[Reader-list] More Kashmir comes out....

Tue Aug 10 13:22:05 IST 2010

Dear Kamal Hak,

Are you doubting what Shudda is saying.This is Kufr here.
If he says they did not say a thing then they did not irrespective of
whether they did or not.
I support Shuddha.

Rashneek

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Kamal Hak <kamalhak at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ha Ha Ha Shuddha, I admit I have been naive. I really pity myself for not
> recording the deafening roars of Azadi ka matlab kya- La illaha illalah. I
> believe people with hearing impairment find the large sounds entering their
> ears only as a small vibration of an inaudible wave. You may have
> contributed towards a new finding in science where a person finds a small,
> feeble cry of a single individual as a resounding roar. I was also present
> there and I also know what was said, what was meant and what was not said.
> Going by your argument that speaker after speaker urged the people not to
> raise communal slogans, will you please enlighten us what was the need for
> them to do so?
>
> Regards,
>
> Kamal Hak
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 2:13 AM, shuddha at sarai.net <shuddha at sarai.net
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I was present during the demonstration on Saturday evening, at which some
> > of
> > the people from RIK were also present. I heard what was said and I know
> > what
> > was not said.
> >
> > The Nara-e-Tadbir, Allah-0-Akbar slogan was raised, and I have written
> > about
> > this in my earlier post.
> >
> > On one occasion, one individual in the section of the crowd opposite to
> > where I
> > was standing, did say, 'Azaadi ka Matlab Kya, La Illaha-Illallah', he was
> > admonished by those around him, for raising a secterian slogan.
> Repeatedly,
> > speaker after speaker said that no 'communal slogans' should be raised.
> One
> > woman got up from the audience, went to the microphone and made a
> > passionate
> > appeal not to be distracted by a communal agenda.
> >
> > Actually, there was a person sitting quite close to where I stood, who
> said
> > in
> > a distinctly Eastern UP/ Bihar accent, slightly sheepishly, Hindustan ki
> > Janata
> > Kashmir ki Azaadi ki Larai ke Saath hai. No one responded to him, just as
> > no one
> > had responded the slogan - of - 'Azaadi ka Matlab Kya, La
> Illaha-Illallah'.
> >
> > There were no references to Nizam e Mustafa, Azaadi Baraye Islam. No one
> > said
> > 'Kashmir mein rehna hai to Alah-O-Akbar kahna hoga'. My hearing is not
> > impaired, if any one has said it out aloud, i would have heard it. There
> > were
> > repeated sloganeering of 'Pandit , Muslim, Sikh, Sare Kashmiri ek hain'.
> >
> > I want to point all this out in some detail, to show that the gathering
> did
> > not
> > raise slogans that called for foisting an Islamist state in Kashmir, as
> is
> > being
> > alleged by Kamal Hak. To equate the demand for Azaadi automatically with
> > the
> > demand for an Islamist state is a gross oversimplification. It also ends
> up
> > providing the hard-core islamists in the 'Azaadi' camp with a
> legitimation
> > that
> > we should not assume they automatically have. It is no surprise that this
> > is
> > gifted to them by their opposite numbers, a communalized, prejudiced
> core,
> > within the 'Indian Nationalist' flank , that vitiates the atmosphere .
> >
> > The following day's, Sunday's protest, at Jantar Mantar, was even more
> > restrained. From what I gather from people who were there, there was not
> > even
> > the 'Allah o Akbar' slogan. Yes, the RIK and allied protestors who had
> come
> > again on Sunday, were loud, and noisy, yes, apparently several of them
> used
> > objectionable and unparliamentary language. If there was an aggressive
> use
> > of
> > words, I know where it would have come from.
> >
> > best
> >
> > Shuddha
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 07:24:46 +0000 kamalhak at gmail.com wrote
> >
> > > Hum kya chahtey azadi- azadi ka matlab kya- La-illaha-illalaha.
> > >
> > > Naraiy tadbir- Allah-O-Akbar
> > >
> > > Aditya, Rashneek and the likes of their ilk are naïve to misrepresent
> the
> > > above slogans as islamist. They also behave as fascists while talking
> > about
> > > Kashmiri  aspirations of Nizame-Mustafa being the principal reason
> behind
> > > their exile.
> > >
> > > It is the reflection of their communal mind set that makes them to see
> > wolf
> > > in slogans like, Kashmir mein rehna hai to Alah-O-Akbar kahna hoga.
> > >
> > > Above all it is their immaturity to talk about unfashionable concepts
> > like
> > > Bharat Mata ki jai.
> > > Aditya and Rashneek, you are sleeping like Rip Van Winkle and have been
> > left
> > > far behind the times.
> > > Rashneek, I believe poetry is your passion. You must understand
> Kabir's,
> > 'tum
> > > kahtey ho kagaz dekhi- main kahta hoon ankhan dekhi' no longer holds
> true
> > in
> > > contemporary India. There are two types of people who abound this
> nation,
> > if
> > > you still this country to be one, now.
> > > One half is like Dhritrashtra who was blind by providence; the other
> half
> > is
> > > like Ghandari, who chose to be blind by choice. You can't make either
> to
> > see.
> > > So stop being like kids, capture the mindset of people and join the
> > crowd.
> > > You will soon become a hero.
> > >
> > > Kamal Hak
> > > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "shuddha at sarai.net" <shuddha at sarai.net>
> > > Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net
> > > Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:02:35
> > > To: sarai list<reader-list at sarai.net>; Aditya Raj
> > > Kaul<kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] More Kashmir comes out....
> > >
> > > Aditya,
> > >
> > > The list does not take allegations of 'terrorism' lightly. The person
> you
> > are
> > > talking about happens to be a friend of mine, and I would again ask you
> > to
> > > refrain from making allegations that you cannot prove, and that have
> been
> > > thrown out in court, not on 'technicalities'. The absence of evidence,
> > and
> > > the
> > > manufacture of false evidence is not a 'technicality'.
> > >
> > > I was present on Saturday evening at Jantar Mantar, as were you, and as
> > were
> > > several others, none of whom are 'Islamist Propagandists'. There may
> have
> > > been
> > > some Islamists in the gathering, but by no means does that mean that
> the
> > > majority of those present were in any way Islamist.
> > >
> > > My unambiguous positions against 'Islamism' are public, and well known,
> > > especially to Islamists. I am sure there were many others who were
> > present at
> > > Jantar Mantar who, like me, cannot by any stretch of imagination be
> > called
> > > 'Islamist'.
> > >
> > > Also, calling reports such as those published in the Times of India,
> > > Hindustan
> > > Times, Economic Times and the Outlook, written by Sanjay Kak, Hilal
> Mir,
> > > Basharat Peer and Suveer Kaul 'planted' only exposes you to the
> > possibility
> > > of
> > > being exposed for sheer humbuggery, and makes you liable to the charge
> of
> > > libel. Are you suggesting that now the Indian mainstream media is
> > nowadays
> > > being influenced by stories planted by the IB that endorse an
> > 'Anti-State'
> > > line. Is the Intelligence Bureau, and its peers (the only ones in a
> > position
> > > to
> > > 'plant' stories in the media) now working hand in glove with
> separatists
> > in
> > > Kashmir. So, is the sentiment for azaadi now a plaything in the hands
> of
> > the
> > > Indian intelligence apparatus. Let's take this thought to its logical
> > > conclusion. If the Indian intelligence agencies are backing Kashmiri
> > > separatists and all those who argue for self determination in Kashmir,
> > then
> > > logically, Indian nationalists ought to be cozying up to the Pakistani
> > ISI.
> > > What does that make the Roots in Kashmir and the Panun Kashmir network
> -
> > an
> > > objective ally of the Pakistani ISI?
> > >
> > > If that is so, it is news to me, and ought to be, to everyone in the
> > whole
> > > wide
> > > world.
> > >
> > > Please refrain from dissimulation and disinformation,
> > >
> > > best,
> > >
> > > Shuddha
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:59:12 +0530 Aditya Raj Kaul <
> > kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
> > > wrote
> > >
> > > > The tragic stories which reflect reality are rarely to be found in
> > media.
> > > >
> > > > We just see planted articles in The Times of India and Hindustan
> Times;
> > > > quite frequent in last few days. Clearly, they are successful in
> > spreading
> > > > propaganda.
> > > >
> > > > Islamic Propagandists led my well known 'terrorist' (out on technical
> > > > grounds) had taken over Jantar Mantar with communal sloganeering. If
> > this
> > > > can happen in New Delhi, we know how the remaining 3000 Pandits back
> in
> > > > Kashmir would be living in fear psychosis after separatist
> threatening.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Aditya Raj Kaul
> > > >
> > > > India Editor
> > > > The Indian, Australia
> > > >
> > > > Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/
> > > >
> > > > 2010/8/9 Sanjay Kak <kaksanjay at gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > > This news item is clearly a scoop, a breaking story that neither
> the
> > the
> > > > > hundred strong "Indian" press corps in Srinagar, nor the internet
> > with
> > > > > its
> > > > > dozens of egroups, have been able to get at...
> > > > > Impressive, or suspect...
> > > > > "Amar Ujala" is clearly headed for the big time in the news story
> > > > > business.
> > > > > Best
> > > > > Sanjay
> > > > >
> > > > > 2010/8/9 rashneek kher <rashneek at gmail.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > > *Under Separatist Threatening Kashmiri Pandits leave the valley*
> -
> > > > > > http://www.amarujal
> > > > > > a.com/city/ CityDetail.
> > > > > > aspx?id=1063&cid=143<
> > > > > > http://www.amarujala.com/city/CityDetail.aspx?id=1063&cid=143>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  *दहशत में छह पंडित
> > परिवारों
> > > ने किया पलायन*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Story Update : Monday, August 09, 2010    12:47 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > श्रीनगर। घाटी में
> > > > > > उपद्रवियों ने
> > > अल्पसंख्यकों
> > > > > > को निशाना बनाना शुरू कर
> > > दिया
> > > > > > है। अल्पसंख्यकों के घरों
> > > > > > में पथराव की घटनाओं में भी
> > > > > > इजाफा हुआ है। नतीजतन
> > > > > > घाटी से छह कश्मीरी पंडित
> > > परिवारों ने पलायन कर लिया है।
> > > हब्बाकदल और डाउन
> > > > > > टाउन
> > > > > > से ताल्लुक रखने वाले इन
> > > > > > परिवारों ने १९९० में पलायन
> > > > > > नहीं किया था। उपद्रवी
> > > > > > सिख
> > > > > > समुदाय को भी भारत विरोधी
> > > प्रदर्शनों में शामिल होने के
> > > लिए मजबूर कर रहे
> > > > > हैं।
> > > > > > गुरुद्वारों में धमकी भरे
> > > > > > पत्र फेंके जा रहे हैं।
> > > इनमें
> > > > > > लिखा गया है कि भारत
> > > > > > विरोधी प्रदर्शनों में
> > > > > > शामिल नहीं हुए तो घाटी
> > > छोड़नी
> > > > > > पड़ेगी। बाहरी राज्यों
> > > > > > से
> > > > > > श्रीनगर में कारोबार करने
> > > वालों को भी घाटी छोड़ने की
> > > धमकी दी गई है।
> > > > > > अल्पसंख्यकों के एक
> > > शिष्टमंडल ने कट्टरपंथी
> > > अलगाववादी नेता सैयद अली शाह
> > > > > > गिलानी
> > > > > > से भी मुलाकात की है।
> > > > > > आमीरा कदल गुरुद्वारा
> > > > > > प्रबंधक कमेटी के अध्यक्ष
> > > > > > सरदार केएन सिंह का कहना है
> > > > > कि
> > > > > > असामाजिक तत्वों ने त्राल,
> > > औलची बाग सहित मेहजूर नगर
> > > गुरुद्वारों में यह
> > > > > गुप्त
> > > > > > पत्र फेंके हैं। इन पत्रों
> > > को जल्द ही सरकार को सौंप दिया
> > > जाएगा। घाटी में
> > > > > १८२
> > > > > > अलग-अलग जगहों पर रहने वाले
> > > > > > ६६२ कश्मीरी पंडित
> > परिवारों
> > > > > > के २८४५ सदस्य दहशत
> > > > > > भरे
> > > > > > माहौल में रह रहे हैं। आल
> > > > > > माइग्रेंट कोआर्डिनेशन
> > > कमेटी
> > > > > > के अध्यक्ष विनोद कौल
> > > > > > का
> > > > > > कहना है कि पलायन करने वाले
> > > परिवार दहशत के माहौल में रह
> > > रहे थे। डा.
> > > > > > अग्निशेखर
> > > > > > का भी कहना है कि पंडितों की
> > > वापसी का दावा करने वाली सरकार
> > > को इस घटना से
> > > > > सबक
> > > > > > सीखना होगा। राजस्व मंत्री
> > > रमन भल्ला ने कहा कि उन्हें
> > अभी
> > > तक कोई सूचना
> > > > > नहीं
> > > > > > मिली है।
> > > > > >  *दहशत में छह पंडित
> > परिवारों
> > > ने किया पलायन*
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Story Update : Monday, August 09, 2010    12:47 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > श्रीनगर। घाटी में
> > > > > > उपद्रवियों ने
> > > अल्पसंख्यकों
> > > > > > को निशाना बनाना शुरू कर
> > > दिया
> > > > > > है। अल्पसंख्यकों के घरों
> > > > > > में पथराव की घटनाओं में भी
> > > > > > इजाफा हुआ है। नतीजतन
> > > > > > घाटी से छह कश्मीरी पंडित
> > > परिवारों ने पलायन कर लिया है।
> > > हब्बाकदल और डाउन
> > > > > > टाउन
> > > > > > से ताल्लुक रखने वाले इन
> > > > > > परिवारों ने १९९० में पलायन
> > > > > > नहीं किया था। उपद्रवी
> > > > > > सिख
> > > > > > समुदाय को भी भारत विरोधी
> > > प्रदर्शनों में शामिल होने के
> > > लिए मजबूर कर रहे
> > > > > हैं।
> > > > > > गुरुद्वारों में धमकी भरे
> > > > > > पत्र फेंके जा रहे हैं।
> > > इनमें
> > > > > > लिखा गया है कि भारत
> > > > > > विरोधी प्रदर्शनों में
> > > > > > शामिल नहीं हुए तो घाटी
> > > छोड़नी
> > > > > > पड़ेगी। बाहरी राज्यों
> > > > > > से
> > > > > > श्रीनगर में कारोबार करने
> > > वालों को भी घाटी छोड़ने की
> > > धमकी दी गई है।
> > > > > > अल्पसंख्यकों के एक
> > > शिष्टमंडल ने कट्टरपंथी
> > > अलगाववादी नेता सैयद अली शाह
> > > > > > गिलानी
> > > > > > से भी मुलाकात की है।
> > > > > > आमीरा कदल गुरुद्वारा
> > > > > > प्रबंधक कमेटी के अध्यक्ष
> > > > > > सरदार केएन सिंह का कहना है
> > > > > कि
> > > > > > असामाजिक तत्वों ने त्राल,
> > > औलची बाग सहित मेहजूर नगर
> > > गुरुद्वारों में यह
> > > > > गुप्त
> > > > > > पत्र फेंके हैं। इन पत्रों
> > > को जल्द ही सरकार को सौंप दिया
> > > जाएगा। घाटी में
> > > > > १८२
> > > > > > अलग-अलग जगहों पर रहने वाले
> > > > > > ६६२ कश्मीरी पंडित
> > परिवारों
> > > > > > के २८४५ सदस्य दहशत
> > > > > > भरे
> > > > > > माहौल में रह रहे हैं। आल
> > > > > > माइग्रेंट कोआर्डिनेशन
> > > कमेटी
> > > > > > के अध्यक्ष विनोद कौल
> > > > > > का
> > > > > > कहना है कि पलायन करने वाले
> > > परिवार दहशत के माहौल में रह
> > > रहे थे। डा.
> > > > > > अग्निशेखर
> > > > > > का भी कहना है कि पंडितों की
> > > वापसी का दावा करने वाली सरकार
> > > को इस घटना से
> > > > > सबक
> > > > > > सीखना होगा। राजस्व मंत्री
> > > रमन भल्ला ने कहा कि उन्हें
> > अभी
> > > तक कोई सूचना
> > > > > नहीं
> > > > > > मिली है।
> > > > > >
> > > > > > best regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rashneek Kher
> > > > > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
> > > > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com
> > > > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
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> > > > > _________________________________________
> > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > > > > subscribe in the subject header.
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> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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> > > > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe
> > > > in the subject header.
> > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________
> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> > subscribe
> > > in the subject header.
> > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Kamal Hak
> "Zuv Shum Braman Ghara Gasa Ha"
>  _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>

-- 
Rashneek Kher
http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com