[Reader-list] Selective condemnation of rape and murder has become bane of J&K politic

[S. Jabbar]

Dear Junaid,
I will respond point by point, and Sanju sorry, as I have ended up doing
what I said I wouldn't in my email to you, but Junaid has made my task
easier with specific charges/accusations/assertions.  For the rest of the
people on this list, my apologies, as much of this will seem confusing
without the longer narrative of the case, which I simply do not have the
time to put down.

> Shopian case has, from the day it became clear that the two women
> hadn't simply drowned, been a game where it seems those responsible
> are hell bent on proving that the women were neither sexually
> assaulted nor murdered.
This is simply not true.  Everyone was on the back foot when protests
erupted following Omar Abdullah's statement that the women had drowned.
After that the entire state machinery was employed to prove that they were
raped and murdered.  This included the police investigation team led by IGP
Kashmir, and the state govt. paying their lawyers Rs.13 Lakhs to stop the 4
policemen (who were booked for dereliction of duty) from getting bail in the
supreme court.  
> 
Jan pointed out that Asiya's death was caused by a gash on
> her forehead. 

Jan based his observations on the post-mortem report, which was fabricated.
The doctors had not even x-rayed Asiya's skull let alone open it up to
ascertain whether the wound had led to a brain hemorrhage. The first lot of
doctors measured the wound to be 2-3 cm, the 2nd, 2-3 inches.  Wow!
Fantastic.  If a tailor had this kind of margin of error he would've been
without any customers and the Jan Commission doesn't even comment on this!

CBI said it was not the reason, but since sand and
> phytoplankton from Rambiara were found inside the lungs CBI declared
> it a case of drowning. Well clearly since Asiya's and Neelofar's body
> were taken out of shallow water the possibility that the water could
> have entered her lungs after her death was not even seen as a real
> possibility. 
Dr. Bilal had claimed he had done a flotation test on the lungs, but when
the bodies were exhumed and autopsy conducted in front of Majlis Mashawarat
the lungs were found intact.  Turns out the tissue used was a slice of the
heart! The AIIMS team did a flotation test on the lungs that failed.  This
is recorded on camera and was done in front of members of the Majlis
Mashawarat.

>Intact hymen in one body doesn't rule out rape, right?
Wrong.  If you can't figure out why I really don't want to go into this
list. What else is there to prove rape?  The vaginal samples with multiple
spermatozoa that were displayed as proof of a brutal 'gang rape' turned out
to be the sick fabrication of Dr. Chiloo and Dr. Gh.Qadir who manufactured
the samples by taking scrapings of gloves from the Pulwama district
hospital.  A second slide was also prepared, bizarrely, from Dr.Chiloo's own
vaginal swab. Ugh.

 Praveen IB Swami rubished
> him by suggesting that the doctor had been caught plagiarising in 2004
> and was therefore not credible! If the doctor wasn't credible, why was
> he in the investigation team in the first place?
Pl attach Pravin Swmai's report. As far as I recall it was the Bar Assoc.
that spread the canard.  And which doctor are you referring to?   The team
of 9 doctors that was sent by AIIMS was led by the doctor who had done the
post mortem on Indira Gandhi in '84. There were 9 doctors from AIIMS and 9
scientists from the Central Forensic Laboratory.  From the autopsy to the
tests to the preservation of the tissue samples was done on camera.  Anyone
wishing to challenge this can file an RTI and examine the evidence.
> 
> I have seen Rambiara many times. Even where it joins Vaishav, which is
> at its end, it is not deep enough. And generally at the end of May
> water in Kashmiri streams is especially low, as some of it gets
> diverted to paddy fields. Government did its best to suggest that
> there was a sudden cloud burst and water overflowed in the brook. And
> IB Swami claimed there was flood that night. I was in a place close to
> Shopian around that time, and there had been no rain for days. Where
> did the great flood myth come from? Old Testament?

Let us not quibble but meet at the Rambiara on May 29th this year with a
whole bunch of witnesses.  I have no idea what the weather will be like but
really don't mind wagering you will not be able to cross.  Incidentally, the
claim that no one has ever drowned in the Rambiara is false.  Please check
J&K Police records from 1995-2009 and you will be surprised to learn that it
wasn't just Neloufer and Asiya who were found washed up.

> Anycase see photos of Rambi Ara here:
> http://www.kashmirprocess.org/reports/shopian/shopian_materials.html
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2525/3751167090_9fe348e660.jpg
> Would you have been able to cross it?
> 
> Now what you are saying is this:
> 
> "Early that morning, when the group saw some 'clothes' across the
> nullah, the brother in-law went back some 200 yards, crossed the
> bridge and then descended to the spot where they found Niloufer.  When
> he shouted across the nullah to the men on the other side, Niloufer's
> husband, wild with grief, wanted to leap into the nullah and go
> straight across.  He was restrained and finally the men went back 200
> yards, crossed the bridge and went down to the other side.  If the
> water was 'ankle-deep' as everyone claims, the men would have walked
> across without a fuss.  Why didn't they?"
> 
> Well, I ask you this question: Why didn't the two women use the bridge
> instead of doing a thing that even men (wild with grief) wouldn't do?
> If the river was really not crossable why did the women do it? And,
> more curiously, why both of them?
 Why did they cross?  Why did they not use the bridge?
My dear Junaid, I wish I could answer this. I haven't the slightest clue,
but even if one could answer this, how does it prove rape and murder?
> 
> That you have been to Kunan-Poshpora (and, no, I haven't been there)
> and that the victims are saying (and rightly so) that the politicians
> (?) didn't care about them, that they didn't see any money, or that
> they face enormous social hardships, does not prove that they were not
> raped. It is a great failure of the Kashmiri society not to have
> adequately shown solidarity with these women. But where are the
> culprits? It is not so difficult to find them, right?
> 
Have I said the culprits should not be punished, that rape should go
unpunished?  You seem to be driven by a sick determination to twist
everything I say. Kunan Poshpora, like many other crimes have gone
unpunished.  If and when there is peace in Kashmir there ought to be a truth
& reconciliation commission where these matters can be raised.  Not just
what happened to women of Kunan Poshpora, but also scores of others like
Sarla Butt (remember her?), Nigeena Awan, and Mariam Bi of Doda who had the
great distinction of being gang-raped by militants and then carved up by
knives.  

> In your earlier post you said this: "The reason I posted Fayyaz's
> article was because it underscored what many on
> this list are guilty of. Making a noise about things that further
> their world views or political interests and keeping quiet when it
> doesn't. I have no axe to grind." Whose worldviews and political
> interests "on this list" are you talking about? You seem to suggest
> that there are some hypocrites who make "noise about things". Well
> first of all, most of the time I see absolute garbage posted here on
> issues related to Kashmir. (Some posts count dead people in Kashmir in
> "Ks"... 16 K instead of 219). Second, I don't think Fayyaz's report is
> a sound way to underscore anything. In fact, his reports are doltish
> in the least and dark propaganda if you read it carefully enough.
> 
Garbage on this list, the doltishness of Fayyaz, the dark propaganda...this
is the world we live in.  People don't always have to agree with you.
Sometimes you have to engage with them, wrestle and debate with their ideas.
It's too easy to brush people aside as Indian agents/Pakistani agents/ CIA
agents. Sometimes annoying people and their irritating ideas can't just be
wished away, or for that matter, liquidated.

Sincerely,
Sonia Jabbar

> 
> Junaid
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:36 PM, S. Jabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Junaid,
>> 
>> Has Kashmir become a den of sleaze?  Have I suggested that this is so and
>> that 'Kashmiris are compulsive liars'? I don't think so.  And if I have, I
>> think you need to back your accusations with evidence from my posts.
>> 
>> The CMO Pulwama, Dr. Ghulam Qadir's actions can hardly be conflated with the
>> actions of all Kashmiris, so where is the question of Kashmir becoming a
>> 'den of sex, sleaze and hypocrisy'?  Having said that I still think it is
>> necessary to examine the actions of this particular gentleman as he was the
>> man ultimately responsible for collecting the vaginal samples and fudging
>> them.
>> 
>> I have in my earlier post to Sanjay-- which I am sure you have read--
>> condemned rapes and murders by men in khaki so I really don't understand
>> your outrageous attempt to paint me as someone who condones violations in
>> J&K or anywhere else.
>> 
>> You talk of Kunan Poshpora.  Have you been there?  I doubt it. But I have.
>> I spent time, I talked to the women in private, away from the gaze of the
>> men.  And guess what?  I believed them.  And guess what else?  They really
>> hate being talked about, written about, bandied about by politicians who
>> don't give a flying F about them and have used them to further their
>> political agenda.  Guess what else?  The money that was collected in their
>> name by the men who made the greatest noise about the rapes never got to
>> them.  And guess what else?  They are still known as 'the raped village' and
>> girls who were too little at the time of the ghastly incident are still
>> tormented whenever they leave their village to attend a HS school in a
>> nearby village-- not by men in khaki, but by their own brethren.
>> 
>> Turning to Shopian.  I have read every report on the case. Have you been to
>> the Rambiara?  Has anyone determined where exactly the women drowned?  All
>> that is known is where the bodies were found.  The bodies were found near
>> the bridge way downstream from the logical point of crossing from their
>> orchard to their home, both which were upstream.  All people who claimed
>> they could not have drowned in Rambiara where the bodies were found were
>> absolutely correct.  However, if you bother to read the testimonies of the
>> victims' relatives in the Jan Commission Report you will realize that even
>> that spot was difficult to cross.  Early that morning, when the group saw
>> some 'clothes' across the nullah, the brother in-law went back some 200
>> yards, crossed the bridge and then descended to the spot where they found
>> Niloufer.  When he shouted across the nullah to the men on the other side,
>> Niloufer's husband, wild with grief, wanted to leap into the nullah and go
>> straight across.  He was restrained and finally the men went back 200 yards,
>> crossed the bridge and went down to the other side.  If the water was
>> 'ankle-deep' as everyone claims, the men would have walked across without a
>> fuss.  Why didn't they?
>> 
>> To date no one who claims there was a rape and murder have been able to
>> scientifically establish cause of death.  And if you cannot establish cause
>> of death how can you say whether, it is  homicide, suicide, or death by
>> accident?  Soon after the incident the state government had announced a
>> reward of 25 lakh rupees to any information leading to the arrest of the
>> culprits.  Every man, woman and child was following this case in J&K.  And
>> yet to date not a single person has come up with any information leading to
>> the arrest of the culprits.  Every claim when investigated turned out to be
>> false.
>> 
>> As far as the claim of rape or gang rape: where is the evidence? Everything
>> that has come out points to the contrary.
>> 
>> As far as your last assertion, I only have one thing to say, and that is, I
>> don't need to prove 2 women were raped and murdered to underscore how bad it
>> is in Kashmir to be living under the shadow of so many guns.  I have always
>> said this and will say it again: India and Pakistan must resolve Kashmir.
>> The solution must be acceptable to all people and regions of J&K.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Junaid <justjunaid at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 16:56:02 -0400
>>> To: Sarai <reader-list at sarai.net>, Sanjay Kak <jashneazadifilm at gmail.com>,
>>> "S.
>>> Jabbar" <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Selective condemnation of rape and murder has
>>> become bane of J&K politic
>>> 
>>> Hi Sonia,
>>> 
>>> Thank you for sending across a slew of sordid reports suggesting how
>>> Kashmir has become a den of sex, sleaze, and hypocrisy. Your posts are
>>> complemented well by Kshmendra Kaul's post which asserts that
>>> Kashmiris are compulsive liars, and Pawan Durani's forwards that
>>> underscore how Kashmiris lie about human rights violations by the
>>> Indian troops. Between the three of you, you have finally nailed the
>>> true psyche of Kashmiris! But you know since sleaze is something that
>>> defines the present state of politics in and about Kashmir, the nature
>>> of what is written about it cannot entirely escape its shadow.
>>> 
>>> We have a history of making "noises" about rapes and molestations and
>>> almost invariably we have been told by the Indian agencies and the
>>> Indian media that we are wrong. The rape of dozens of women in
>>> Kunan-Poshpora in Kupwara by the Indian army has been declared a
>>> fabrication by the Indian govt and its intellegentsia. A number of
>>> books (authored by pro-establishment people like Manoj Joshi, Tavleen
>>> Singh etc) and tomes of news-stories have been manufactured to silence
>>> our "hypocritical" "noise". Press Council of India put a stamp of
>>> innocence on the Indian army units involved. (Only, we came to know
>>> later that BG Verghese hadn't even visited the village or talked to
>>> any victims). But that is too far in the past.
>>> 
>>> The reports of sexual abuse and exploitation of underage Kashmiri
>>> girls by the pro-India politicians, the bureaucrats, and the top
>>> officers of the paramilitary forces and the police, and the subsequent
>>> investigations have led to nowhere. CBI didn't particularly prove
>>> itself to be objective or free from political influence in that case.
>>> See:
>>> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/highcourtnamesstringofvvipsinsexualabuseca
>>> se
>>> /226255/
>>> 
>>> It is quite understandable that, after all this, the Kashmiri people
>>> (and the sane people in India who see what CBI did to the Bofors case
>>> and the Hawala scandal) don't trust its "reports". See:
>>> http://kashmirprocess.com/news/20100104_GK_Wani.pdf
>>> 
>>> So, when you say "Based on the evidence that we have at the (moment) I
>>> do not believe it was either rape or murder", I would like to know
>>> what "evidence" are you talking about. What evidence do you have to
>>> suggest that the two women found dead in knee-deep water were not
>>> raped and murdered? If you have "evidence" it means you are suggesting
>>> that the evidence points to an alternative scenario. What is that
>>> scenario? Unless you are suggesting that both the women happened to
>>> drown in the rivulet, in which even fish didn't have water enough to
>>> swim! (Well, that scenario would not need evidence but a miracle... or
>>> a dopey imagination!)
>>> 
>>> I am asking this because it seems you have an opinion on what actually
>>> happened to the two women. After all, you call it a "tragic death": "I
>>> feel wretched that 2 women died a tragic death and then they were
>>> subjected to the worst kind of public scrutiny for months, their
>>> sexual lives speculated upon, their characters ground down to the
>>> dust.." You are right about the second part, of course. But the
>>> question is who speculated on the character of the two women, or cast
>>> aspersions about the role of Neelofar's husband? Who was most
>>> interested in showing the women as bad-charactered?
>>> 
>>> Have you read these two reports:
>>> http://www.kashmirprocess.org/reports/shopian/ and
>>> http://www.kashmirtimes.com/shopian-report.pdf ? But these are
>>> independent reports. What happened to the findings of the Jan
>>> Commission? It was a govt report, right? It established rape and
>>> murder. See http://www.hindu.com/nic/shopian/index.htm
>>> 
>>> In reality, even if I accept your (self-appointed) three-member
>>> bench's unanimous conclusion about Kashmiris as liars, hypocrites, and
>>> manipulators, don't you think it still keeps pointing to the single
>>> most important thing about Kashmiri opinion about Indian rule over
>>> Kashmir: that they don't like it at all. That Indian rule over Kashmir
>>> has no democratic legitimacy?
>>> 
>>> Junaid
>> 
>> 
>>