[Reader-list] plight of the muslim women and appeasement
A.K. Malik
akmalik45 at yahoo.com
Sun May 24 10:53:11 IST 2009
Dear Mr Sengupta,
My observations on your comments please:
A) A boy doesn't usually like to marry a girl more educated than him barring exceptions.Reason-male ego.
B)Cities it is definitely more. Average would be around 22 years.IN villages, it is almost never 12th even and (for muslim girls, it may still be lower).
C) The question is not clear, what transfer signify here.May be I missed some mails.
D) Free education including fees and uniform and in some states free meals as well definitely increases level of participation for girl children belonging to poor parents who can't afford to send them to schools (boys being priority). There are known cases where the girls miss their classes when the father/mother is unable to go to rehris/small shops/work places as they substitute their parents on work.But in the last several years I have observed the levels of girls leaving schools from 7th/8th to at least 10th/12th (except that many girl children leave school getting failure in 10th class).The marriage age is also going up in the process.
The benefits have been substantial barring those for conservative families from all religions,( more from muslim families,as the no seem to more on conservative side).But still the effort is worth it and is yielding results.
E) In spite of women earning on their own there would be very less no of families where in spite of their earnings the women can spend more than small amounts on their own even if the money belongs to them because of the social structure of families in India.Disparities have remained and will continue to remain to some extent whether it is gender, caste or creed but our effort should be to reduce the disparities with ultimate aim of eliminating the disparities.Change is coming and will continue which is welcome but it is slow.
Regards,
(A.K.MALIK)
--- On Sat, 5/23/09, subhrodip sengupta <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> From: subhrodip sengupta <sub_sengupta at yahoo.co.in>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] plight of the muslim women and appeasement
> To: "Readers list Yousuf Sarai." <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Saturday, May 23, 2009, 7:38 PM
> Dear all,
> Do you believe in the effectiveness of
> such policies? A more fundamental question to ask would be
> the effects of such a policy.
> A> Does a boy usually marry a girl more educated than
> him?
> b> What is the average marriage age of Girls, ok Muslim
> Girls in our country. Even in towns, cities etc., my
> experience is that after Class 12. What does education mean
> after that, if one has a kid( no accounts of heroism
> please!)?
> c> After free education what does a transfer signify? IS
> it just to increase demand for government education sans
> adding value?
> d> Depends on the answer to b> If education does not
> create gender equality, is it being used to create varied
> disparity. The Value mothers add to home as housewifes is
> being dimminished. So education is now required to even run
> a dhaba, for tourism or what? UNproductive Education!
>
> Thus I conclude that this process will evebtually
> substitute & justify various forms of disparities, and
> except a transfer of Income, in effect is half-hearted. I
> have seen school going children working to substitute
> Income. Will transfers stop it? NO. Then what are the
> Desired effects? Sad that some people do not see why the
> Swan presents food to the jackal in a certain way!
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> To: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Cc: Sarai List <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Sent: Friday, 22 May, 2009 11:13:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] plight of the muslim women and
> appeasement
>
>
> Dear Mr Chakravartty,
> Since the info has been more
> or less a first hand from the Schools,my only objection had
> been the effect of such moves on the tender minds of kid
> girls.You can't make a girl of 10-12 years understand why a
> muslim girl whose parents are well-off gets Rs 300 and she
> whose parents hardly able to get even full food for the day
> doesn't get it.If the money is to be paid, let it be paid to
> all girl students irrespective of caste creed and religion
> or it must be based on economic criterion again irrespective
> of caste and creed as also of religion.
> I have even a problem with the Scheme to be named with a
> MUslim name as also I oftenly find problem with all SC/STs
> places being named Gandhi/Ambedkar Sadans etc and never by
> Jawahar/Patel or similar ones.
>
> (A.K.MALIK)
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/20/09, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] plight of the muslim women
> and appeasement
> > To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 4:13 PM
> > Dear Mr Malik,
> >
> >
> >
> > Clarifications first:
> >
> >
> >
> > The funds for the education and employment for the
> backward
> > minorities would
> > be made available through GOI. Maulana Azad Trust’s
> > corpus has been
> > increased to Rs 500 crores. (
> > http://www.indianexpress.com/news/education-jobs-plan-panel-focus-for-muslim-uplift/19044/0
> > )
> >
> >
> >
> > To reason for reservation in any form, I would say
> that it
> > is a policy of
> > involving more and more people in decision-making
> process
> > so that a
> > composite form of governance can be created. If
> > reservations mean benefits
> > it also means additional responsibility. Prosperity,
> which
> > in this case, is
> > a derivative of the function of reservation, actually
> has
> > an added baggage
> > of roles, especially in India. These roles are to be
> > fulfilled by those who
> > avail what we call reservation as these roles
> traditionally
> > were performed
> > by just one set of people who are endowed with
> economic
> > power with and
> > therefore they were also expected to have a say in
> the
> > functioning of the
> > government and taking large scale policy decision.
> >
> >
> >
> > I might be contradicting myself, but the reservations
> are
> > not just about
> > economic prosperity. It is a means of social
> empowerment
> > too. Infact social
> > empowerment is the basis for the reservations in
> India.
> > While economic
> > prosperity is a result of individual strengths,
> social
> > prosperity and
> > recognition is a form of collective strength. It is
> not the
> > case that social
> > prosperity could be gained only through economic
> gains, but
> > vice versa – as
> > in you need an atmosphere without any discrimination
> than
> > only you can work
> > better.
> >
> >
> >
> > In case of Muslims, more than the economic disparity
> > between the rich and
> > the poor, it is social relevance of the community
> that
> > needs to be addressed
> > from within the community. Although reforms in Muslims
> have
> > to intrinsic and
> > inclusive, it cannot be seen in the light of the
> reform
> > movements in other
> > religions. Therefore, there is such an impetus on
> resolving
> > the issues of
> > education and employment especially in case of the
> Muslim
> > girls.
> >
> >
> >
> > Like you have pointed out that extra Rs 300 given to
> the
> > Muslim girls, I
> > take this opportunity to point towards 14 per cent
> > reservation for Brahmins
> > and other upper castes (
> > http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2514/stories/20080718251403300.htm)
> > that
> > have been clearly called economically backward upper
> > castes, even though the
> > most backward people would be tribals in Banswada
> > district.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks anupam
> >
> >
> > On 5/20/09, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Malik jee
> > >
> > > If you wish to say that benefits like reservation
> must
> > be based on economic
> > > criteria, to quite a substantial extent (leaving
> aside
> > SC and ST), I would
> > > agree, as it is not going to help if only the
> affluent
> > among the upper
> > > castes, the backward castes or the Muslims or
> other
> > minorities are getting
> > > admissions and posts based on reservations. It's
> the
> > poor and the
> > > downtrodden among these communities which
> require
> > reservation.
> > >
> > > However, when we do provide such reservation,
> then we
> > have to ensure that
> > > these people have the capacity to get absorbed
> through
> > such reservations,
> > > otherwise it's going to be of no use. For
> example, if
> > the poor can't avail
> > > of education even upto 10th std, then what is the
> use
> > of providing them
> > > reservation in IIT's and IIM's ? Therefore, it's
> time
> > we debate upon the
> > > idea of reservation to bring about benefits to
> > different communities. The
> > > same argument also extends for SC's and ST's.
> > >
> > > At the same time, one must not forget that one of
> the
> > benefits of
> > > introducing reservation was to increase national
> > unity, and whether one
> > > likes it or not, this is something which can't
> be
> > debated. If there would
> > > have been no reservation for SC's and ST's too,
> these
> > would also have felt
> > > useless and would have joined themselves to
> causes
> > which indulge in violence
> > > (at least a part have done so through Naxalism),
> and I
> > feel the Naxalite
> > > problem may have been greater, along with
> violence due
> > to caste
> > > discrimination and casteism.
> > >
> > > I have no problems with reservation as a move,
> it's
> > just that I accept your
> > > point that reservation for any caste or religion
> or
> > community must be
> > > debated, and the previous effects of reservation
> must
> > be studied while
> > > undertaking any new reservations to ensure that
> these
> > actually turn
> > > effective. And if that means reservation for
> poor
> > across all castes and
> > > communities has to be provided, so be it.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Rakesh
> > >
> > _________________________________________
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>
>
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