> > >> expression
> > >> > can express his/her views in democratic India, but taking laws into
> > >> their
> > >> > own hands as a way of demonstration of protest is not acceptable in
> > any
> > >> > society, as this violence not only hurts the innocents, but also
> > >> destroys
> > >> > the civil liberties of citizens and violence only begets more of it.
> > Be
> > >> it
> > >> > naxalites, maoists, fanatics of any faith, when they resort to
> violent
> > >> > means
> > >> > of addressing the issues that they percieve as wrong, it destroys
> the
> > >> > societal harmony, liberties of the citizens, worse, it ushers in
> > >> atrocities
> > >> > by the state machinery on every citizen under assumption that he/she
> > is
> > >> > "sympathiser"
> > >> > of such violent actions of these groups. Binayak Sen and all other
> > well
> > >> > meaning individuals  of naxalites also fall in this category,just as
> a
> > >> > praveen togadia or afjal guru and geelanis and theestas of the
> nation.
> > >> Let
> > >> > the laws of the land take firm and definite action against law
> > breakers,
> > >> > whether in uniform or citizens of the nation, only rule of laws
> which
> > if
> > >> > impartial, non partisan, without fear or favour acts on the deviants
> > in
> > >> the
> > >> > society, the democracy will floursh, dissent without violent action
> to
> > >> > express dissent is acceptable, but dissent in the form of violence
> is
> > >> not
> > >> > acceptable in civil society.
> > >> >
> > >> > Regards,
> > >> >
> > >> > Rajen..
> > >> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:14 PM, subhrodip sengupta <
> > >> > sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sub_sengupta@yahoo.co.in>>
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Maoist spokesman detained in Kolkata for questioning. Finally to
> > >> threaten
> > >> > > these people you yeild the rod in central Kolkata. Nothing new,
> they
> > >> had
> > >> > > always been. Now specially when govt gets itchy over NAxalite's
> > >> strategy,
> > >> > > what aft But detaining spokespersons or message bearers is against
> > >> > > politics.. Naah these guys wanna rub out the traits of Maoism from
> > all
> > >> > books
> > >> > > in India, something in which the Khilji's failed. Bad luck, Mr.
> > >> > Chakravorty,
> > >> > > you are in the police net. As for Central Kol., it has always
> > >> woitnessed
> > >> > > police attrocities for the last decade. Off course there might be
> > some
> > >> > bomb,
> > >> > > etc. but isnt this guy a herald. A few women were similarly held
> in
> > >> Delhi
> > >> > > recently on same allegations without substantial proof as if thus
> > the
> > >> > > ideology can be erased and the system and the ranks rationalised.
> > This
> > >> > came
> > >> > > hopefully as a reaction to a pro-people's assembly where some
> noted
> > >> > > activist threated to arrange a Dharna before writers and
> BUddhadev's
> > >> > office,
> > >> > > with
> > >> > >  off course many Maoists, if CPI(ML) was banned. The ideology is
> > >> clearly
> > >> > > more dangerous and revolutionary than the army! Messing up things
> > will
> > >> > > definitely not help, Mr. Bhattacharya! LAlgarh lives on, as a
> > >> revolution.
> > >> > > Does First War of Independance( Ok revolt of 1857 exist?)
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >      Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights
> > and
> > >> > > more. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com
> > >> > > _________________________________________
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> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Rajen..
> > >> > _________________________________________
> > >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > >> > Critiques & Collaborations
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> > >> > subscribe in the subject header.
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> > >> _________________________________________
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> > >> Critiques & Collaborations
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rajen.
> > >
> > >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Rajen.
> _________________________________________
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>
>


-- 
Rajen.
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