[Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims

Wed May 6 13:21:54 IST 2009

Dear Bipin,

Before discussing me in this condescending, at least reply to my mails. I
had posed number questions in this thread as well as several. WHERE ARE YOUR
ANSWERS?

please do not talk about dharma. and you are no one to discuss the condition
of minority, when you selectively preach about hindutva.

i am as opposed to the established secular lobby, as opposed to favourtism.
But then in my opposition, am i supposed to make blanket assertions about a
whole community or a whole society? if i am not not blaming the whole hindu
community for producing a sadhvi pragya, how do you get the right to discuss
muslims in this reader's list? all discussions begin with what muslims ought
to do and what not. that they should just pay obeisance to one national flag
and anthem as if all hindus pay their tributes when national anthem.
starting a topic here is so goddamn easy. it is so comfortable for you to
say things against a particular community, that too so easily. and bipin,
now you have to audacity to say that i am under influence of some people. i
think to put in my crass hindi: *tumhari jal gayee hai. *
**
let me tell you one last thing. this act of commodify a religion, making
blanket statements about all its participants must stop for once and for
all.

-anupam

**
On 5/6/09, bipin <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
>
> Dear Chanchal,
>
> You are right. So called secular were never interested in improving the
> standard of living of minority, but they want to play with them only for
> their vote bank and person like Anupam comes under influence of them.
>
> In India, I think, who speak for or create show to speak for minority is
> secular and who speak for majority is communal. This is the definition of
> secularism prevailing in India.
>
>
> The real secularism is to give equal respect and treatment to all the
> religions (dharma).
>
>
>
> But, what is religion or what is Dharma? It is very complicated question.
>
>
> The real religion or dharma is the work you do honestly and sincerely
> allotted to you. For Ex. You have to take care of your new born child and
> make him/her self sufficient by giving good culture, education, discipline,
> fighting spirit etc. Instead of this if you remain in the activities like
> prayer in temples/mosque and devote the time after god only is not the real
> dharma you are adopting. You carry on your duty sincerely and honestly you
> have to do at the different stages of life is the real dharma or religion.
>
>
> thanks
> BIPIN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "chanchal malviya" <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com>
> To: "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>; "sarai list" <
> reader-list at sarai.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims
>
>
> > Dear Anupam,
> >
> > You are conflicting your own sentence...   You said, national anthem is
> sung when you feel for your country...
> > The direct meaning of this sentence is 'One will not sing the National
> Anthem if he do not feel for the Country'
> >
> > There is no question of force.... I never said that any anti-national
> should be forced to sing the Anthem... not all..
> >
> > If Saffron is my color... let me understand what is your color....   Why
> was the Flag of India not completely white... If Saffron color is wrong, why
> it is there in the Flag at all... I wonder if you have ever told to the
> Terrorist that they have Greenized websites... I am sure you have never told
> so...
> >
> > Because you do not have answers to the Saffrons, whose area of operation
> are within their own country... and they have come up as powers to respond
> to them who are harming Humanity in India (eg Conversion program of
> Christian by buying through money and for humanitarian reason, infiltration
> of Crores of Bangladeshis, etc.).. Unfortunately, Saffrons has to do this
> because people like you supports them (as Congress, CPIM dos)...  And
> fighting for the protection is Crime and rhetoric for you... doesn't
> matter....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> > To: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 10:54:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims
> >
> > dear chanchal
> >
> > national anthem is sung when you feel for your country. not out of force.
> > please spare the national anthem at least from your rhetoric that sounds
> > like ones that you get to read in the saffronised websites.
> >
> > at least be geniune in your critique. mugging up points from a propaganda
> > site would not really help.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > anupam
> >
> >
> > On 5/6/09, chanchal malviya <chanchal_malviya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Indian Muslims are those whose forefathers betrayed with their own base
> >> foundation Hinduism - either out of fear or lust.
> >> Indian Muslims are those who historically didn't play a major role in
> >> Indian Independence, and rather took lead in Khilafat with Gandhi (the
> >> apostole of peace) to massacre over 10,000 Hindus in the name of God...
> >> Indian Muslims are those who established a thick line in 1947 that they
> >> cannot live with Hindus who unfortunately happens to be their own
> ancestral
> >> brothers...
> >> India Muslims now have loosed their credibility of being a part of
> >> Nationalist attitude by publicly denying to accept National Anthem,
> National
> >> Song and denying Bharat as maata... when these things should have
> nothing to
> >> take with Hindus... but now slogans like 'Bharat maata ki Jai', 'Jana
> gana
> >> mana', 'vande maatram'... are all part of only Hindu culture...
> >> Indian Muslims are now a partners of Terrorism, and by and large
> declared
> >> Terrorism... most of their leaders shout publicly that every Muslim
> should
> >> be a terrorist with some logical background that terrorism should be for
> >> non-believers often purified through management language...
> >> Indian Muslims or any Muslim in this world (barring exceptions - 1 to 2
> %
> >> of the population), has to re-establish their credibility that they are
> >> humans and worshipers of humanity first before unknown, unseen God who
> >> according to them hates, prepares fire of hell, prepared heaven with
> houris
> >> and virgins, asks people to murder...
> >>
> >> WHO WILL SOLVE THIS IGNORANCE OF HATRED IN THE NAME OF GOD - ONLY
> HINDUS...
> >> That is the reason Muslims have existed from over thousand years in
> India,
> >> and Hindus and others have been eliminated from Islamic lands...
> >> Historically proven, demography of today proves this...
> >>
> >> One should not enforce their own intolerance upon Hindus in the name of
> >> Babri and Gujarat Riots... They must go back into 1000 years of History
> >> which created Babri.. Kashmir.. and Godhra...  One must talk of CAUSE
> and
> >> not EFFECT alone... The Effect on Hindus are much deeper than anything
> else
> >> in this world...
> >>
> >> The well integrated four Varnas - popularly known as Aryas - were
> divided
> >> and remains divided because of Invasion and Western Politics still
> ruling
> >> this nation...
> >> The ever free women of India were put under 'Ghunghat' for ever to hide
> >> their face from the Islamic looters... Brahmins had to impose child
> marriage
> >> among Hindus because their girls were picked away at an early age in the
> >> name of 'Virgin' given by God to Islamic rapers... British took
> advantage of
> >> this and teached the whole population that these are the raw culture of
> >> Hinduism...
> >>
> >> Unfortunate, the same Best Scientists, Philosophers, Pschologists and
> all
> >> failed to defeat Swami Vivekananda who put Hinduism on top of everything
> on
> >> their land... Read him, read Hinduism from its scripture (and not from
> the
> >> mouth of Dr. Zakir Naik)... and you will know that WORLD LIVES BECAUSE
> >> HINDUISM IS ALIVE EVEN IN ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY...
> >>
> >> A person respecting his parents is Hinduism, A person loyarl to his
> >> Religous Guru is Hinduism, A person dedicated to his job is Hinduism, A
> >> person marrying and leading a stable family is Hinduism... A person
> getting
> >> spiritual in line with God is Hinduism...
> >> You may change the books, induce impurity in the name of God in those
> >> books... but the truth will ever remain... The world exists because of
> >> Hinduism and the world will exist only as long as Hinduism is alive -
> >> directly or indirectly....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: M Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com>
> >> To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
> >> Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 5:38:01 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims
> >>
> >> Dear Kshmendra
> >>
> >> Who is an Indian Muslim?
> >>
> >> We need to answer this before we can answer your "...should they be
> >> thinking about using the Islamic flag..."
> >>
> >> Javed
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > QUOTE:
> >> >
> >> > It also carried drawings of two white and black flags, the former
> being
> >> the main flag of Holy Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him) and the
> latter
> >> his military standard. Even now, black-turbaned TNSM members carry the
> small
> >> white and black flags as they walk ahead of Sufi Mohammad. ......
> UNQUOTE
> >> >
> >> > This quote is from an article on Maulana Sufi Mohammad written by
> >> Rahimullah Yusufzai.
> >> > http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=175825
> >> >
> >> > No green flag. No crescent and star on it.
> >> >
> >> > The green flag with the crescent and star on it which is used by
> Indian
> >> Muslims has often caused misunderstandings.
> >> >
> >> > One recent example has been Simi Garewal talking about Pakistani Flags
> >> being flown by Indian Muslims. She apologised later for having mistaken
> the
> >> Islamic Flag of the Indian Muslims for the Pakistani Flag.
> >> >
> >> > The close resemblance between the 2 flags confused even Anupam
> >> Chakravartty, who inspite of video coverage from Times Now showing it to
> be
> >> a Pakistani Flag, insisted that what was flown in Assam with " sickle
> (sic)
> >> and star on green background  is an islamic symbol"
> >> > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2009-April/018755.html
> >> >
> >> > In an earlier mail I had commented:
> >> >
> >> > """""" If this is factual, then the question arises for the Indian
> >> Muslims that should they be thinking about using the Islamic Flag
> without
> >> the Crescent and Star so that it does not appear to be close to being
> the
> >> flag of Pakistan? """"""
> >> > http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2008-December/017016.html
> >> >
> >> > Just thinking aloud
> >> >
> >> > Kshmendra
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________
> >> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> > Critiques & Collaborations
> >> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >> _________________________________________
> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________
> >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> >> Critiques & Collaborations
> >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> >> subscribe in the subject header.
> >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>