[Reader-list] kashmir story, but true

Thu Oct 15 20:52:09 IST 2009

well, when the initial shock and revulsion at this extordinary account
receded somewhat, I tried to make sense of the incident. Some of the
responses and Inder Salim's reactions to the responses did help, especially
Nandini Sen's comment on the commodification of women, though I couldn't
figure out whether the woman had any agency at all. Quite obviously, she
didn't.

I am puzzled as to whether an incident like this can be re-framed in the
context of the Hindu-Muslim relationship in Kashmir - the lost, sometimes
momentarily regained, elusive frendship that Inder Salim is so desperately
searching for. Also, a thought just occured to me - where are the stories of
women seeking such friendships across the communities? What was the
relationship of Hindu and Muslim women in Kashmir - did they share any space
at all - childhood friendships, shareed memories of studenthood, or of
community living... Perhaps then we can make some sense of this bizzare
notion of male bonding and how false it is, at the cost of the women of
Kashmir.

Apart from the issues of friendship and patriarchy Inder Salim's reading of
this account throws up, I am left with an overwhelming feeling of sadness at
the aberrations such prolonged conflicts ave on human relationships. In my
initial shock, I also wondered at the veracity of the story. But if we look
around us - even in the lap of consumerism and alienation that we are
confronted with in a city like Mumbai - where I am located - how many such
aberrations will come up, violent, unjust and shorn of all love and dignity.
Slowly, these aberrations become the norm....

Geeta

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks dear Gowhar
> cant see myself 'provocative', since  'the summit' is too far, and
> even at the summit moralities spin unpridictably, so no claims
> whatsoever, i think of Ghalib, Kab voh sunta hai khani meri, aur phir
> voh be zubani meri, ( please give a good rendering  to this geat
> couplet in english, i hesitate )
>
>  i wish we could speak in Kashmiri, about this and even about the
> present ' provocative'  post ) and i guess, it would be  markedly
> different, for example, if Salman Rushdie had written Satanic Verses
> in Arabic, it might not have created any controversy, but in English
> ... Similarly, the post which looked too provocative might have
> created some different feel , if i had narrated to you and others in
> kashmiri, since the narrater told me the sotry in that language.
> Although i am not too serious about what i call ' intentions, but
> still, i feel
>
> Again, about the priority, of what looks too shocking to us, is also
> distored, because some issues are, life saving, or commodifed and
> others are banal,or crazy at the most, even if vital to the
> 'distribution of sensiblites', horizontally. We perhaps, dont know,
> how to raise the issue, and so violence.  The violence, the most
> universal element in the world, more than the air which we inhale.
>
>  So, again, the cost of writing in other language becomes a risky
> affair. and i often take the risk, for reasons known to me and
> sometimes not even known to me, which is similar to the conditioning
> of all of us, i guess.
>
>   But, even with mother tongue, as a natural tool to communicate, we
> still are guaranteeless on the path to the summit, although It would
> be different, but...
>
> at the end of day we are too alone, not alone physically, but in
> larger sense, and i think of Momin, Tum Meray Kisi Tarah na huya,
> varna dunya meain kaya nahi hota. ( the line is adapted beautifully by
> Aga Shahid Ali  in his poem,) . Ah, we could have sang a duet, if it
> was not guns in our hands.
>
> Yes, the idea of bringing the other into my ' idea of essences' is
> because , perhaps, often this lack makes me restless, and boring at
> times, since we have surplus of time and energy, and dont know how to
> consume the flame.  Again, the word 'lack', looks Lacanian, but i see
> it, as 'we' who are too imperfect to do things properly, and are
> chaotic therefore, but, since we inherit craft, our past lazily , and
> so we feel delighted on doing this or that in our niches, but the fact
> remains, we can unable, to say a thing which aims to cover the whole.
> The poet is trying, but realizes he is actually a  ' Badakhwar' and
> not truly a ' wali'
>
>  That is the lack and that perhaps, made people like Jean Genet
> support Palestanian momvement, but who  said at the same time , that
> if they are looking for another state, and another beauracracy,
> another police and army,  then i am not too interested in the project.
> The same goes with me. I am hardly interested to live in a free
> kashmir if it makes no difference between the existing States, say
> India, say Pakistan. etc.
>  Well, that does not mean that poeple should not a spontaneous
> reaction to what is happeing and what it means to reclaim the lost
> territory, which in kashmiri translates back to , ( please donate some
> good expression in Kashmiri, and then back to Englih )
>
> I know one artist Oreet, who is an Isreali, a non-muslim perhaps, but
> has done work on the recent wall in Gaza stip. She looks performing
> in front of Jewish Wailing Wall but far removed from the traditon of
> mere Belief.
>
> It is here, i feel free to write anything that comes to me,  i distort
> , i twist, i paint that, mix words and spice, some leaves of tea in,
> and morning breeze, and so casually, or  careless ot realize if that
> becomes tasteless, or ambigous.
>
> But i need to be, and so words, images, actions, come to me, since i
> eat food, drink tea and talk to people, to be, and to be makes me feel
> low at times, and high even, dull and sharp even. But we remain
> elusive to each other, we shake hands and with someone we happnen make
> love even, but as we know, it hardly translate in the knowledge of the
> other,
>
>  Few years back,I just happened to have dinner at a freinds place in
> Srinagar in the company of Arundhati Roy and suddenly i declared that
> i am not a beleiver, which again shocked some, who even subtly
> reflected to that, perhaps, i was a guest, but i could see such a
> statement is not welcome in Kashmir. Because, a non-beleiver in our
> political terminology is a ' communist' which i was never perhaps,
> although i was part of the progressive Artists group in Kashmir. that
> is 1986. But , still after many years, and i guess after many more
> decades more, a non-beleiver would be seen as a communist only, and
> not seen some who admires Mansoor Halaj kind of vision.
>
> with love and regards
> inder salim
>
> But, now, when we have
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 9:14 AM, gowhar fazli <gowharfazili at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > visited my yahoo account after a long time...  and looked for your
> posts... found couple of them very very interesting.  I wish I had your
> persistence and depth!!
> >
> > I don't know if i have told you that i admire you for striking your own
> path and cutting through shaff and going to essences... though i do at times
> find you too provocative due to my prudish and conventional upbringing!!
> >
> > Why are you not on facebook.  It is an interesting and wider forum and
> lots of Kashmiris of all shades around too to pick there brains!
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] kashmir story, but true
> >> To: "reader-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> >> Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 9:46 PM
> >> Dear Shbar
> >> thanks for response,
> >>
> >> i will come again on this entire thing again, but
> >> deconstructing a lot,
> >>
> >> i met this man Anil , a kashmiri but a stranger, in a
> >> train, who told
> >> me this about his school time friend
> >> Nazir.   so may be he narrrated
> >> me something which has not actually happned, but i trusted
> >> him and
> >> posted the story as it is, so nothing to dig deeper in
> >> but, even if i knew him, wont it be unethical to expose
> >> him, and his
> >> freind Nazir back in kashmir. and who will take the
> >> responibltiy
> >> of the victim , his wife? what if she is attacked by the
> >> those who
> >> consider her sinful after knowing the story,
> >>
> >> That is why, i raised the issue, of the voiceless, which
> >> does not mean
> >> that we can make the vulneralble more vulnerable
> >>
> >> with love and regards
> >> inder salim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 11:28 AM, SHABIR DAR <shabirdar99 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > it is obviously very shocking to read ur piece. Has it
> >> really happened that
> >> > a man out of his personal compulsons or whatever,
> >> gifts his wife's modesty
> >> > to his friend. i can not deny i might not have
> >> happened. Bt i m nt convinced
> >> > with ur stry. if u could have interviewed both
> >> friends, and the woman and
> >> > put their excerpts, ur stry cud have been mre
> >> credible. Inderji i m a
> >> > journalist, so i wanna to know more abt it. If u can
> >> plz let me know more
> >> > abt this stry, i wl b obliged.
> >> > Regards
> >> > Shabir Dar
> >> > Journalist
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 10/10/09, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Even if I was a writer, I will find it difficult
> >> to write.  But here
> >> >> it is, in simple words, with very little of what
> >> might have actually
> >> >> happened that night. This is just one case, so
> >> nothing to generalize,
> >> >> and there is a lot to imagine:
> >> >>
> >> >> To begin with, Kashmir has two distinct
> >> identities, One Muslim and
> >> >> other Hindu identity. Proportion wise there is no
> >> contrast, but if we
> >> >> see it in historical  perspective, then  the
> >> hindu identity looks as
> >> >> much visible as Muslim .
> >> >>
> >> >> It is here that both the communities have a bond,
> >> a strange one that
> >> >> the cruel times of 1990 could not erase
> >> from  their collective memory.
> >> >>
> >> >> We all know Kashmiri Pandits migrated from the
> >> valley to Jammu and
> >> >> other parts of India when Kashmiri uprising
> >> actually thought of
> >> >> erasing all those traces in Kashmir which are
> >> associated with India.
> >> >> Kashmiri Pandit was one such visible face of that
> >> long list of Indian
> >> >> articles. So, KP’s had to move out
> >> leaving  behind home and hearth,
> >> >> friends and fields, and I largely blame Indian
> >> Kashmir policy for
> >> >> that.  Hate between these two communities hit
> >> the lowest during that
> >> >> time, but times, as we know have different things
> >> in store, and we see
> >> >> lot of hugs and warm exchanges between the two
> >> communities.  Muslims
> >> >> help KPs as and when they visit valley, and Hindus
> >> too support their
> >> >> children outside Kashmir. The bond is really
> >> deeper than what
> >> >> politically remains elusive.
> >> >>
> >> >> But, when Mr. Anil ( named changed ) a KP visited
> >> his village he was
> >> >> surprised by  something more than  a warm hug.
> >> Mr. Anil is a 1990
> >> >> graduate but could not find a job in Jammu and is
> >> still unemployed and
> >> >> a bachelor. His family’s ancestral land is quite
> >> in shambles, and he
> >> >> is thinking to dispose that property to live
> >> decently in Jammu. That
> >> >> is that.
> >> >>
> >> >> On entering his village he met his class mates and
> >> other friends who
> >> >> are now married and living independently. During
> >> his month long stay
> >> >> in his village he spent nights at homes
> >> of  different friends.
> >> >>
> >> >> It happened one night, during his stay when he was
> >> surprised by a mid
> >> >> night whisper. It was his friend, Nazir ( name
> >> changed), who  was
> >> >> offering him to have sex with his wife.  Mr.
> >> Anil, said no, no, but
> >> >> Nazir insisted and wanted sincerely to gift
> >> something meaningful to
> >> >> his friend, something different, so the idea of
> >> offering him his wife
> >> >> was born.  Anil accepted the offer after he
> >> initially hesitated, which
> >> >> followed by a repeat next day even.  One woman
> >> between two friends:
> >> >> one hindu and other muslim. In simple words it was
> >> a group sex, but
> >> >> Anil is now guilty and feels that it was too
> >> animal like, as Nazir’s
> >> >> wife was not a willing partner in all of that.
> >> >>
> >> >> Nazir is an ex-militant, which Anil knew  since
> >> 1990. Anil and Nazir
> >> >> have an inbuilt trust between them and that easily
> >> translated into
> >> >> Anil’s willingness to stay at his home for
> >> couple of nights, and even
> >> >> accept the most dangerous
> >> offer.  This  Kashmiri woman’s  role easily
> >> >> falls into the popular feminist discourse, and
> >> questions the very
> >> >> nature of male oriented agendas around our
> >> political spectrum.
> >> >>
> >> >> Nazir’s offer to Anil comes  because of two
> >> reasons. One, that Nazir
> >> >> had actually experienced group sex during his
> >> activist days, and does
> >> >> not see it as sin, and secondly he saw a meaning
> >> in the Anil’s
> >> >> presence in his home, which he knew not how to
> >> express, because he is
> >> >> poor and can not offer him a gift.  Is KP still
> >> a purer breed in
> >> >> Kashmir,  I am wondering?
> >> >>
> >> >> And, as we know, woman  suffered terribly in
> >> Kashmir. First it was
> >> >> Nazir and his friends who were given hero’s
> >> welcome wherever they went
> >> >> with arms, and were obviously not stopped for
> >> their sexual excitement
> >> >> during nights at different hide outs in different
> >> homes. And the
> >> >> victim: as usual a woman.
> >> >>
> >> >> But what happened at Nazir’s home has different
> >> layering besides what
> >> >> happens during group sex etc. Anil and Nazir are
> >> perhaps restoring
> >> >> this bond at the cost of a dignity of a woman,
> >> which Nazir could not
> >> >> see that evening, and Anil is seeing it now. I am
> >> sure, Nazir too must
> >> >> be feeling  guilty somewhere in his heart, Anil
> >> told me.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now the question is do we suggest Nazir to meet a
> >> psychoanalyst? Is he
> >> >> sick, or is he too a victim of circumstances. Or
> >> he is simply a male,
> >> >> who does not know how to measure the dignity of a
> >> woman.  Or is Anil
> >> >> to blame for what he agreed to do with a helpless
> >> woman in the
> >> >> presence of her husband.
> >> >>
> >> >> Comments please
> >> >>
> >> >> With love and regards
> >> >> Inder salim
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >>
> >> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> >> >> _________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Shabir Dar
> >> > Rising Kashmir, Srinagar
> >> >
> >> > Cell: 9469243828
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> >> _________________________________________
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