[Reader-list] The Deception of the Indian Liberal Discourse on Kashmir

[Kshmendra Kaul]

Dear Anupam
 
I have desisted from interacting with you after, in the last interaction between us, you advised me about yourself that "As for my moral and ethical courage, such things do not apply to me."
 
Morality is a very personal thing but 'ethics' I value and without 'ethics' there cannot ever be a meaningful interaction.
 
I might have withdrawn but I do not hold any grudge (inspite of one particularly abusive mail from you). That aside, Kashmir is too dear to me and on that I will interact with anyone. 
 
It appears you perhaps have not followed the thread and perhaps did not read all of my mail and instead have zeroed in only on the invectives I used. I could be wrong.
 
Each one of those invectives was a qualifying comment for an explanation that either preceded or succeeded it.
 
(The amusement at observing possible limits of idiocies bore reference to Mani's obvious lack of much knowledge about Kashmir or the 'separatist movement' there and his insistence on persisting with the corporate/business interests angle which he first introduced with "the basic problems are due to unbridled capitalism and neoliberalism)
 
So let me re-present the relevant part of my earlier mail so that the invectives have a connection and add (at the end) the conversation pieces where it all started from.
 
START
Use your brains. If 'corporate interests' had any significant role in the Kashmir imbroglio, would benefiting from 'corporates' be better served by separation from India or being a part of India? Would an 'independent' Kashmir or Kashmir integrated into (a near bankrupt) Pakistan provide more from 'corporate interests' or do Indian Corporates have deeper pockets for doling out money?
 
I might be in total disagreement with the 'movement' in Kashmir for separation from India but I would be a fool and anyone would be a fool not to recognise the foundations of those political aspirations as being similar to what led to the 1947 partition.  And you are being a fool Mani.
END
 
I remember what was perhaps the first conversation with you, where you mentioned having attended a meet in Jammu and had met Artistes/Journalists (if I remember correctly) from Kashmir. Do you carry the impression that the 'separatist movement' in Kashmir and the hurts and dissatisfactions have any connection with or are subservient to corporate/business interests?  
 
(RE: 'educating' anyone) "Kashmiriyat" has not been on the menu here and has been increasingly questioned as being a false construct of recent origins. If there are questions about Kashmir, I will certainly try to give my perspectives if I can. 
 
Kshmendra

--- On Wed, 8/18/10, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:


From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 11:31 AM


Dear Kshmendra, 

We perhaps do not know anything about Kashmir or Kashmiriyat. Why dont you educate us? I want to understand your retorts as you stated in your previous mails, when Mani raised the issue: 

"use your brains"

"are you being a fool Mani"

 "In my last mail I had written that I should not be wasting my time on you but you are providing amusement. It is interesting to see to what limits idiocies will be mouthed."

apart from these statements, you have countered any of the claims made by Mani. I am speaking as an observer, as these mails come to my inbox. Yes, I have a choice of not subscribing this list, but i chose to observe and participate. So educate us first. 

Thanks 

Anupam


On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Mani
 
You are a typical example from such people who's worldview is restricted to interpreting everything around them through the dogma that they subscribe to. In this you are no better than the worst examples of religious fundamentalists/extremists.
 
Use your brains.
 
If 'corporate interests' had any significant role in the Kashmir imbroglio, would benefiting from 'corporates' be better served by separation from India or being a part of India? Would an 'independent' Kashmir or Kashmir integrated into (a near bankrupt) Pakistan provide more from 'corporate interests' or do Indian Corporates have deeper pockets for doling out money?
 
I might be in total disagreement with the 'movement' in Kashmir for separation from India but I would be a fool and anyone would be a fool not to recognise the foundations of those political aspirations as being similar to what led to the 1947 partition.  
 
And you are being a fool Mani.
 
You asked " is the whole of J&K burning or is it just a few locations?" In the answer to that question lies the dismissal of your 'corporate interests' theory. You obviously know very little about J&K
 
What I mentioned as " the foundations of those political aspirations as being similar to what led to the 1947 partition", are primarily confined to Kashmir Valley and that is why only Kashmir Valley is burning.
 
In my last mail I had written that I should not be wasting my time on you but you are providing amusement. It is interesting to see to what limits idiocies will be mouthed.
 
Kshmendra 

 
 
From: A. Mani <a.mani.cms at gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 11:16 PM




What I meant to say was that the same old Pakistani and other
interests in Kashmir have become integrated /diluted with corporate
interests. The funding sources of the Hurriyat include a wide spectrum
of corporates and not necessarily from abroad. You should be knowing
at least some of the links. Even real estate developers in Jammu pay
them.

J&K has not escaped the liberalisation policies of successive Central
Govts since the 90s, though Government spending (or promised to) in
the state has been relatively more (according to official statistics)
or rather has been forced to. There is plenty of unemployment in the
capital itself for enough unrest.

If you think that religious fundamentalism and Pakistan are the main
causes... then it is probably not so... is the whole of J&K burning or
is it just a few locations? There is plenty of monetary profit in the
politics industry  for all the right-wing parties involved. Nowadays
these people think in clear investment-return terms. All this of
course means that the real material concerns of the majority may never
be addressed.

You  should think more before jumping to conclusions.


Best

A. Mani


Kshmendra Kaul kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com 
Mon Aug 16 13:50:00 IST 2010 

Dear Mani
 
No State can provide a "classless secular democratic society". State is the people and people are nowhere automatically inclined towards running such a State. At best they can strive. There is no example of such a State that has simultaneously or even in exclusion (without abberations) any one  of the 3 elements of 'classless'; 'secular'; 'democratic'.
 
Whatever might be the other arguments for and against a 'Separate State of Kashmir' your analysis of the current problems and their genesis is quite ridiculous.
 
Kshmendra 

 
From: A. Mani <a.mani.cms at gmail.com>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 6:07 AM
 
In Kashmir and other parts of the country, the basic problems are due
to unbridled capitalism and neoliberalism.
Trying to hide these problems with demands for a separate state and
countermeasures does suit those in power at the centre.

But if a separate state can grant a classless secular democratic
society with a 'truly socialist division of labour', then it may be
sensible. Otherwise these separatist movements will perpetuate a cruel
joke on the people. Their agenda does seem to be very lacking and all
these may be just a game to further big business interests (who do not
really care about nationalist boundaries).


Best

A. Mani