[Reader-list] Election Forecast

[anupam chakravartty]

The Indian left was not really leftist in its ideals as demonstrated in case
of Nandigram, in case of Chengkara in Kerela. Most of the trade unions have
been fractured and stand at the mercy of the AITUC or INTUC or Mazdoor
Sabha, which are nothing but an extention of corporate greed. Now in garb of
trade unionism, religious fanactism is peddled by union leaders to organise
workers

Although, i agree that this election served as deterrent for BJP leaders
such as Modi. However, Varun Gandhi cashed in on his hate speech. Pilibhit,
where Hindus and Muslim carpenter used to work together would never be the
same. So even if t in totality you express your satisfaction over UPA's
performance, people such Varun Gandhi has managed to carve a place for
himself. Now just imagine this man in the Lok Sabha!

FYI, the concept of opposing religious fanactism is not just from left. we
are talking about religious reformation so that behemoths such as  bajrang
dal, al-qaeda, ku klux klan and similar outfits loose their relevance. but
left's idea of keeping religions as a personal and on extremes banning
religions is extremely problemmatic.

thanks anupam

On 5/17/09, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:

> yes, Modi, the killer Modi, the next PM in waiting, knows quite well
> how to take care of people like me,
>
> he must have improved on how to burn people more and more with less
> and less fire.
> and i predict now, that people like Varun Gandhi and Modi have no
> future in politics, if they paly this hate card too often.
>
> yes, Trade Unions for millions of Indian and many more in the world
> are like temples for of the masses.
> these unions have given them bread and butter, and in absence of Trade
> Unionism
> one can only imagine how much the cannibalistic greed of a corporate
> loves to devour ....
>
> the other benefit of living with the concept of Trade Union is that
> you develop some sensitivity towards the oppressed masses, the weaker
> sections of our society, which otherwise was not possible.
>
> Singing Bahajans, and following Mullah ji's  fundamentalist paths dont
> lead a common man to a firm destination.
>
> Religous Fanaticism has been rejected by people in this elections,
> The verdict is the endorsement of the the concept of Left, indirectly.
>
> how can the victorious congress negate that initiatives  made by the
> Left in the first place.
>
> With one exception of  MK Gandhi who in the congress party did not
> benefit from the convictions of the communists thought,.
>
> yes, still, the bad element in the congress is Right (religious ), and
> the good element is Left ( socialist/communist ), and the good
> elements dominates, right now,
>
> any doubts Mr. AR Kaul
>
> with love
> is
>
>
> .
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:45 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul
> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > seems Inder Salim has been working in a navratan oil company and tired of
> > the left trade union :P How else would he have so much information about
> > Advaniji ?
> >
> > Don't worry Inder Sali, you will have your job; Modi is there still to
> take
> > care of you.
> >
> > Manali is a far dream still for you.
> >
> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 1:37 AM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> better than gratuity, ADvani ji might promote Nano car of Tata Ji
> >>
> >> and some advertise NAVRATTAN OIL,
> >>
> >>  i am sure  he will outwit AmitabBachan on that
> >>
> >> and earn more bucks, to  enjoy trout fish with red wine in Manali with
> >>  VajPAYEE Ji
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Great show by Congress .....
> >> >
> >> > However the best thing about this election was the worst performance
> of
> >> Left
> >> > in last 40 years.
> >> >
> >> > Advani Ji now needs a peaceful retirement and perhaps may be rewarded
> >> with
> >> > Gratuity and other benefits.....
> >> >
> >> > Pawan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Dear all
> >> >>
> >> >> I had gone out, so apologies (if required) for the delay.
> >> >>
> >> >> Unlike Anupam jee, I don't have problems with people changing their
> >> views
> >> >> provided they stick to it. So I won't comment on that.
> >> >>
> >> >> What I will comment on are some interesting thoughts. First of all,
> >> India
> >> >> has a parliamentary system where people choose their representatives
> on
> >> the
> >> >> first by post principle, and there are a number of factors at play.
> What
> >> is
> >> >> certainly not a factor (neither in 2004 nor in 2009 as CSDS surveys
> done
> >> by
> >> >> Yogendra Yadav repeatedly indicate) is the issue of the Prime
> Minister.
> >> >>
> >> >> Forget Advani or Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi or Narendra Modi.
> Even
> >> if
> >> >> Lord Krishna, Lord Ram, Prophet Muhammad or Jesus Christ were to
> stand
> >> for
> >> >> the post of Prime Minister, it would hardly make an effect, simply
> >> because
> >> >> people don't vote for personalities as PM. The major issues before
> >> people
> >> >> are concerned with their livelihood, be it 'roti, kapda and makan',
> >> water,
> >> >> health (this means a good hospital with working people and working
> >> >> equipments in the village or nearby places), good connection to
> cities
> >> >> through roads, education, and in this particular issue, two more
> issues
> >> >> were
> >> >> important: inflation and security.
> >> >>
> >> >> So actually, the BJP did have issues to fight with: inflation and
> >> >> terrorism.
> >> >> Except that BJP doesn't have a great record in them either.
> >> >>
> >> >> As far as inflation is concerned, I can only remind of the 1998
> >> elections
> >> >> in
> >> >> Delhi, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, where BJP suffered a 440-KV
> shock
> >> on
> >> >> losing state elections. And as for terrorism, we all know how they
> >> fared.
> >> >> The Kandahar fiasco, the Parliament attack, the Godhra incident (I
> >> mention
> >> >> this here because the Gujarat BJP unit repeatedly mentioned this as
> an
> >> >> ISI-sponsored attack, so they can clarify on this. I mention it as an
> >> >> intelligence failure), the Akshardham temple attack, the Raghunath
> >> temple
> >> >> attack, the bomb blasts in Mulund and Ghatkopar, and so on. So before
> >> >> throwing stones at others, the BJP should look at its' own shallow
> >> record
> >> >> with respect to terror in the past.
> >> >>
> >> >> And on top of all this, then they have the foolishness in them to say
> >> that
> >> >> L.K. Advani is a strong leader. And to indicate this, they had
> posters
> >> >> showing Advani clenching his fists! Great! That way we could have put
> >> one
> >> >> of
> >> >> the wrestlers who had won a bronze medal for us in Olympics 2008 as
> the
> >> PM
> >> >> candidate! Nobody could have been stronger than that!
> >> >>
> >> >> Strength doesn't come by repeatedly saying that 'I am strong'. A
> person
> >> who
> >> >> is strong will never say that about himself; it's others who say that
> >> about
> >> >> him. Here we had Advani shooting off his own mouth about how strong
> he
> >> was.
> >> >> And people knew how to respond.
> >> >>
> >> >> Secondly, contrary to your statements Vedavati jee, the BJP hasn't
> done
> >> >> that
> >> >> well as expected. In MP, it was expected to win more than 20 seats.
> And
> >> >> Congress was not certainly expecting 10 seats which it won there. As
> for
> >> >> Rajasthan, BJP has been wiped out when compared to last election.
> Only
> >> >> Chhatisgarh and Gujarat are the states where BJP has done better than
> >> >> previous times, in addition to Jharkhand of course.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thirdly, you are right. BJP should have expanded their base. But base
> >> could
> >> >> have been expanded by throwing away Hindutva (which ironically brings
> to
> >> >> them supporters like you but alienates many), and trying to become a
> >> >> right-centrist party. People would have had no problems if BJP had no
> >> trust
> >> >> on Pakistan, wanted India to become a super-power, and had stated
> that
> >> they
> >> >> weren't embarassed on their Hindu roots.
> >> >>
> >> >> Instead, the BJP just seems hell bent on attacking minorities where
> and
> >> >> when
> >> >> they can (Kandhamal and Karnataka being best examples) and then wants
> >> >> Muslims and Christians to vote for them! How do they expect a Muslim
> >> woman
> >> >> to vote for them when under their reign, she was raped in the name of
> >> 'Jai
> >> >> Shree Ram' by activists related to the larger parivar to which the
> BJP
> >> >> belongs?
> >> >>
> >> >> Similarly on the issue of appeasement. It is right that the Congress
> and
> >> >> others have practiced Muslim appeasement. But does this mean Muslims
> >> should
> >> >> be punished? When Muslims haven't progressed, then it's the fault of
> the
> >> >> Congress. How are they being then 'pampered'? Vote bank politics is
> >> >> actually
> >> >> to disadvantage of Muslims, and the BJP should have come to their
> rescue
> >> by
> >> >> providing them development. Instead, the BJP gave them post-Godhra as
> >> gift.
> >> >>
> >> >> Fourth. Can Bipin jee inform me (or anybody else for that matter) as
> to
> >> the
> >> >> proceedings under NDA which point to RTI? I would be glad to know.
> >> >>
> >> >> Fifth. Swathi jee, I think you raised two vital points. I agree with
> you
> >> >> that it's not the Congress or the Left (do read this Bipin jee, this
> is
> >> for
> >> >> you too) which brought either the NREGA or the RTI, it's the social
> >> >> movements which brought them. And I appreciate the courage they
> showed
> >> in
> >> >> their movement and the pressure they exerted, which was accepted by
> the
> >> >> Left
> >> >> at very late stage, and finally this act was introduced. One must
> never
> >> >> forget the kind of pressure exerted by the Times of India-Economic
> >> >> Times-Ambani-English mainstream media-their elitist friends combine,
> to
> >> >> ensure the NREGA never got passed.
> >> >>
> >> >> But the larger point also remains that this govt did pass it. Would
> the
> >> NDA
> >> >> have ever passed it? You know better than me what the answer to that
> >> would
> >> >> be. Therefore, we must accept their small contribution to getting
> this
> >> act
> >> >> passed and appreciate it, though the first credit to it lies with all
> >> those
> >> >> who fought tooth and nail in the first place to get the act passed.
> >> >>
> >> >> And Bipin jee, the NREGA was brought through a social movement.
> Better
> >> go
> >> >> and find about it rather than cribbing about policies you don't know
> a
> >> >> thing
> >> >> about. And as for your infrastructural development, the people of
> India
> >> >> would want NREGA first rather than the Golden Quadrilateral.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The second point Swathi jee has raised is about an elected PM.
> >> Personally,
> >> >> I
> >> >> would have liked Manmohan Singh jee to fight the election and win it.
> >> That
> >> >> would have silenced many people who always look upon him as the
> 'stooge
> >> of
> >> >> Sonia'. However, unlike others, I wouldn't feel so bad about it. The
> >> larger
> >> >> issue is always the livelihood of people, and while Sonia may not
> have
> >> the
> >> >> responsibilities of the PM, she has the responsibilities of ensuring
> her
> >> >> party wins elections. Therefore, even if the PM doesn't listen, she
> has
> >> to
> >> >> listen to the voice of India, as she had to in the case of NREGA and
> >> RTI.
> >> >>
> >> >> Therefore, I don't worry much whether Manmohan is elected or not. I
> >> though
> >> >> have another reason as to why a PM should be elected.
> >> >>
> >> >> When a PM like say Vajpayee gets elected and then becomes PM, he
> knows
> >> the
> >> >> ways and means to win elections. And therefore he equally knows when
> to
> >> >> start something, where to stop (why, where and when), where to set
> >> agendas
> >> >> and where to start working upon them. Manmohan I don't think has that
> >> >> political experience an elected PM have to manage his allies. This is
> >> clear
> >> >> from the way he reacted at different times to the nuclear deal. His
> >> >> reactions wouldn't have changed so much had he been an elected PM.
> >> Perhaps
> >> >> he could have handled the Left better in that case.
> >> >>
> >> >> But again this is only my speculation. It may be true, or it may be
> >> false.
> >> >>
> >> >> And democracy is not about elections. It is about giving rights to
> >> citizens
> >> >> and ensure that they are indeed actually provided those rights. So an
> >> >> elected PM or not is not a big issue.
> >> >>
> >> >> What is are the rights of people to secure their livelihood.
> >> >>
> >> >> If the BJP gains this huge lesson from this election, I would be the
> >> most
> >> >> happy person on this planet. And my frustration at this not happening
> is
> >> >> what made me write in a nasty way, for which I am sorry. I would not
> >> repeat
> >> >> that again.
> >> >>
> >> >> And if the BJP doesn't learn it, then we need another party to come
> at
> >> >> centre to fight against Congress and displace BJP from its pole.
> >> >>
> >> >> And finally, the last word from one of my friends who also happens to
> be
> >> a
> >> >> member of this list:
> >> >>
> >> >> The BJP lost because the revenues obtained through growth are spent
> only
> >> to
> >> >> further growth. The Congress won because it spent partially the
> revenues
> >> >> obtained through growth to bring up the poor to above-subsistence
> level
> >> and
> >> >> contributed in some measure to equitable development in this manner.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards
> >> >>
> >> >> Rakesh
> >> >> _________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> > _________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> >> _________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Aditya Raj Kaul
> > _________________________________________
> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > Critiques & Collaborations
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>
>
>
> --
>
> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> _________________________________________
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