[Reader-list] Fw: Visit to Pandit migrant camps in Jammu 2002- A personal account

[gowhar fazli]

A point by point response to Kshmendra’s queries:  I am engaging in plain talk 
at times and  I hope it does not hurt your sentiments because that it not the 
intension.  I would have ideally desired to take more time on this but for my 
other engagements.  I hope this is somewhat useful.
 
K: Would you agree that they were/are not migrants but were forced by 
circumstances to seek refuge? Wouldn’t 'refugees' or 'internally displaced' be a 
better term? What do you think?
 
G: I think there are differing views on how and why Pandits left.  Personally I 
feel the atmosphere would have been really scary. It was for us too. Though 
there were some targeted killings and acts of deliberate humiliation against 
individual Pandits, it is the larger fear in a more diffused form that would 
have threatened the community at large.  The tone the resistance movement in 
Kashmir started adopting as the time went by and as the state became more and 
more repressive, became radical.  I think it was best for Pandits to have left 
at that time, but at no cost should they have severed political and social ties 
with Kashmir and stopped engaging with the discourse in Kashmir.   

 
I am not an expert on nomenclature of people who are displaced nor did I want to 
derive any political mileage out of calling them ‘migrants’.  The reason why I 
may have preferred to use the word ‘migrant’ was not to get into a similar 
debate on nomenclature with Kashmiri Muslims who use this word and thus lose the 
affect I was trying to communicate in political jargon.  This report was 
presented before an open public audience in Srinagar.
 
K: Do you think this exercise can be duplicated with this time around the 
Kashmiri Pandits visiting Kashmir and similar arrangements for them to meet at 
least some of those who have similarly suffered intense miseries and more? Is 
there any such existing mechanism?
 
G: Though no permanent mechanism exists, I can put you across to friends who can 
and will help you, including some who were part of the earlier initiative.  If 
you are really serious you, should use a reasonably neutral or credible base to 
make such a sensitive move.  Even just as a thought, it is appreciable.
 
K: Your 2002 report concludes with the comment "a tremendous and deep felt 
desire to restore the broken relationships and the way of life that has been 
lost." Do you think that sentiment still exists? Can the gulf of 'broken 
relationships' be bridged, by word and action and some sort of a 'return'? If 
yes; How? 
 
G:  I was referring to the energy we felt in the gathering of over hundred 
people who turned up in Porkhu and the number of families and individuals we met 
outside the camp.  

 
There is no discourse regarding this in the public sphere at the moment. People 
have obvious pressing concerns regarding their survival in the ongoing violence 
and repression.  
 
Individually many people retain personal contacts and feel the sentiment.  
Politically no group opposes return of Pandits and all have a stated position of 
wanting the Pandits to return.  Personally I think possible return of Pandits is 
hostage to the resolution of Kashmir problem in a civilized manner.  Redemption 
of all Kashmirs is in seeking such a solution.  The more bloodshed there is, and 
the longer it takes, the harder it will get.  I think in the meanwhile if more 
and more Pandits engage with Kashmir from a moral and principled perspective 
rather than a jingoistic and demonizing manner like it happened near Jantar 
Mantar,  Kashmiri Muslims are actually large hearted, accommodative and 
gregarious… and you know it.
 
K: Connectedly, why do you think it is seen necessary by the Kashmiri Pandits 
still residing in Kashmir to go and weep in front of SAS Geelani and beg for 
protection?
 
G: It shouldn’t be necessary and it is shocking.  But a society in which naked 
dance of brutality and violence takes place on a daily basis will throw up some 
deranged people, don’t you think.  You should not expect otherwise.  

 
K: Connectedly, why was there no hue and cry by the much vaunted Civil Society 
of Kashmir when Kashmiri Pandits were told that they have to be part of the 
Tehreek?
 
G:Were they!  By whom?  What exactly did they mean?  It is possible people would 
have expected Pandits to have acted as a buffer between the Indian state which 
was becoming more and more communal as the people engaged in a political 
struggle, especially when it unleashed violence on the masses and not expect 
Pandits to be aloof and thus tacitly support the Indian state.
 
K: Connectedly, if the overwhelming sentiment amongst Kashmiri Muslims (who 
desire separation from India) is towards an Independent Kashmir why does SAS 
(Kashmir should be with Pakistan) Geelani get the kind of space he does without 
receiving strong condemnation?
 
The state gives him space and locks up or discredits the moderates.  Secondly, 
more the oppression more radical the population will become.  Many people hate 
Geelani personally, but their respect for him is increasing because of his 
constant unflinching stand.  Various moderates were pulled into secret or open 
talks by the state and then discredited by exposing the secret talks or because 
the Indian sate did not budge an inch and thus the moderates were seen to have 
brought humiliation upon the people who believe their stand is just.
 
In response to the reponse to the earlier post: 
 
With respect to the post about Kashmiri Pandits having lost their Kashmiriat by 
an ordinary Muslim participant, it was to demonstrate how the Pandit performance 
at Jantar Mantar was received by the people, for its sheer insensitivity in 
terms timing and not the politics they might otherwise uphold.  Attacking the 
people who are seeking separatism while brandishing a National flag and 
counterpoising Pandit suffering to undermine the loss suffered, even while the 
blood is still dripping off the bodies in Kashmir, was grossly insensitive.  It 
is like you turn up on my child’s funeral and try to disrupt it because you too 
have suffered loss some twenty years before.  

As for the suffering in exile it is very sad, but Kashmiri’s in Kashmir are not 
exactly home and safe.  

I agree that there is a set of people seeking Azadi for Islam but it does not 
constitute a majority. And even among those who apparently say they stand for 
Islam, for a great many, their interpretation of Islam itself means 
accommodation of and justice for all.  

At the moment people more sure of what they do not want, rather than what 
exactly they want.  Pandits could have been a great help in shaping and steering 
this discourse (like some of them did as the fall of the Maharaja precipitated, 
Bhushan Bazaz to mention just one) had they not ideologically succumbed to the 
Hindu right wing in great numbers.




________________________________
From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
To: "reader-list at sarai.net" <reader-list at sarai.net>; gowhar fazli 
<gowharfazili at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 4:05:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: Visit to Pandit migrant camps in Jammu 2002- A 
personal account


Dear Gowhar

I understand.

No easy answers.

Take care

Kshmendra 

--- On Thu, 8/12/10, gowhar fazli <gowharfazili at yahoo.com> wrote:


>From: gowhar fazli <gowharfazili at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Visit to Pandit migrant camps in Jammu 2002- A 
>personal account
>To: "reader-list at sarai.net" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 3:54 PM
>
>
>
>
>Very pertinent questions on both my posts requiring serious reflection Kshmendra 
>
>and I would not make light of them by replying a hurry.  I must confess that I 
>am personally struggling with ambivalences often between mutually  exclusive and 
>
>contradictory concerns and may not have clear answers for everything. However i 

>promise I will try.  Thanks for reading the whole thing.
>
>In the meanwhile others who may have energy to engage may go ahead.
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
>To: "reader-list at sarai.net" <reader-list at sarai.net>; gowhar fazli 
><gowharfazili at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 3:25:24 PM
>Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Visit to Pandit migrant camps in Jammu 2002- A 
>personal account
>
>
>Dear Gowhar
>
>Thank you for sharing this. 
>
>Would you agree that they were/are not migrants but were forced by circumstances 
>
>to seek refuge? Wouldnt 'refugees' or 'internally displaced' be a better term? 
>What do you think?
>
>Do you think this exercise can be duplicated with this time around the Kashmiri 

>Pandits visiting Kashmir and similar arrangements for them to meet at least some 
>
>of those who have similarly suffered intense miseries and more? Is there any 
>such existing mechanism?
>
>Your 2002 report conclude with  the comment "a tremendous and deep felt desire 
>to restore the  broken relationships and the way of life that has been lost." Do 
>
>you think that sentiment still exists? Can the gulf of 'broken relationships' be 
>
>bridged, by word and action and some sort of a 'return'? If yes; How? 
>
>Connectedly, why do you think it is seen neccessary by the Kashmiri Pandits 
>still residing in Kashmir to go and weep in front of SAS Geelani and beg for 
>protection?
>
>Connectedly, why was there no hue and cry by the much vaunted Civil Society of 
>Kashmir when Kashmiri Pandits were told that they have to be part of the 
>Tehreek?
>
>Connectedly, if the overwhelming sentiment amongst Kashmiri Muslims (who desire 

>separation from India) is towards an Independent Kashmir why does SAS (Kashmir 
>should be with Pakistan) Geelani get the kind of space he does without receiving 
>
>strong condemnation?
>
>Kshmendra
>
>
>--- On Thu, 8/12/10, gowhar fazli <gowharfazili at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>From: gowhar fazli <gowharfazili at yahoo.com>
>>Subject: [Reader-list] Visit to Pandit migrant camps in Jammu 2002- A personal 

>>account
>>To: "reader-list at sarai.net" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>>Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 11:51 AM
>>
>>
>>Visit to Pandit migrant camps in Jammu 2002- A personal  account
>>By Gowhar Fazili
>>
>>After the first reconciliation workshop involving Kashmiri  Pandits and Kashmiri 
>>
>>
>>Muslim it was decided that a team of Muslim participants  would visit migrant 
>>camps in Jammu in continuation of the process that had just  begun to unfold by 
>
>
>>the end of the workshop. We realized that enormous amount of  courage on part of 
>>
>>
>>the participants led them to share their personal and  collective grief and 
>>suffering. We witnessed that honest sharing can transform  people and must be 
>>respected and valued. To further explore the spirit of  oneness in suffering and 
>>
>>
>>to take it beyond the confines of the meeting venue, a  visit by some Kashmiri 

>>Muslim participants was to be the next step. 
>>
>>
>>Accordingly, my friend and I were deputed to visit Jammu in  the month of 
>>September and we visited homes of Pandit participants residing in  and outside 

>>the camps and also met with some other members of the community.  The experience 
>>
>>
>>generated so many emotions and thoughts that it will take a  lifetime to unpack 
>
>
>>them but I will try to share some of the observations that  can be made. 
>>
>>
>>When I told some of my friends in Srinagar about the plan,  they asked why I 
>>should be visiting Pandit camps while the suffering is far too  greater here in 
>
>
>>Kashmir and no one is bothered. There are too many widows,  orphans, bereaved 
>>and people who have lost their homes and property in the  ongoing turmoil in the 
>>
>>
>>valley, while Pandits in Jammu are better off by far.  Some said that Pandits 
>>are a pampered lot. Both the central and the state  government pamper Pandits 
>>and they are living better lives in the safety of  camps in Jammu than any of us 
>>
>>
>>here. They also said that everybody from the  humanitarian organizations to 
>>politicians visit Jammu camps as a priority while  we (Kashmiri Muslims) are 
>>merely seen as terrorists who deserve what they are  undergoing because we are 

>>supposedly the source of all trouble. 
>>
>>
>>Nevertheless we went ahead with our plan, if only to know if  the stories that 

>>take rounds in Srinagar are true and to what extent. How do  Pandits themselves 
>
>
>>feel about their migration from Kashmir valley, which has  been their home for 

>>ages? Are they living away from their homeland by choice?  What were the 
>>circumstances, which compelled them to leave? Was it merely state  policy whisk 
>
>
>>Pandits to safety, as many believe in Srinagar or was their enough  fear in the 
>
>
>>atmosphere to have made a community of a such small size feel  vulnerable and 
>>unsafe? What is it really like for a Kashmiri, used to living in  spacious house 
>>
>>
>>to live in a camp? What is the condition of the camps ... and so  many questions 
>>
>>
>>that could be answered only through experience and first hand  interaction. 
>>
>>
>>Since we arrived in Jammu on the eve of a festival, we did  not think it prudent 
>>
>>
>>to land up in the camps right away. We stayed in a hotel  and from there called 
>
>
>>some people we had met in the reconciliation workshop and  fixed to visit their 
>
>
>>places on the next day. But even before we set out for our  visits we received 

>>an early morning delegation of Pandits associated with the  Chamber of Commerce. 
>>
>>
>>They had heard about our work and were curious to know  more. They appreciated 

>>the idea of faith based reconciliation and assured us  their support especially 
>
>
>>in the section of people associated with trade and  commerce. They also spoke of 
>>
>>
>>the efforts they had made earlier to maintain  relationship between the members 
>
>
>>of the two communities but that they could not  sustain it for too long. They 
>>also emphasized the need for a place in Jammu so  that there could be sustained 
>
>
>>communication between the people of two  communities. 
>>
>>
>>From then on Anil (one of the participants in the workshop)  played our host and 
>>
>>
>>guided us to residences of the members. He had already  fixed our schedule for 

>>the day and we felt very relaxed to be guided in this  manner. We began by 
>>visiting members who lived outside the camps. The houses we  visited looked 
>>similar to the ones in Kashmir as though there were a deliberate  effort to live 
>>
>>
>>back the life as it was in Kashmir. One of the houses even had  an elaborately 

>>and exquisitely designed Chinar like gate. The residents  explained that this 
>>keeps the memory of my homeland alive. We felt very much at  home possibly 
>>because of our common culture and the foods that we were treated  to. The 
>>conversations went on endlessly as they do in Kashmir. There was a  special 
>>feeling like when we meet relatives separated from us for a long time.  There 
>>was so much to catch up on. We could sense among our hosts a deep longing  and 

>>love for the homeland. It didn't need to be said it was clearly evident by  the 
>
>
>>manner in which they had maintained continuity with their way of life in an  
>>alien land and the profusion artifacts that they had surrounded themselves  
>>with. We could also sense genuine gladness in their eyes to receive us in their  
>>
>>
>>homes and I guess a lot of healing must have taken place while we shared about  
>
>
>>our experiences and the situations we are faced with in either place. 
>>
>>
>>The greatest fear that seemed to override the minds of most  Kashmiri Pandits 
>>was not economic loss but the fear of losing community itself  in the vast sea 

>>of humanity that is India... They so much want to remain  Kashmiris and so 
>>easily find extension of their selves among the co- community  of Kashmiri 
>>Muslims. At least with Kashmiri Muslims they can share the  language, culture 
>>and the local idiom even though their religion is different.  They can talk to 

>>us and share the inherited meanings while it is not possible  with 
>>co-religionists from other parts of India. In Kashmir they also shared a  
>>relationship of mutual respect with other Kashmiris, while in a place like  
>>Jammu or Delhi no one recognizes them as a special community. They are merely  

>>outsiders who are encroaching on the local resources. But even now when we meet  
>>
>>
>>after thirteen years of separation, we seem to be familiar and know how to  
>>address each other and can share so much. In all our conversations the use of  

>>'we' to signify all Kashmiris including Muslims and Pandits was frequent. We  
>>could still identify ourselves as a people apart from others. 
>>
>>
>>From the homes we visited it was clear how much they must  have had to struggle 
>
>
>>to settle themselves in a place like Jammu. It had taken  years for some to 
>>finally resolve and make permanent houses in Jammu. For a  long while they felt 
>
>
>>that their stay in Jammu was temporary, hoping to return  very soon. Some said 

>>that they can still not relate to these houses as their  own, and that whenever 
>
>
>>they dream of home they can only visualize their houses  in Kashmir. 
>>
>>
>>I realized the difference between migrating for better  opportunities like many 
>
>
>>of us do and being forced by circumstances to migrate  from home and having no 

>>place to return to. I realized that Pandit migration  was a tragic event for 
>>Kashmiri community as a whole because they took with  them so much that was us. 
>
>
>>It was especially tragic for the Pandits who feel so vulnerable  as a community 
>
>
>>away from home. 
>>
>>
>>From there Anil led us to the camps for the first time.  Since most of the 
>>participants for our workshop had come from the Porkhu camp  we went there to 
>>meet up with the people. I must confess that my idea of Pandit  camps while in 

>>Srinagar was that these must be decent flats as befit the  so-called 'pampered' 
>
>
>>community. To my shock the camp can be described no better  than a slum. Pandit 
>
>
>>camps in Jammu are shanty barracks made of plywood or  single brick walls. In 
>>the barracks each family has been allotted a room or if  the family is really 
>>large two rooms at the most. The lanes between the  barracks are narrow and 
>>lined by deep open drains. The residents have  constructed toilets and small 
>>kitchens and walls around the space on their own.  Once inside, we felt very 
>>hot. Three children who were sleeping in the room  where shifted to one side to 
>
>
>>make room for the seven men who had visited the  house. The immediate feeling 
>>that came to our mind was that this was no place  to live for ten days and these 
>>
>>
>>people had managed to live here for more than  thirteen years. Yet we were 
>>treated very hospitably, as we would be in Kashmir.  Again we realized that 
>>Kashmiri culture was being lived with a vengeance even  in terms of the food 
>>they continue to consume like Namkeen Chai and traditional  Kashmiri bread 
>>(chochwor!) We met up with most of the members who had visited  Kashmir. Some of 
>>
>>
>>the members in the camp had to give serious explanation for  having participated 
>>
>>
>>in the workshop at Gulmarg and had been blamed of having  made a compromise with 
>>
>>
>>Kashmiri Muslims. We had to assure them once again that  there was no hidden 
>>agenda and that none of the known political organizations  had anything to do 
>>with our work. We decided to visit the camp once again on  the next day in order 
>>
>>
>>to hear from more people and also to share the idea of  reconciliation with 
>>them. 
>>
>>
>>To our surprise more people turned up for the meeting than  we were prepared to 
>
>
>>face. We expected not more than fifteen to twenty people in  the meeting. But 
>>the hall meant for marriages and other functions began to fill  until we had 
>>more than hundred people many of whom did not understand why we  were there. 
>>Some of the people were charged up due to the election campaigns  and the offer 
>
>
>>made by the central government to give rupees seven-lakh  assistance for Pandits 
>>
>>
>>who chose to return to the valley. One of the elderly  persons emphasized that 

>>they did not want this package because they saw it more  as an insult added to 

>>the injury. He said that the problem of Kashmiri Pandits  was not about money, 

>>but about insecurity and how they can redeem the way of  life that was lost. 
>>“Would they be able to return the security we felt in  living among our own 
>>people and how would they ensure that now, with the  changes that our people 
>>have undergone by living away from each other?” 
>>
>>
>>It was clear that some of the people in the camp were  mistaking us for the 
>>representatives of some political party or the central  government. After 
>>hearing to some angry expressions some of our hosts thought  that we must be 
>>asked why we have come to the camps in the first place. We  began by explaining 
>
>
>>that we did not represent any official initiatives for  rehabilitation of 
>>Kashmiri Pandits and that we have just come as concerned  individuals who are 
>>not happy with the situation as it exists. “We have no  offers to make because 

>>have nothing to offer except a patient hearing. In a  sense we feel guilty for 

>>not having done enough to stop the migration when it  took place and also for 
>>not having been in touch for the last thirteen years.  It is partly to absolve 

>>ourselves of that guilt that we have come. We have also  come to hear from your 
>
>
>>experiences and to observe how you people are living  away from home and what 
>>you have to say.” 
>>
>>
>>This brief introduction changed the tone of the meeting and  then on almost all 
>
>
>>the members individually began to share their experiences.  Some laid emphasis 

>>on the unique brotherhood that existed among Kashmiri  Muslims and Pandits and 

>>how they longed for its return, while others expressed  the pain of living for 

>>thirteen long years away from Kashmir. While the elderly  were very vivid about 
>
>
>>their memories of Kashmir and their desire “to at least  die in Kashmir”, the 
>>younger ones were bitter about the state of helplessness  and feared whether 
>>their future would be safe if they were to choose to return.  Some of the 
>>members related the number of times Kashmiri Pandits have had to  migrate from 

>>Kashmir and how every time after the peace was restored they  returned to their 
>
>
>>homeland. They also said that if they were to return this  time, they would want 
>>
>>
>>the surity that they do not have to migrate yet again. 
>>
>>
>>Some of the younger members were very bitter about the  circumstances that led 

>>them to leave Kashmir and said that under no  circumstances are they willing to 
>
>
>>forget how some of their people were tortured  and killed. We tried to explain 

>>that to reconcile did not mean that one has to  forget and we did not expect 
>>them to forget what they had experienced. Asking  one to forget would amount to 
>
>
>>disrespecting their pain and suffering. We only  feel that hate should not be 
>>the motive for our actions and that we must forgive  without forgetting. 
>>
>>
>>One of the members explained how the state was maintaining  the camps in bad 
>>repair so as to win the sympathy of the foreigners and  visitors to the camps as 
>>
>>
>>a means of propaganda to impress upon them their own  version of the conflict in 
>>
>>
>>Kashmir. He explained that they felt like animals  kept in a zoo, displayed 
>>whenever the need was felt. The state according to  them could do better and at 
>
>
>>least afford to provide reasonable conditions of  living for the migrants. The 

>>dilapidated condition of the camps was a  deliberate state policy. 
>>
>>
>>Almost all the people appreciated our effort and felt that  it was in some ways 
>
>
>>different from all the other efforts that are being made  for their return and 

>>rehabilitation. They also felt that our efforts were in  the least sincere and 

>>thus need to be expanded. Many emphasized that the  greater part of the work is 
>
>
>>required in Kashmir, as they being a minority do  not pose a big problem. It is 
>
>
>>only when certain receptiveness is created among  the majority community in 
>>Kashmir that the return of Pandits can be made  possible. 
>>
>>
>>There was a difference of opinion whether they should return  to their own 
>>respective villages or a separate enclave should be created to  rehabilitate 
>>them in the valley. For some the texture of the villages over the  years had 
>>changed so drastically that it was no longer possible for them to  feel safe in 
>
>
>>their old homes. So though the interaction between the members of  the two 
>>communities should get restored, but for their safety they must be  settled in 

>>an all Pandit habitation. Some felt that this arrangement would not  be healthy, 
>>
>>
>>as it would not help restore old relationship and increase  suspicion and 
>>segregation. 
>>
>>
>>The meeting lasted well over five hours into the night and  at last when most 
>>people had spoken we sought permission to leave. But the  people would not let 

>>us go and took us back to their homes where more rounds of  tea and informal 
>>conversation resumed. We had to leave finally because of an  earlier commitment 
>
>
>>to dine with one of our Pandit hosts living outside the  camp. The conversations 
>>
>>
>>at the dinners during our visit, which lasted well past  midnight, were in my 
>>opinion, most fruitful. They operated in a language that  can only be possible 

>>with the members of ones own community. There was endless  joking and laughing! 
>
>
>>
>>
>>To sum it all, I think what we encountered in Jammu was  beyond our 
>>expectations, a tremendous and deep felt desire to restore the  broken 
>>relationships and the way of life that has been lost. People are  cautiously, 
>>willing to explore ... because the stake is worth every bit of  effort.
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>_________________________________________
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>
>
>      
>_________________________________________
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