[Reader-list] Interview with Aasiya Andrabi(by Murtaza Shibli)

[rashneek kher]

Dear All,

This was sent to me by an ex member of Sarai-Alok Aima who also seems to
have been unsubscribed from SARAI as does Kamal Hak.
I am not questioning the decision of the moderators to unsubscribe them(ie
if they have been unsubscribed or if it is a technical glitch again),after
all the right to free speech can not be unbridbled and cannot be abused.All
rights come with responsibilities as is the right to expression.I am glad
that in a way the moderators thought it appropriate to show them the door or
"face the music" as Jeebesh called it.Can I please know if they have been
unsubscribed or is it a techinical glitch.
Everyone irrespective of his religion,sex,ideology should face the music if
he/she transgresses the spirit of the right.
Could the moderators be so kind as to let me know the do's and dont's so
that I too may not face the music.


  Dear Rashneek - Please forward this mail to Sarai Reader List since I have
been unsubscribed from it. I asked Monica Nirula the reason for
unsubscribing me but received no response. Thanks. .......... aalok aima

http://www.kashmiraffairs.org/shibli%20interview%20aasiya%20andrabi.html

*Q: What is your assessment of the current situation?
*A: It is full of confusion. There are bundles and bundles of confusion in
here and it is because of the role of Pakistan and the role of so-called
Kashmiri leadership.

*Q: What went wrong?
*A: The Kashmiri struggle couldn’t remain indigenous. We became pawns in the
hands of agencies whether ISI or others. The Kashmiri leadership shouldn’t
have totally relied on Pakistan. And after 9/11 when America changed its
policy towards the whole of the Muslim Ummah, Pakistan has come under
tremendous pressure and it seems that they can’t with stand it. This has led
to the same situation in Kashmir as was in 1971 after Pakistan lost its war
with India.
*
**Q: So what is the problem?
*A: The problem is with Pakistani agencies. They want people to be on their
pay role and anyone who resists, they try their best to curtail their
influence. I am a staunch Pakistani supporter but Pakistani media would
never give me any coverage as I am not on their agency pay roll and I refuse
to listen to their directions.

*Q: So you think Pakistani agencies are the reason that Kashmiri leadership
has failed?
*A: Pakistani government has betrayed us a lot, not only today but in 1965
as well and long before also.

*Q: If this is the case, then why are you supporting Pakistan?
*A: The government is betraying us, but we support the ideology of Pakistan.
Our leadership is to be blamed as well for falling into the trap.

*Q: So what should the Kashmiri leadership do? Oppose India, oppose Pakistan
or oppose both?
*A: To oppose India is obvious as we have never been a part of India. As far
as the Pakistani government and its policies are concerned, we have to
oppose them and their policies and we should do it openly. We should show
them that Kashmiris have a stand on this issue and that it is our problem.
We should also let them know that Pakistan is no more our master and they
can’t dictate us.  They should know that we want to fulfil our dream of
Pakistan which includes Kashmir in it as well that has been denied since
1947.

*Q: Why should we go with Pakistan rather than be independent of sorts?
*A: It is actually the ideology behind Pakistan that is why we want to go
with Pakistan.

*Q: As a Kashmiri I don’t want to be held hostage to some ideology framed by
a bunch of people some decades ago.
*A: It is not the ideology framed by imperialists or any other people. It is
the ideology that there are two nations - Hindus and Muslims and I support
that.

*Q: That two nation theory was destroyed by the Pakistani leaders themselves
with the creation of Bangladesh.
*A: That doesn’t mean it is a rejected theory. It is what Allah says in the
holy Quran. That is why I am a supporter of Pakistan, not because of the
Pakistani government. I want to merge Kashmir with Pakistan.

*Q: But what if people of Kashmir don’t want to be part of Pakistan?
*A: As far as I know the Kashmiri people are Pakistanis by heart, but at
this stage they have just been shocked by the attitude of the Pakistani
government towards us and are angry.

*Q: But this shock might turn into anger and they could refuse to be part of
Pakistan anymore?
*A: If they refuse to be part of Pakistan then there is a choice of
independent Kashmir.

*Q: Will you support Independent Kashmir if the Kashmiri people chose to be
so?
*A: Yes I will have to respect the wishes of the people and support it. But
I don’t think that at this stage the majority of the Kashmiri people would
like to be independent. My first choice would be to be part of Pakistan. But
now that Pakistan has betrayed us, if there would be a choice between
independent Kashmir and India, I will definitely support Independent
Kashmir.

*Q: If you say that Pakistan has betrayed us both previously and now aren’t
they then our enemies?
*A: Yes the Pakistani government is our enemy at this time but not the
people of Pakistan.

*Q: But it is the Pakistani people who make this government. We can’t
distinguish between the two for our political relief.
*A: One has to distinguish between the government and the people. In Kashmir
we have a pro-Indian Congress government imposed on us as well, but we are
not its supporters or we don’t consider ourselves Indian. Here people are
all up against India.

Pakistani people have always helped Kashmiris in whatever way they could and
once we become part of Pakistan, they will always be there for us.

*Q: There is a general sense of helplessness among the Kashmiri people at
the moment. What is the reason and what do you think is the way out?
*A: There is no doubt that people feel very helpless as they feel no body is
coming forward to their rescue and no body is talking about Kashmir and the
sufferings of Kashmiris. Pakistan’s negative role for the last couple of
years has catalysed this feeling and multiplied the psychological sufferings
of the Kashmiri people. Another reason is that the lack of leadership has
compounded the suffering as well.

Our leadership is corrupt and they are making money at the expense of
Kashmiris’ sufferings. At the present only Syed Ali Geelani is voicing the
sentiments of Kashmiri people and therefore people should support him. The
only way out is  for the Kashmiri people to come forward, otherwise they
will be re-sold as happened at the time of Sheikh Abdullah. People have to
resist the moves of some so called leaders to sell out the sacrifices of
Kashmiri people.

*Q: What is the worst thing about the behaviour of Kashmir leaders?
*A: There are many, but one I find really disgusting; the Indian army is
killing, torturing our youth and raping our women, but these so-called
Kashmiri leaders are enjoying their security.

*Q: You earlier said that Kashmiris are disheartened and sad that no one in
the world is supporting or understanding us. But there was a time that Iran
openly and fully supported the Kashmiri struggle.
*A: Yes Iranians did support us and we are thankful to them for that. But
unfortunately that support could not continue or materialise in the long
term. The reason is that our leadership failed to win over friends as they
did not reach out to the world. They did what they were told to do by the
Pakistani agencies.

Iran is a great nation with historic ties with Kashmir but as of now their
Kashmir policy is diluted and they are silent at the sufferings of their
brothers and sisters in Kashmir.

*Q: I haven’t asked you about the ‘peace process’ going on between India and
Pakistan.
*A: I don’t think we have any objection if there is well meaning peace in
the region or for that matter in the whole world. Peace is the best gift
human beings can offer to fellow human beings. But what India and Pakistan
are doing is depriving Kashmiris of their right to live with dignity in the
name of peace which is not acceptable to us or for that matter any nation or
group of people who are subjugated and want justice.

Therefore, we reject this so-called peace process as it is nothing but the
betrayal of both India and Pakistan of their commitments to the people of
Jammu and Kashmir.

*Q: What do you say about President Musharraf’s proposals on Kashmir**?**
*A: I don’t even want to talk about him let alone his proposals. If you ask
me the person I hate most on the face of this earth… it is General
Musharraf. He is a real dictator. He has dictated the whole Pakistani nation
for the last few years and now he wants to dictate the Kashmiris as well and
impose his will upon us.

*Q: Do you think President Musharraf will be able to influence Kashmiri
leadership?
*A: As far as one part of our leadership is concerned they definitely listen
to his commands.

*Q: And what is the reason for that?
*A: Nothing more than their material interests.

*Q: Are you saying that Pakistan is bribing them with money to subvert or
buy their allegiance and ideology?
*A: Money is one of the important factors in this game. That is why our
leadership is in the hands of Pakistani agencies. I can understand there
could be very many compulsions for Kashmiri leadership living in Kashmir or
in Pakistan to toe the Pakistani line. But what about those Kashmiris living
in the West and claiming to be representing Kashmiri people? They too are
parroting the same words as uttered by General Musharraf. This is a tragedy
that most of the Kashmiri leadership here and abroad are corrupt and receive
money from Pakistani agencies to further their agenda. These people are not
sincere and have no stake in Kashmir and the sufferings of its people. They
are just there to make money and fame. They have no practical role in the
Kashmir problem or its solution. They are enjoying their life and luxuries
that came in the name of Kashmir.

*Q: Can you elaborate a bit more on what you are calling corruption among
the Kashmiri leadership?
*A: The so-called Kashmiri leadership made money from both India and
Pakistan and many times from both at the same time. Money came here for two
purposes. One was to corrupt our leadership which, if they kept for
themselves I wouldn’t mind. However, a massive chunk of money came for
relief of the Kashmiri people, but they didn’t get that and the leaders kept
that for themselves.

When there was no money, our movement was going on very well, but since the
money came we are on a constant decline. I was offered money by the ISI
officials. They tried to corrupt me. However, I refused the money and told
them that they are the people who have corrupted Kashmiris and Kashmiri
leadership. Pakistan absolutely and deliberately corrupted Kashmiri
leadership so that they can dance to their tunes.

In 1998 I went to London and Dr Ayyub Thakur organised a meeting for me. I
saw with my own eyes that women attending the function gave me money and
their ornaments and asked me to take it for the Kashmiri victims. They told
me that they have sent a lot of money to the Kashmiri victims. I was shocked
and surprised to learn that.  Money came in millions to Kashmir and I wonder
where that money is? These leaders have no idea that they are profiting on
the sufferings of the Kashmiri people. *[Aasiya became emotional, and voice
choked and she started crying saying that she knows hundreds of families,
orphans and widows who have nothing to eat or wear].
*
These leaders, I don’t know how they go on foreign tours and wear religious
garb, but they are profiting from the money that was for the relief of
Kashmiri victims. How they dare to do this, I don’t know.

*Q: Previously your organisation has worked with the London based Mercy
Universal to implement relief programmes in Kashmir. What is the current
situation?
*A: I don’t know. Our contacts snapped in 2002 when the government falsely
implicated us that we were funding militancy, though we were running
training centers for widows and orphan girls. After that we have had no
contact with Mercy Universal as we were banned and currently we don’t know
if Mercy Universal is doing anything in Kashmir.

*Q: In the recent by-elections, quite a remarkable number of people voted
and this is for the first time during last 18 years. Don’t you think this as
a failure of the pro-freedom movement?
*A: This is true that voting was different from the past, but I don’t see it
as any failure of the pro-movement sentiments. If you heard interviews of
the people who voted, they all said that they voted for their roads and
local administration which has nothing to do with the status of the Kashmir
problem or its solution.
*
Q: As a women’s group what have you done for the suffering women of Kashmir?
*A: Well it’s not a question of women, it is a question of the suffering of
the whole people. We have very limited resources as we don’t get money from
agencies or Hurriyat Conference. We are taking responsibilities for some
orphans and their education. Many of our members are widows themselves with
children.

>From last year we have embarked on a plan to try to rehabilitate women
involved in flesh trade due to their poverty, but then I was arrested. I
know this is a big issue and we need to address it. These women need
rehabilitation and are compelled by the circumstances.

Those charities who claim to be working for the victims in Kashmir are to be
blamed as they collect huge amount of money but do not send that to Kashmir.
Some where down the line the money gets lost.

*Q: We have so many widows, but we don’t have a tradition of remarrying
them. Isn’t this a problem?
*A: It is a very big problem. In 2000, I called upon all the Muslims of
Kashmir for taking more than one wife and the media asked me whether I will
allow my husband taking a second wife. I will support and insist that my
husband shall go for a second marriage preferably a widow, if and when he is
released from prison.

I talked to my own party members to prepare their own husbands to prepare
them for second marriage. But our culture and family system is such that we
are not able to do that. I think I have failed in this despite putting my
best energy to it. We have strange customs and notions of piety. Our society
respects women who do not remarry which is rubbish, as women have their own
social, physical and emotional needs which can’t be ignored. You ask me how
hard it is to live without a man, as I have the bitterest experience. I have
to endure a mountain of difficulties negotiating with life and small
children while my husband is in prison and it is very very hard.

There is another problem. If some widow marries another man, she has to
leave her children for two reasons, first the new husband won’t take the
children or if at all he is prepared, the former in-laws of the women are
forcing her to abandon her children and they take them.

The woman then chooses not to marry for she will other wise loose her
children. This is such a tragic situation and primarily women suffer out of
this. First she loses her husband and then the society does not support her.
Remarriage is not an option for her as our society is far too underdeveloped
as remarriage of women is not seen as positive or encouraged, and when some
women are brave enough to remarry and start a new life, the new husband is
not willing to take her children. Therefore the women who has braved and
challenged the bad social practice and wanted to get remarried, she looses
her children. Naturally, therefore, she chooses to stay with her children
otherwise the children will have no roof over their head. Our organisation
is looking after few such orphans who lost their fathers to the strife,
either killed by the army or died in an encounter, but when their mothers
were brave enough and remarried, they lost their mother as well, as the new
husband wouldn’t take the children.

I wanted to hire a house for these roaming orphan girls who are going from
house to house. I want to hire a house and put some of these there. Even
people here are afraid of giving money. We opened a bank account, but the
government ceased that account as well, therefore, we are not allowed to
operate.

*Q: You had such an important role to play for the suffering Kashmiri women,
but as you are involved in politics, the government is really tough on you.
*A: I don’t believe that. In the beginning, *Dukhtaran-e-Millat* was not a
political organisation. We came onto the scene challenging India’s imposed
culture not Indian occupation. But we were hounded, arrested and stopped to
carry out peaceful activities.

Just a few years back, we were doing relief work - purely relief work. We
were helping widows trying to rebuild their lives, feeding orphans and we
never publicised it as not to link it with our political work so that no one
can say that we are doing politics at the expense of the sufferings of
widows and orphans. But still we were booked under terrorism. The Indians
blamed our relief work saying that we were financing terrorism. Our
organisation was banned under the Terrorism Act and I was arrested. Thus
hundreds of widows and children we were supporting were left in the lurch.

If feeding orphans and building shattered lives is terrorism, what can you
expect from the Indian state? Where is the space, whether we were making a
political statement or running a relief camp? India sees every Kashmiri as a
challenge and they crush us indiscriminately.

*Q: The recent scandal now known as the sex scandal has rocked the whole of
Kashmir. What do you feel about it?
*A: The whole Indian army and the local police are involved in this
operation and it is part of India’s plan and strategy of counter-insurgency.
India is corrupting our culture and Indian secret agencies are grooming
young girls. Indian political leaders and the army and intelligence officers
are paedophiles who are exploiting Kashmiri girls as young as 14 or 15 years
old. Some of them are lured and others threatened that if they do not go
with the army or intelligence or police officers, their family members will
be killed. There is a very small proportion that is willing to be part of
it, and they too have financial difficulties as they have lost their parents
in the present strife.

*Q: Many times you have classified the present Kashmiri armed struggle as
jehad. But my perception is that in Kashmir innocent people were killed,
kidnapped and tortured in the name of jehad. That is surely not jehad, that
is ‘fasaad’ [anarchy].
*A: I don’t say that is *jehad*. What I said is that the movement against
the Indian occupation is *jehad*. If someone kills, kidnaps or tortures
people, burns houses, causing havoc; that is terrorism not *jehad*.

*Q: What is your opinion about the armed struggle? Do you justify militancy
now?
*A: I have always justified armed resistance movement in Kashmir. India has
left us with no option and there is no future for any politics in Kashmir.

*Q: Why do you say that?
*A: We have seen it since 1947. India has never heeded the political opinion
of Kashmiris. They have always treated us with contempt and they still do.
It is only because of the armed movement that India is still saying Kashmir
is a problem.  Otherwise, our so called leaders have thrown in the towel and
they are making money with both hands from both India and Pakistan.

*Q: Why can’t this movement be inclusive so that Kashmiri Pandits and others
get involved as well?
*A: That can’t be possible. Pandits are happy with India and they are
getting huge economic incentives and why should they like to be part of
Pakistan?

*Q: But do you agree that Pandits or any others have the right to oppose the
Kashmiri movement, and that they have a right to voice their opposition to
the ideas of azaadi and differ from the majority of Kashmiri Muslims?
*A: Of course they have every right to form their own political ideology or
oppose ours. We should have the same right to oppose them.

*Q: But let us assume that tomorrow Kashmir becomes part of Pakistan, what
do you think the Pandits rights’ will be knowing that they opposed it in the
first place?
*A: Listen. They are part and parcel of our society. They will have the same
rights as any other person. There are millions of Hindus in Pakistan and
Pandits will have much better rights than what Indian Muslims are enjoying
at the moment.




-- 
Rashneek Kher
http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com