[Reader-list] More Kashmir comes out....

TaraPrakash taraprakash at gmail.com
Fri Aug 13 10:58:16 IST 2010 

Without doubting your words, I would like to add that what you didn't hear 
was not necessarily not said.

If I remember correctly, last year on this list there was another such 
debate in the backdrop of an NDTV program. Somebody pointed at the sectarian 
nature of some present in the audience.  I don't remember which slogan was 
mentioned to justify this claim. Your response was similar: that you were 
present in the studio and nothing of that sort was said. It was in fact 
Sonia Jabbar who confirmed that she heard someone in the audience say such a 
thing.

The point is that we don't always hear everything that is said in our 
vicinity.

Besides, it doesn't really matter what did 300 people in Jantar Mantar did 
or say. Or what 3 out of those 300 did. There so many more Indians who were 
not there in Jantar Mantar and there are so many more Kashmiris who are not 
out on the streets pelting stones. Some kids daring the Indian states, 
demanding freedom, without even knowing what it means or understanding 
responsibilities that come with freedom, should not prevail. Cooler heads 
should. The solution is not in showing passion, it's in talking. Good 
governance can still take care of the unrest. Some times even that is not 
required, take the example of Punjab.

Indians have very well understood the misplaced importance given to freedom. 
It's a hollow romantic "sweet nothing" concept, the reality of which we face 
when we achieve it. Some times status quo is preferrable to any change. A 
lot of Iraqis who could give anything to get rid of Saddam Hussein's regime 
now think about Saddam's time as golden age. Kashmiris should have freedom 
to choose which pit they want to fall in, but the reality is that they won't 
be allowed to in the near future. A free Kashmir, sadly, is in no body's 
interest.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <shuddha at sarai.net>
To: <reader-list-bounces at sarai.net>; "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>; 
"Aditya Raj Kaul" <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>; <kamalhak at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] More Kashmir comes out....


> Dear all,
> I was present during the demonstration on Saturday evening, at which some 
> of
> the people from RIK were also present. I heard what was said and I know 
> what
> was not said.
> The Nara-e-Tadbir, Allah-0-Akbar slogan was raised, and I have written 
> about
> this in my earlier post.
> On one occasion, one individual in the section of the crowd opposite to 
> where I
> was standing, did say, 'Azaadi ka Matlab Kya, La Illaha-Illallah', he was
> admonished by those around him, for raising a secterian slogan. 
> Repeatedly,
> speaker after speaker said that no 'communal slogans' should be raised. 
> One
> woman got up from the audience, went to the microphone and made a 
> passionate
> appeal not to be distracted by a communal agenda.
> Actually, there was a person sitting quite close to where I stood, who 
> said in
> a distinctly Eastern UP/ Bihar accent, slightly sheepishly, Hindustan ki 
> Janata
> Kashmir ki Azaadi ki Larai ke Saath hai. No one responded to him, just as 
> no one
> had responded the slogan - of - 'Azaadi ka Matlab Kya, La 
> Illaha-Illallah'.
> There were no references to Nizam e Mustafa, Azaadi Baraye Islam. No one 
> said
> 'Kashmir mein rehna hai to Alah-O-Akbar kahna hoga'. My hearing is not
> impaired, if any one has said it out aloud, i would have heard it. There 
> were
> repeated sloganeering of 'Pandit , Muslim, Sikh, Sare Kashmiri ek hain'.
> I want to point all this out in some detail, to show that the gathering 
> did not
> raise slogans that called for foisting an Islamist state in Kashmir, as is 
> being
> alleged by Kamal Hak. To equate the demand for Azaadi automatically with 
> the
> demand for an Islamist state is a gross oversimplification. It also ends 
> up
> providing the hard-core islamists in the 'Azaadi' camp with a legitimation 
> that
> we should not assume they automatically have. It is no surprise that this 
> is
> gifted to them by their opposite numbers, a communalized, prejudiced core,
> within the 'Indian Nationalist' flank , that vitiates the atmosphere .
> The following day's, Sunday's protest, at Jantar Mantar, was even more
> restrained. From what I gather from people who were there, there was not 
> even
> the 'Allah o Akbar' slogan. Yes, the RIK and allied protestors who had 
> come
> again on Sunday, were loud, and noisy, yes, apparently several of them 
> used
> objectionable and unparliamentary language. If there was an aggressive use 
> of
> words, I know where it would have come from.
> best
>
> Shuddha
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 07:24:46 +0000 kamalhak at gmail.com wrote
>
>> Hum kya chahtey azadi- azadi ka matlab kya- La-illaha-illalaha.
>>
>> Naraiy tadbir- Allah-O-Akbar
>>
>> Aditya, Rashneek and the likes of their ilk are naïve to misrepresent the
>> above slogans as islamist. They also behave as fascists while talking 
>> about
>> Kashmiri  aspirations of Nizame-Mustafa being the principal reason behind
>> their exile.
>>
>> It is the reflection of their communal mind set that makes them to see 
>> wolf
>> in slogans like, Kashmir mein rehna hai to Alah-O-Akbar kahna hoga.
>>
>> Above all it is their immaturity to talk about unfashionable concepts 
>> like
>> Bharat Mata ki jai.
>> Aditya and Rashneek, you are sleeping like Rip Van Winkle and have been 
>> left
>> far behind the times.
>> Rashneek, I believe poetry is your passion. You must understand Kabir's, 
>> 'tum
>> kahtey ho kagaz dekhi- main kahta hoon ankhan dekhi' no longer holds true 
>> in
>> contemporary India. There are two types of people who abound this nation, 
>> if
>> you still this country to be one, now.
>> One half is like Dhritrashtra who was blind by providence; the other half 
>> is
>> like Ghandari, who chose to be blind by choice. You can't make either to 
>> see.
>> So stop being like kids, capture the mindset of people and join the 
>> crowd.
>> You will soon become a hero.
>>
>> Kamal Hak
>> Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "shuddha at sarai.net" <shuddha at sarai.net>
>> Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net
>> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:02:35
>> To: sarai list<reader-list at sarai.net>; Aditya Raj
>> Kaul<kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] More Kashmir comes out....
>>
>> Aditya,
>>
>> The list does not take allegations of 'terrorism' lightly. The person you 
>> are
>> talking about happens to be a friend of mine, and I would again ask you 
>> to
>> refrain from making allegations that you cannot prove, and that have been
>> thrown out in court, not on 'technicalities'. The absence of evidence, 
>> and
>> the
>> manufacture of false evidence is not a 'technicality'.
>>
>> I was present on Saturday evening at Jantar Mantar, as were you, and as 
>> were
>> several others, none of whom are 'Islamist Propagandists'. There may have
>> been
>> some Islamists in the gathering, but by no means does that mean that the
>> majority of those present were in any way Islamist.
>>
>> My unambiguous positions against 'Islamism' are public, and well known,
>> especially to Islamists. I am sure there were many others who were 
>> present at
>> Jantar Mantar who, like me, cannot by any stretch of imagination be 
>> called
>> 'Islamist'.
>>
>> Also, calling reports such as those published in the Times of India,
>> Hindustan
>> Times, Economic Times and the Outlook, written by Sanjay Kak, Hilal Mir,
>> Basharat Peer and Suveer Kaul 'planted' only exposes you to the 
>> possibility
>> of
>> being exposed for sheer humbuggery, and makes you liable to the charge of
>> libel. Are you suggesting that now the Indian mainstream media is 
>> nowadays
>> being influenced by stories planted by the IB that endorse an 
>> 'Anti-State'
>> line. Is the Intelligence Bureau, and its peers (the only ones in a 
>> position
>> to
>> 'plant' stories in the media) now working hand in glove with separatists 
>> in
>> Kashmir. So, is the sentiment for azaadi now a plaything in the hands of 
>> the
>> Indian intelligence apparatus. Let's take this thought to its logical
>> conclusion. If the Indian intelligence agencies are backing Kashmiri
>> separatists and all those who argue for self determination in Kashmir, 
>> then
>> logically, Indian nationalists ought to be cozying up to the Pakistani 
>> ISI.
>> What does that make the Roots in Kashmir and the Panun Kashmir network - 
>> an
>> objective ally of the Pakistani ISI?
>>
>> If that is so, it is news to me, and ought to be, to everyone in the 
>> whole
>> wide
>> world.
>>
>> Please refrain from dissimulation and disinformation,
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Shuddha
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:59:12 +0530 Aditya Raj Kaul 
>> <kauladityaraj at gmail.com>
>> wrote
>>
>> > The tragic stories which reflect reality are rarely to be found in 
>> > media.
>> >
>> > We just see planted articles in The Times of India and Hindustan Times;
>> > quite frequent in last few days. Clearly, they are successful in 
>> > spreading
>> > propaganda.
>> >
>> > Islamic Propagandists led my well known 'terrorist' (out on technical
>> > grounds) had taken over Jantar Mantar with communal sloganeering. If 
>> > this
>> > can happen in New Delhi, we know how the remaining 3000 Pandits back in
>> > Kashmir would be living in fear psychosis after separatist threatening.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Aditya Raj Kaul
>> >
>> > India Editor
>> > The Indian, Australia
>> >
>> > Web: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/
>> >
>> > 2010/8/9 Sanjay Kak <kaksanjay at gmail.com>
>> >
>> > > This news item is clearly a scoop, a breaking story that neither the 
>> > > the
>> > > hundred strong "Indian" press corps in Srinagar, nor the internet 
>> > > with
>> > > its
>> > > dozens of egroups, have been able to get at...
>> > > Impressive, or suspect...
>> > > "Amar Ujala" is clearly headed for the big time in the news story
>> > > business.
>> > > Best
>> > > Sanjay
>> > >
>> > > 2010/8/9 rashneek kher <rashneek at gmail.com>
>> > >
>> > > > *Under Separatist Threatening Kashmiri Pandits leave the valley* -
>> > > > http://www.amarujal
>> > > > a.com/city/ CityDetail.
>> > > > aspx?id=1063&cid=143<
>> > > > http://www.amarujala.com/city/CityDetail.aspx?id=1063&cid=143>
>> > > >
>> > > >  *दहशत में छह पंडित
> परिवारों
>> ने किया पलायन*
>> > > >
>> > > >  Story Update : Monday, August 09, 2010    12:47 AM
>> > > >
>> > > > श्रीनगर। घाटी में
>> > > > उपद्रवियों ने
>> अल्पसंख्यकों
>> > > > को निशाना बनाना शुरू कर
>> दिया
>> > > > है। अल्पसंख्यकों के घरों
>> > > > में पथराव की घटनाओं में भी
>> > > > इजाफा हुआ है। नतीजतन
>> > > > घाटी से छह कश्मीरी पंडित
>> परिवारों ने पलायन कर लिया है।
>> हब्बाकदल और डाउन
>> > > > टाउन
>> > > > से ताल्लुक रखने वाले इन
>> > > > परिवारों ने १९९० में पलायन
>> > > > नहीं किया था। उपद्रवी
>> > > > सिख
>> > > > समुदाय को भी भारत विरोधी
>> प्रदर्शनों में शामिल होने के
>> लिए मजबूर कर रहे
>> > > हैं।
>> > > > गुरुद्वारों में धमकी भरे
>> > > > पत्र फेंके जा रहे हैं।
>> इनमें
>> > > > लिखा गया है कि भारत
>> > > > विरोधी प्रदर्शनों में
>> > > > शामिल नहीं हुए तो घाटी
>> छोड़नी
>> > > > पड़ेगी। बाहरी राज्यों
>> > > > से
>> > > > श्रीनगर में कारोबार करने
>> वालों को भी घाटी छोड़ने की
>> धमकी दी गई है।
>> > > > अल्पसंख्यकों के एक
>> शिष्टमंडल ने कट्टरपंथी
>> अलगाववादी नेता सैयद अली शाह
>> > > > गिलानी
>> > > > से भी मुलाकात की है।
>> > > > आमीरा कदल गुरुद्वारा
>> > > > प्रबंधक कमेटी के अध्यक्ष
>> > > > सरदार केएन सिंह का कहना है
>> > > कि
>> > > > असामाजिक तत्वों ने त्राल,
>> औलची बाग सहित मेहजूर नगर
>> गुरुद्वारों में यह
>> > > गुप्त
>> > > > पत्र फेंके हैं। इन पत्रों
>> को जल्द ही सरकार को सौंप दिया
>> जाएगा। घाटी में
>> > > १८२
>> > > > अलग-अलग जगहों पर रहने वाले
>> > > > ६६२ कश्मीरी पंडित
> परिवारों
>> > > > के २८४५ सदस्य दहशत
>> > > > भरे
>> > > > माहौल में रह रहे हैं। आल
>> > > > माइग्रेंट कोआर्डिनेशन
>> कमेटी
>> > > > के अध्यक्ष विनोद कौल
>> > > > का
>> > > > कहना है कि पलायन करने वाले
>> परिवार दहशत के माहौल में रह
>> रहे थे। डा.
>> > > > अग्निशेखर
>> > > > का भी कहना है कि पंडितों की
>> वापसी का दावा करने वाली सरकार
>> को इस घटना से
>> > > सबक
>> > > > सीखना होगा। राजस्व मंत्री
>> रमन भल्ला ने कहा कि उन्हें
> अभी
>> तक कोई सूचना
>> > > नहीं
>> > > > मिली है।
>> > > >  *दहशत में छह पंडित
> परिवारों
>> ने किया पलायन*
>> > > >
>> > > >  Story Update : Monday, August 09, 2010    12:47 AM
>> > > >
>> > > > श्रीनगर। घाटी में
>> > > > उपद्रवियों ने
>> अल्पसंख्यकों
>> > > > को निशाना बनाना शुरू कर
>> दिया
>> > > > है। अल्पसंख्यकों के घरों
>> > > > में पथराव की घटनाओं में भी
>> > > > इजाफा हुआ है। नतीजतन
>> > > > घाटी से छह कश्मीरी पंडित
>> परिवारों ने पलायन कर लिया है।
>> हब्बाकदल और डाउन
>> > > > टाउन
>> > > > से ताल्लुक रखने वाले इन
>> > > > परिवारों ने १९९० में पलायन
>> > > > नहीं किया था। उपद्रवी
>> > > > सिख
>> > > > समुदाय को भी भारत विरोधी
>> प्रदर्शनों में शामिल होने के
>> लिए मजबूर कर रहे
>> > > हैं।
>> > > > गुरुद्वारों में धमकी भरे
>> > > > पत्र फेंके जा रहे हैं।
>> इनमें
>> > > > लिखा गया है कि भारत
>> > > > विरोधी प्रदर्शनों में
>> > > > शामिल नहीं हुए तो घाटी
>> छोड़नी
>> > > > पड़ेगी। बाहरी राज्यों
>> > > > से
>> > > > श्रीनगर में कारोबार करने
>> वालों को भी घाटी छोड़ने की
>> धमकी दी गई है।
>> > > > अल्पसंख्यकों के एक
>> शिष्टमंडल ने कट्टरपंथी
>> अलगाववादी नेता सैयद अली शाह
>> > > > गिलानी
>> > > > से भी मुलाकात की है।
>> > > > आमीरा कदल गुरुद्वारा
>> > > > प्रबंधक कमेटी के अध्यक्ष
>> > > > सरदार केएन सिंह का कहना है
>> > > कि
>> > > > असामाजिक तत्वों ने त्राल,
>> औलची बाग सहित मेहजूर नगर
>> गुरुद्वारों में यह
>> > > गुप्त
>> > > > पत्र फेंके हैं। इन पत्रों
>> को जल्द ही सरकार को सौंप दिया
>> जाएगा। घाटी में
>> > > १८२
>> > > > अलग-अलग जगहों पर रहने वाले
>> > > > ६६२ कश्मीरी पंडित
> परिवारों
>> > > > के २८४५ सदस्य दहशत
>> > > > भरे
>> > > > माहौल में रह रहे हैं। आल
>> > > > माइग्रेंट कोआर्डिनेशन
>> कमेटी
>> > > > के अध्यक्ष विनोद कौल
>> > > > का
>> > > > कहना है कि पलायन करने वाले
>> परिवार दहशत के माहौल में रह
>> रहे थे। डा.
>> > > > अग्निशेखर
>> > > > का भी कहना है कि पंडितों की
>> वापसी का दावा करने वाली सरकार
>> को इस घटना से
>> > > सबक
>> > > > सीखना होगा। राजस्व मंत्री
>> रमन भल्ला ने कहा कि उन्हें
> अभी
>> तक कोई सूचना
>> > > नहीं
>> > > > मिली है।
>> > > >
>> > > > best regards
>> > > >
>> > > > -
>> > > >
>> > > > Rashneek Kher
>> > > > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
>> > > > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com
>> > > > _________________________________________
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>> > > _________________________________________
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>> > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
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>> > _________________________________________
>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
>> > subscribe
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>>
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
>> subscribe
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>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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>
>
> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with 
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