[Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims

[anupam chakravartty]

dear kshmendra,

i would not have taken chanchal's name in the mail if it were your comments.
in case if there is any miscommunication on my part, i apologise. but yes
that mail was written in a fit of rage and frustration. and yes i have every
right to say which topic should be discussed in this reader's list as i am a
reader. i welcome moderator's intervention.

besides that i have nothing much to say. i said what i could what i am
capable of. enough has been said. bipin went overboard saying things against
safdar hashmi, which was very very unfortunate. i never thought someone
could stoop to such levels. so you can at least forgive for making any
intentional/unintentional attack on you. i guess you can.

with regards and apologies
anupam


On 5/7/09, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>   Dear Anupam
>
> You foist on me an identity crisis. You start of by addressing me by my
> name and towards the end call me Chanchal. But you are not alone in such
> abuse. Inder elsewhere  compared me with Modi. (Please treat this as a very
> lighthearted comment).
>
> Anupam one cannot impose or be selective in wishing what topics
> are discussed on this List or to what extent. Only Moderator intervention
> can ensure that.
>
> Any topic or issue on which there is public discourse can find it's way in
> this public space too.
>
> Let me tell you in all sincerity (if you can trust such a declaration by
> me) that I do understand the spirit of what you have stated. But, I think
> you are being unreasonable.
>
> Since we easily lose perspective of where a particulat thread has started,
> I was not talking about Indian Muslims but the Islamic Flag used by Indian
> Muslims. In retrospect, I could have said "Islamic Flag used by SOME Indian
> Muslims". That would have been an idiotically unneccesary distinction to
> stress upon but perhaps that is what I should have done. One learns.
>
> But, if someone chooses to divert a topic to a direction of their own
> choosing, they will use any excuse. That is exactly what happened by Javed
> asking me "Who is an Indian Muslim?"
>
> Hell my friend (not you AC) that might be a topic of interest to you but
> here I am talking about the Islam Flag used by Indian Muslims AND the close
> resemblance it bears to the Pakistani Flag AND the misunderstandings it
> causes. Aisa Hota Hai (It happens)
>
> Again the Assam Bodo-Muslim / Pakistani Flag topic was of interest to you
> AC and you picked on that just because I said that even AC made a mistake
> over the Flag dictinctions. In your case I benefitted from your very
> interesting comments on that particular issue.
>
> This issue of "Who Indian Muslim, What Indian Muslim, Why Indian Muslim"
> might provide intellectual fodder for some but that Identity Type is one
> which is in the public space of discourse.
>
> I posted 3 article from a Web forum, guess what it is called - INDIAN
> MUSLIMS. All 3 article dealt with issues concerning guess who - INDIAN
> MUSLIMS. Guess who has authored them - INDIAN MUSLIMS.
>
> I do agree that one cannot reduce every issue that might be unique in its
> dimensions (even though it might arise from one common Identity Type) to
> being applicable as a comment about everyone belonging to that Identity
> Type. But at the same time it would idiotic to dismiss that certain
> references (even as every single individual in that Identity Type  might not
> subscribe to it) can be mentioned as a generalisation about that Identity
> Type.
>
> If I were to say "For centuries now Hindus have allowed or been exploited
> by the most degraded and inhuman precepts to be propagated and practiced in
> the name of a presumed Dharmshastra called Manu Smriti", it would be idiotic
> for anyone to respond with "Who Hindu, What Hindu, Why Hindu, answer that
> before we tell you whether we agree with you or not"
>
> Khair, Aisa Hota Hai (It happens). It happens when there is no intent to
> seriously think over an issue but instead subvert.
>
> As I told you earlier I do understand the spirit of what you have stated. I
> have no strong disagreement with the rest of your mail, though my attitude
> is different from yours regarding " Do you think we, as a nation, are ready
> to discuss religion ....." AND "I do not have any right to express criticism
> about a religion, which I do not belong to."
>
> I will not dwell on those.
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 5/6/09, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Islamic Flag of Indian Muslims
> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 6, 2009, 8:26 PM
>
> Dear Kshmendra,
>
>
>
> I have just one problem when such issues are being raised. Why are we
> discussing Indian Muslims as a whole because a relief camp in some corner of
> this country facing an ethnic conflict? Do you think we, as a nation, are
> ready to discuss religion when it is in such a fragile state having clowns
> as leaders? Hardening of religious identities are taking precedence over the
> basic amenities that a person, a human being, deserves in this country. My
> sole objective is to dispel this hardening of our religious identities. And
> obviously, keeping in mind the hardening of Hindu identity, which is
> scattered worries me more. I feel in process of hardening Hindu identity it
> would loose its very essence, its intangible, meditative nature, which one
> can experience without even going to a temple. I am equally scared of the
> hardening of Muslim identity in the country.
>
>
>
> However, I am a Hindu by birth, so I shall only be criticizing, questioning
> my faith. I do not have any right to express criticism about a religion,
> which I do not belong to. In that way, I feel I can deride this majoritarian
> tendency of some power hungry individuals to dominate the religion and mould
> its identity in such a way that it can allow only chosen few things to grow.
> When several studies are done to explore this religion, find out finer
> aspects where this religion gets fused with local forms of worship, there
> are another set of people trying to shape up a pan-Indian identity of this
> religion by raising issues about an ancient mosque and grandiose plan to
> make a temple and turn it into a tourist spot. Next thing I will know is
> that Ram is tall muscular DC comic like warrior forgetting the effeminate
> imagery of Ram the compassionate one, Tulsidas’ Ram, or Mahatma Gandhi’s
> Ram. Ram, who would not have built a temple by destroying another’s place of
> worship. Chanchal, don’t you think this is worse than the forced
> conversions?
>
>
>
> Ironically, a generalised statement: “we do not have food to eat” is
> difficult to assert about a nation following the logical and statistical
> problems that it may create, But I am surprised that we are comfortable in
> the blame game of who caused the first religious strife and asserting
> generalised opinions about specific community. Call me a communist,
> sickular, whatever you want. The struggle is not about religion; it’s about
> being territorial behaving like canines. Who gets to own more land
> irrespective of what colour your flag is.
>
>
> Anupam
>
>
>