[Reader-list] The Naxalites overreached

[Pawan Durani]

Be blessed

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6:22 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
> it is because of people like you most of the indigenous people forced
> to take up arms. your statements criminalise them not these arms or
> killings because by that time nothing is left in them to loose.
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Anupam Ji ,
>>
>> NamaskAr
>>
>> While as I do not disagree that these naxalites are our own people ,
>> we should also remember that majority of them have become criminals.
>>
>> There are other people too , who have been victim of state policies
>> etc etc ....but they haven't picked up the arms and go ahead beheading
>> people and killing our own policemen.
>>
>> It is sad that if a brute force would be used by the state , but i
>> guess they havent been left with much options.
>>
>> I hope and pray , that naxalites realize that they would carry much
>> more guilt , of many more deaths , orphans , widows and homeless
>> people.
>>
>> The naxalites have already made thousands of poor people homeless ,
>> especially in Orissa.
>>
>> They are nothing but cowards.
>>
>> Pawan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6:06 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Pawan,
>>>
>>> your attempts to invigorate the readers by saying "either you are with
>>> it or against it', you have with a possibility of a another vietnam to
>>> be waged in india on its very own people by the government. it is very
>>> comfortable for you to choose this stand because you with your pithy
>>> sayings know it very well that if anyone from this list comments on
>>> your post, it means people are reading about your ideas and you have
>>> successfully peddled them to a platform.
>>>
>>> let us see who you have excluded from this debate. you exclude the
>>> families by readily declaring them as "martyrs" (isnt it shameful that
>>> these men who could have worked to built these areas in the heart of
>>> india are brutally killed because another set of people do not want to
>>> come with guns? i know i shouldn't be asking these questions to you as
>>> it was an administrative decision to send such a large number of
>>> personnel into area which is already a stronghold) because they fought
>>> ' for/on your side'. it also excludes the staff of the hospital which
>>> worked for 48 hours on each and every corpse to send it to their
>>> homes, hoping that they never have to see a day like this again. you
>>> are excluding the independent opinion by always labelling it as maoist
>>> sympathisers, which could form as a bridge for negotiations at a later
>>> stage. for your information, it was stated by the senior police
>>> official working in that area, that the so-called liberated zone is
>>> largely uninhabited zone, so does it mean that security forces were
>>> planning to 'invade' the zone? at the cost of all these lives which
>>> have been lost despite the home minister making tall claims Dantewada
>>> and Gadhchiroli will be naxal free. so is this the approach? i think
>>> operation green hunt is a failure. the home ministry should admit that
>>> green hunt is a failure and use other approaches to negotiate peace.
>>>
>>> guess who you are including in this argument ...a band of young men
>>> and women who have probably exhausted all means of negotiating with
>>> all forms of governance and are now nothing but waiting to kill anyone
>>> that comes their way because it has been stated that Indian governance
>>> massively failed in its interventions. you are also including those
>>> mining companies who want to become mai-baap of indigenous
>>> communities. a few stakeholders who do not know whose line to toe, is
>>> it mao or marx or birsa munda or some politically correct arm chair
>>> intellectual...
>>>
>>> i am afraid but if this is how you perceive governance than a lot of
>>> people who are opposed to violence are in grave danger from people
>>> like you who just want to perpetuate conflicts.
>>>
>>> kindly think before you launch such statements sir. these so called
>>> maoists are people from own country who have lost faith. your faith in
>>> the system has absolutely no correlation with someone's else belief in
>>> the same system. so you cannot call for a iron hand treatment on
>>> anyone you feel like because the tv and the newspapers screamed
>>> headlines, rather give an alternative. the same mistakes that american
>>> government cannot be committed by india.
>>>
>>> -anupam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Shuddha ,
>>>>
>>>> What is good about your politics which does not come out in straight
>>>> condemnation of the massacre by the Maoist without mincing words.
>>>>
>>>> This is a war ...you are either with it or against it.
>>>>
>>>> Pawan
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Shuddhabrata Sengupta <shuddha at sarai.net> wrote:
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>> Whenever I hear of 'iron fists', I reach for my 'velevet glove'. : ).
>>>>> I strongly condemn any move to call for 'iron fist' treatment of anyone who
>>>>> is not a combatant.  Let me elaborate.
>>>>> I intensely dislike, and am opposed to the politics of Pawan Durani and some
>>>>> of his friends on this list. I think their agendas are dangerous and
>>>>> divisive. But I do not think that people should be treated with 'iron fists'
>>>>> merely for holding and expressing an opinion, no matter how objectionable
>>>>> that opinion may be. It is a crime to set off an IED or a mine or kill
>>>>> someone, but it is not a crime to call for an understanding of the
>>>>> motivations of those that do, or even to say that these acts of violence are
>>>>> part of a 'just war'. And the crucial difference between these two lines of
>>>>> action is the very basis on which an open society is built and sustained.
>>>>> But, just as, if the Maoists were to start targetting pro-establishment
>>>>> journalists instead of combatants, they would be violating a fundamental
>>>>> code of how armed conflict ought to be conducted, so too, when people call
>>>>> for 'targeting' Maoist sympathizers along with combatants, as if the realm
>>>>> of discourse and opinions were a battlefield where punitive and military
>>>>> measures can and ought to be taken, they are pointing us in the direction of
>>>>> a closed, authoritarian society - where all of society is a prison camp.
>>>>> Where people are prosecuted not on the grounds of what they do, but on the
>>>>> grounds of what they think, or believe, or what other people think they
>>>>> think.
>>>>> The taking of human life is never something we need to celebrate. The deaths
>>>>> of the more than 75 people in an ambush is not something that anyone can
>>>>> exult over. But, to be fair, if this party, which was on an 'area domination
>>>>> exercise' came across a squad of Maoists who happened to be less prepared
>>>>> than them, the killed would have been the killers. These two forces are at
>>>>> war, and in a war, combatants are not expected to shoot to kill, not to hold
>>>>> their fire.
>>>>> As is evident from what I have written, much of which has appeared here
>>>>> earlier, I have little sympathy for the politics of the Maoists. But I
>>>>> strongly feel that we should also think about the culpability of those who
>>>>> are pushing the CRPF jawans into a war to defend the interests of rapacious
>>>>> mining companies. They are just as responsible for these deaths as those who
>>>>> planted the mines or pulled the triggers, just as the American presidents
>>>>> who sent young American men into war in Vietnam were equally responsible for
>>>>> their deaths, as were the Vietcong. The soldiers who are pushed into the
>>>>> frontline of any war are the victims of the decisions made by the commanders
>>>>> of two armies, their own, as well as of their opponents.
>>>>> And frankly, if , the story had turned the other way around, if 75 Maoists
>>>>> were killed in a CRPF ambush, those who are asking for 'iron fists' to crush
>>>>> Maoists and their sympathisers today would be celebrating. Arnab Goswamy
>>>>> would be singing an aria.
>>>>> I see a large casualty figure as an occasion to mourn, to reflect on what is
>>>>> making the violence happen, not as a reason to call for authoritarian
>>>>> measures.  If, we feel strongly about the toll that this war is taking, we
>>>>> should be feeling just as strongly, regardless of which side the casualties
>>>>> are on.
>>>>> I watched a hysterical Arnab Goswami go ballistic last night on television,
>>>>> asking for measures that will 'wipe out' the menace, that will tackle
>>>>> 'sympathizers'. He kept asking two of his panelists whom he had  decided
>>>>> were Maoist sympathisers, despite at least one of them disagreeing with that
>>>>> appelation, whether they were 'with the Indian people' or 'against' them.
>>>>> Now, if you are a Maoist, you will automatically reply that killing the
>>>>> armed police and militaries of the Indian state automatically proves that
>>>>> you are with the Indian people, since the state is the Indian state, in
>>>>> their view, is the monster oppressing the Indian people. In this case, both
>>>>> the CRPF officers who send their jawans into be slaughtered, as well as the
>>>>> Maoists commanders who order the slaughter, act in the name of the same
>>>>> 'Indian people'. Both use the language of 'wiping off' the opposition. Both
>>>>> seem to need massacres to justify their very existence. The 'indian people'
>>>>> must be truly bloodthirsty if so much blood is being shed in its name by
>>>>> opposite forces in an escalating war
>>>>>  I do not recall this intensity of condemnation during instances where
>>>>> massacres in 'Naxal' affected regions have happened earlier (with a
>>>>> difference in the protagonists of the massacres) say in Bihar, at Laxmanpur
>>>>> Bathe, or at Arwal, or Mianpur, where upper caste / landlord militias with
>>>>> the tacit backing of the police slaughtered peasant activists (Arwal, 24
>>>>> people died in 1986, Laxmanpur Bathe, 58 people died in 1997, Mianpur, 35
>>>>> people died in 2001). Do the hackles of our 'patriots' rise more when
>>>>> Maoists or Naxals are doing the killing than when peasants or tribals are
>>>>> killed by upper caste militias, outfits like the Salwa Judum or the state's
>>>>> police and paramilitary forces.
>>>>> If you look at the table of casualties in the South Asian Terrorism Portal
>>>>> for casualties in Naxal affected regions in Bihar for the period between
>>>>> 1976 and 2001, for instance, you can see clearly that 86 or so massacres and
>>>>> incidents of violence were cased by a combination of upper caste militias
>>>>> and the state police.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the overwhelming majority of incidents. But I do not recall anyone
>>>>> having the gall to say on prime time television that the upper/landed caste
>>>>> militias or the Bihar State police and their sympathizers should be 'wiped
>>>>> out' or that their 'sympathizers' (who include activists of every single
>>>>> mainstream political party in India) should be treated with an 'iron fist'.
>>>>> http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/terroristoutfits/massacres.htm
>>>>> Is this not a case of one standard for 'Maoists' and their actual and/or
>>>>> supposed sympathizers, and quite another for everyone else ?
>>>>> best
>>>>> Shuddha
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07-Apr-10, at 2:22 PM, Pawan Durani wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It's high time that not only Maosists , but their supporters are
>>>>> handled with iron fist.
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Pawan
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Asit asitreds <asitredsalute at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> what about the voilence in gujrat bhagalpur etc which have killed hundred
>>>>> times more people than in dantewada
>>>>>  what about tens of thousands of noncobatant civilan population killed by
>>>>> security forces in northeast kashmir and punjab
>>>>> asit
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/6/10, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> …and committed a strategic mistake at Dantewada
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason why Naxalites have been able to sustain their insurgency
>>>>> for so long is due to three main reasons: the absence or failure of
>>>>> governance; the romanticism and propaganda of their overground
>>>>> sympathisers; and, finally, due to the relatively subliminal nature of
>>>>> their violence.
>>>>> To the extent that their violence was distributed in space and time
>>>>> they could slip in and out of the public mind, pursue on-and-off talks
>>>>> with state governments and generally avoid provoking the government
>>>>> into hitting back hard. Over the last five years Naxalites have
>>>>> violently expanded the geographical spread of their extortion and
>>>>> protection rackets—yet, the violence in any given place and time has
>>>>> been below a certain threshold. That threshold itself is high for a
>>>>> number of reasons, including efforts by their sympathisers to
>>>>> romanticise their violence, spectacular terrorist attacks by jihadi
>>>>> groups and due to the remoteness of the areas of their operations.
>>>>> This allowed Naxalites to get away with murder. A lot of times. In a
>>>>> lot of places. Literally.
>>>>> But killing 73 out of 80 (or 120) CRPF and police personnel in a short
>>>>> span of time in a single battle is no longer subliminal violence. In
>>>>> all likelihood the Naxalites have crossed a threshold—this incident is
>>>>> likely to stay much longer in the public mind and increase the
>>>>> pressure on politicians to tackle the Naxalite threat with greater
>>>>> resolve. Also, given that it has also become an issue of P
>>>>> Chidambaram’s—and hence the UPA government’s—reputation, the gloves
>>>>> are likely to come off in the coming weeks.
>>>>> There’s a chance that India’s psychological threshold is even higher.
>>>>> But it is more likely that the Naxalites have overreached. Perhaps
>>>>> their leadership has calculated that they are in the next stage of
>>>>> their revolutionary war. If so, that would neither the first nor the
>>>>> only delusion in their minds.
>>>>> http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2010/04/06/the-naxalites-overreached/
>>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> Shuddhabrata Sengupta
>>>>> The Sarai Programme at CSDS
>>>>> Raqs Media Collective
>>>>> shuddha at sarai.net
>>>>> www.sarai.net
>>>>> www.raqsmediacollective.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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