[Reader-list] 'Going Muslim' - America after Fort Hood.

yasir ~يا سر yasir.media at gmail.com
Tue Nov 17 14:42:12 IST 2009 

Dear Kshmendra,

If someone kills and is a muslim, why call him a muslim. call him a killer !

I am dealing with the pakistani government and the islamists, and the
militants on my own terms, as are most pakistani citizens. We really do not
want hateful narratives like vadarajan's.

USA is a country whose ideals are to exploit others for blood while
promoting american democracy, however harmonious that sounds.  Islamic
ideals (if there is any such a compact thing) are something else, but
certainly not something remotely close to the militants, or oddball
behaviour of military psychologists. There are huge differences between the
three. You are mixing the last 2. I wouldn't.

best



On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>wrote:

>  Dear Yasir
>
> You do not kill people alongside your saying "Allahu Akbar". Do you?
>
> "What is the US doing in Afghanistan and Iraq" is certainly a discussion
> but not the only discussion.
>
> For me the discussion is also the havoc wrecked in the name of Islam in
> India and in Kashmir in particular. That takes primacy for me.
>
> I would suggest that your discussion too should be on, "the havoc wrecked
> in the name of Islam in Pakistan" and also "the havoc wrecked by Pakistanis
> in the name of Islam in India and elsewhere' and the support extended for
> such activities by the 'Pakistani Establishment'.
>
> There is not much difference is there between USA interfering in other
> countries in the name of "USA's Ideal" and Muslims interfering in any
> country they choose to in the name of an "Islamic Ideal"?
>
> Kshmendra
>
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 11/15/09, yasir ~يا سر <yasir.media at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: yasir ~يا سر <yasir.media at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 'Going Muslim' - America after Fort Hood.
> To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 4:36 PM
>
>
> Dear KK,
>
> Following your logic, I have al-qaeda connections, which i have. nice fit.
> needless to say, I say allah ho akbar quite often.
>
> secondly it wasn't important what Mc Veigh was saying. It was announced on
> the media channels that middle eastern folk had brought down the  FBI
> building. whether McVeigh liked shish kabob or got trained by christian
> militias in lebanon, i dont know. but certainly he was against the US
> government, like the other christian militias in the US at the time, and FBI
> and its operations against religious groups in particular, among which the
> Waco, Texas massacre stood out.
>
> so certainly by pointing out that he was agnostic, one can overlook at why
> the FBI got bombed in the first place. so US actions in Iraq should justify
> al-qaeda and this killing spree in Fort Hodd, but no.
>
> there's also this very american rant:
> http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/american_muslims_to_fort
>
> this is the wrong discussion to have. What is the US doing in Afghanistan
> and Iraq is the right discussion.
>
> best
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kshmendra2005@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>>   Dear Yasir
>>
>> The best (or worst) thing about stereotypes (and cliches) is that they fit
>> so often.
>>
>> It is easy to dismiss with a "bs" (presumably Bullshit) without pondering
>> over possibilities. It shows being in a state of denial and not a plausible
>> one at that.
>>
>> It is early days and we now have reports of Hasan having been in touch
>> with Radical Islamists; of Hasan having financial transactions with
>> Pakistan; of Hasan  in his business card calling himself "SoA" (Soldier of
>> Allah). Media concoctions? Dont know. But certainly are bits and pieces that
>> might just be innocent coincidences but makes you wonder.
>>
>> Then of course, all this might be an American-Israeli-Indian conspiracy.
>>
>> It is interesting that you should mention Tim McVeigh and the Oklahoma
>> Bombing. As far as I know, McVeigh did not claim it as a strike by a
>> Christian (if McVeigh was one) against Non-Christians.
>>
>> As per one report McVeigh proclaimed himself an agnostic. See:
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/jun/11/mcveigh.usa4
>>
>>
>> Kshmendra
>>
>>
>> --- On *Fri, 11/13/09, yasir ~يا سر <yasir.media at gmail.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yasir.media@gmail.com>
>> >* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: yasir ~يا سر <yasir.media at gmail.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yasir.media@gmail.com>>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] 'Going Muslim' - America after Fort Hood.
>> To: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=reader-list@sarai.net>
>> >
>> Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 12:46 PM
>>
>>   what a stinking piece of hate this article is.
>> an exercise in how to make full use of the worst stereotypes.
>>
>> this is just postal. rest is bs. pc or no pc.
>>
>> the FBI building in Oklahoma wasnt bombed by postal workers
>> I'll take it as a sorting mistake.
>>
>> best
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <
>> kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc572.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kshmendra2005@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> > > 'Going Muslim'
>> > >
>> > > Tunku Varadarajan, 11.09.09
>> > >
>> > > America after Fort Hood.
>> > >
>> > > "Going postal" is a piquant American phrase that describes the
>> phenomenon
>> > of violent rage in which a worker--archetypically a postal
>> worker--"snaps"
>> > and guns down his colleagues.
>> > >
>> > > As the enormity of the actions of Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan sinks in, we
>> > must ask whether we are confronting a new phenomenon of violent rage,
>> one we
>> > might dub--disconcertingly--"Going Muslim." This phrase would describe
>> the
>> > turn of events where a seemingly integrated Muslim-American--a friendly
>> > donut vendor in New York, say, or an officer in the U.S. Army at Fort
>> > Hood--discards his apparent integration into American society and elects
>> to
>> > vindicate his religion in an act of messianic violence against his
>> fellow
>> > Americans. This would appear to be what happened in the case of Maj.
>> Hasan.
>> > >
>> > > The difference between "going postal," in the conventional sense, and
>> > "going Muslim," in the sense that I suggest, is that there would not
>> > necessarily be a psychological "snapping" point in the case of the
>> > imminently violent Muslim; instead, there could be a calculated
>> discarding
>> > of camouflage--the camouflage of integration--in an act of revelatory
>> > catharsis. In spite of suggestions by some who know him that he had a
>> > history of "harassment" as a Muslim in the army, Maj. Hasan did not
>> "snap"
>> > in the "postal" manner. He gave away his possessions on the morning of
>> his
>> > day of murder. He even gave away--to a neighbor--a packet of frozen
>> broccoli
>> > that he did not wish to see go to waste, even as he mapped in his mind
>> the
>> > laying waste of lives at Fort Hood. His was a meticulous, even
>> punctilious
>> > "departure."
>> > >
>> > > We are a civilized society. One of our cardinal rules of coexistence
>> is
>> > that we (try always to) judge people only by their actions and not by
>> their
>> > identity, whether racial, religious or sexual. This is our great
>> strength as
>> > a society, and also, in the present circumstances, our great weakness:
>> How
>> > to address the threat posed by the fact that, of the hundreds of
>> thousands
>> > of Muslims in our midst, there are a few (perhaps many more than a few)
>> who
>> > are so radicalized that they would kill their fellow Americans? Must we
>> > continue to be neutral in handling all people from different groups even
>> > though we know that there are differential risks posed by people of one
>> > group? The problem here is a heightened version of the airport security
>> > problem, where we check all people--including Chinese
>> > grandmothers--regardless of risk profiles. But can we afford that on a
>> > grand, national scale? (And I mean that question not merely in a
>> financial
>> > sense, but also in terms
>> >  of
>> > >  the price we'd pay in failing to detect a threat in time.)
>> > >
>> > > This being America, we will insist on going a long way to preserve the
>> > appearance of equality, and that is no bad thing in terms of moral
>> > principle. But like all values, the appearance of equality is not
>> infinite
>> > in its appeal--especially if it flies in the face of common sense and
>> > self-preservation. A short time after the shootings at Fort Hood,
>> President
>> > Obama asked us not to jump to conclusions. To many Americans, this was a
>> > grating request, of a piece with the political correctness that was
>> > responsible--it has emerged--for the hands-off treatment by the Army of
>> Maj.
>> > Hasan. How else could he have been left in the position of treating U.S.
>> > troops, given the stories we've now heard about his incendiary
>> statements
>> > and apparent incompetence?
>> > >
>> > > This is the same mindset that led the FBI to deny the possibility that
>> > the Fort Hood massacre was linked to terrorism even before they could
>> have
>> > had any idea that was the case. We don't have to be paranoid about Arab
>> > males; we just have to avoid the opposite: Being fearful of coming
>> across as
>> > Islamophobic, and thereby failing to look straight at a situation.
>> > >
>> > > This is part of a larger--and too-hot-to-touch--American problem,
>> which
>> > is the privileging of religion, and its frequent exemption from rules of
>> > normal discourse. Muslims may be more extreme because their religion is
>> > founded on bellicose conquest, a contempt for infidels and an obligation
>> for
>> > piety that is more extensive than in other schemes. President Obama was
>> as
>> > craven as a community college diversity vice-president when he said that
>> no
>> > one should jump to conclusions. Everyone did, and he lost credibility
>> with
>> > people who cannot stand civic piety in the face of the murderous kind.
>> > >
>> > > Muslims are the most difficult "incomers" in the ongoing integration
>> > challenge, which America has always handled with pride--and a kind of
>> > swagger. We're the salad bowl/melting pot. Drive through Queens to see
>> how
>> > we do this.
>> > >
>> > > America differentiates itself on integration from Western European
>> > countries, which are far more cringing and guilt-driven in their
>> approach.
>> > But can the American swagger persist if many Americans come genuinely to
>> > view Muslims as Fifth Columnists? The integration compact depends on a
>> broad
>> > trust that the immigrant's desire to be American can happily co-exist
>> with
>> > his other forms of racial/cultural/religious identity. Once that trust
>> > doesn't exist, America faces a problem in need of urgent resolution.
>> > >
>> > > Have we reached that point of breakdown in trust? Not yet, I think,
>> and
>> > not by some distance; but a few more murderous incidents of the Maj.
>> Hasan
>> > variety--a few more shouts of "Allahu Akbar" as Americans are shot
>> > dead--will push many Americans on to a dangerous cusp.
>> > >
>> > > I will end on a practical note. The PC--political correctness--problem
>> is
>> > an obvious and thorny issue that the U.S. Army, at least, has to tackle.
>> The
>> > Army had a self-identified Islamic fundamentalist in its midst, blogging
>> > about suicide bombings and telling everyone he hated the Army's mission;
>> and
>> > yet, they did, or could do, nothing about it. In effect, the
>> > "don't-jump-to-conclusions" mentality was underway long before this man
>> > killed his colleagues.
>> > >
>> > > So, first, it should be part of the mandatory duty of every member of
>> the
>> > armed forces to report any remarks or behavior of fellow service members
>> > that could be construed as indicating unfitness for duty for any reason.
>> > >
>> > > Second, there should be a duty to report such data up the chain of
>> > command, regardless of the assessment of the local commander.
>> > >
>> > > Third, there should be a single high-level Pentagon or army department
>> > that follows all such cases in real time, whether the potential ground
>> for
>> > alarm is sympathy with white supremacism, radical Islamism, endorsement
>> of
>> > suicide bombing or simple mental unfitness.
>> > >
>> > > Let the first lesson of the Hasan atrocity be this: The U.S. Army has
>> to
>> > be a PC-free zone. Our democracy and our way of life depend on it.
>> > >
>> > > (Tunku Varadarajan, a professor at NYU's Stern Business School and a
>> > fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution, is executive editor for
>> opinions at
>> > Forbes. He writes a weekly column for Forbes. (Follow him on Twitter,
>> here.)
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/08/fort-hood-nidal-malik-hasan-muslims-opinions-columnists-tunku-varadarajan.html
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
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