[Reader-list] Interview with Aasiya Andrabi(by Murtaza Shibli)

[rashneek kher]

Dear Inder,

I dont think I mentioned Aditya's name in my previous mail at all.As far as
I know you arent the moderator,so I didnt expect an answer from you on
expulsion of kamal Hak and Alok Aima.He did receive a one line mail in
subject saying you have been unsubscribed.Now that you belive it must be
technical...please try and find out if it is so.
Anyways I support the decision of unsubscribing people who the moderator
thinks are behaving not in accordance in whatever norms he/she may have in
their mind.As I have mentioned in my mail,.I reiterate that freedom of
speech comes with caveats and if anyone misuses the right then he should
"face the music".
I have nothing to add on to your observations on Asiya.

Thankyou

Rashneek

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Dear Rashneek
>
> about some glitches of your friends on the list.
> Liberal admins have not 'unsubscribed' Aditya Raj kaul from the list
> for spreading misinformation time and again. ( read his bookha nanga
> hindustan comment which he turned upside down ) but i guess he was
> humbly requested to refrain... so this must be technical only,
>
> about the interview:
> it was wonderful to read how the interviewer got the best out of this
> only Woman leader from Kashmir.  Not only she revealed her true mind,
> but she also pointed fingers on other leaders. A brave heart woman
> indeed.
>
> Her pro-Pakistan tilt is nothing new , which is based on two nation
> theory, but her criticism of Pakistani support is very new.   " Yes
> the Pakistani government is our enemy at this time"
>
>  she also feels the pro-independence mood in the valley is
> overwhelming, but somehow she has inherited the 47 legacy in her own
> way and derives her own infrences from it, which i guess would change
> after some time, may be it is chaning, slowly.
> .
> Not surprising if coming years would throw couple of new women
> leaders/activists in the valley,.
>
> That is that, as a woman activist she has indeed taken up this issue
> of 'widows' in the Kashmir. Well, her solution to the problem is
> medievalist, but she questions the society which is hesitant to accept
> her and her issues in a very dignified way. This is not about Muslim
> society only but all.
>
> I guess, only a radical feminist would declare her non-possessive
> nature of her relationship, indeed for the benefit of her suffering
> sisters.
>
> There must be some other changes in Kashmir, some new voices, some new
> adjustments within the world of women, who suffered very badly since
> 1990.
>
> heard any Male leaders ever talking about women's issues ? so she scores
>
> love
> is
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:05 AM, rashneek kher <rashneek at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > This was sent to me by an ex member of Sarai-Alok Aima who also seems to
> > have been unsubscribed from SARAI as does Kamal Hak.
> > I am not questioning the decision of the moderators to unsubscribe
> them(ie
> > if they have been unsubscribed or if it is a technical glitch
> again),after
> > all the right to free speech can not be unbridbled and cannot be
> abused.All
> > rights come with responsibilities as is the right to expression.I am glad
> > that in a way the moderators thought it appropriate to show them the door
> or
> > "face the music" as Jeebesh called it.Can I please know if they have been
> > unsubscribed or is it a techinical glitch.
> > Everyone irrespective of his religion,sex,ideology should face the music
> if
> > he/she transgresses the spirit of the right.
> > Could the moderators be so kind as to let me know the do's and dont's so
> > that I too may not face the music.
> >
> >
> >  Dear Rashneek - Please forward this mail to Sarai Reader List since I
> have
> > been unsubscribed from it. I asked Monica Nirula the reason for
> > unsubscribing me but received no response. Thanks. .......... aalok aima
> >
> > http://www.kashmiraffairs.org/shibli%20interview%20aasiya%20andrabi.html
> >
> > *Q: What is your assessment of the current situation?
> > *A: It is full of confusion. There are bundles and bundles of confusion
> in
> > here and it is because of the role of Pakistan and the role of so-called
> > Kashmiri leadership.
> >
> > *Q: What went wrong?
> > *A: The Kashmiri struggle couldn’t remain indigenous. We became pawns in
> the
> > hands of agencies whether ISI or others. The Kashmiri leadership
> shouldn’t
> > have totally relied on Pakistan. And after 9/11 when America changed its
> > policy towards the whole of the Muslim Ummah, Pakistan has come under
> > tremendous pressure and it seems that they can’t with stand it. This has
> led
> > to the same situation in Kashmir as was in 1971 after Pakistan lost its
> war
> > with India.
> > *
> > **Q: So what is the problem?
> > *A: The problem is with Pakistani agencies. They want people to be on
> their
> > pay role and anyone who resists, they try their best to curtail their
> > influence. I am a staunch Pakistani supporter but Pakistani media would
> > never give me any coverage as I am not on their agency pay roll and I
> refuse
> > to listen to their directions.
> >
> > *Q: So you think Pakistani agencies are the reason that Kashmiri
> leadership
> > has failed?
> > *A: Pakistani government has betrayed us a lot, not only today but in
> 1965
> > as well and long before also.
> >
> > *Q: If this is the case, then why are you supporting Pakistan?
> > *A: The government is betraying us, but we support the ideology of
> Pakistan.
> > Our leadership is to be blamed as well for falling into the trap.
> >
> > *Q: So what should the Kashmiri leadership do? Oppose India, oppose
> Pakistan
> > or oppose both?
> > *A: To oppose India is obvious as we have never been a part of India. As
> far
> > as the Pakistani government and its policies are concerned, we have to
> > oppose them and their policies and we should do it openly. We should show
> > them that Kashmiris have a stand on this issue and that it is our
> problem.
> > We should also let them know that Pakistan is no more our master and they
> > can’t dictate us.  They should know that we want to fulfil our dream of
> > Pakistan which includes Kashmir in it as well that has been denied since
> > 1947.
> >
> > *Q: Why should we go with Pakistan rather than be independent of sorts?
> > *A: It is actually the ideology behind Pakistan that is why we want to go
> > with Pakistan.
> >
> > *Q: As a Kashmiri I don’t want to be held hostage to some ideology framed
> by
> > a bunch of people some decades ago.
> > *A: It is not the ideology framed by imperialists or any other people. It
> is
> > the ideology that there are two nations - Hindus and Muslims and I
> support
> > that.
> >
> > *Q: That two nation theory was destroyed by the Pakistani leaders
> themselves
> > with the creation of Bangladesh.
> > *A: That doesn’t mean it is a rejected theory. It is what Allah says in
> the
> > holy Quran. That is why I am a supporter of Pakistan, not because of the
> > Pakistani government. I want to merge Kashmir with Pakistan.
> >
> > *Q: But what if people of Kashmir don’t want to be part of Pakistan?
> > *A: As far as I know the Kashmiri people are Pakistanis by heart, but at
> > this stage they have just been shocked by the attitude of the Pakistani
> > government towards us and are angry.
> >
> > *Q: But this shock might turn into anger and they could refuse to be part
> of
> > Pakistan anymore?
> > *A: If they refuse to be part of Pakistan then there is a choice of
> > independent Kashmir.
> >
> > *Q: Will you support Independent Kashmir if the Kashmiri people chose to
> be
> > so?
> > *A: Yes I will have to respect the wishes of the people and support it.
> But
> > I don’t think that at this stage the majority of the Kashmiri people
> would
> > like to be independent. My first choice would be to be part of Pakistan.
> But
> > now that Pakistan has betrayed us, if there would be a choice between
> > independent Kashmir and India, I will definitely support Independent
> > Kashmir.
> >
> > *Q: If you say that Pakistan has betrayed us both previously and now
> aren’t
> > they then our enemies?
> > *A: Yes the Pakistani government is our enemy at this time but not the
> > people of Pakistan.
> >
> > *Q: But it is the Pakistani people who make this government. We can’t
> > distinguish between the two for our political relief.
> > *A: One has to distinguish between the government and the people. In
> Kashmir
> > we have a pro-Indian Congress government imposed on us as well, but we
> are
> > not its supporters or we don’t consider ourselves Indian. Here people are
> > all up against India.
> >
> > Pakistani people have always helped Kashmiris in whatever way they could
> and
> > once we become part of Pakistan, they will always be there for us.
> >
> > *Q: There is a general sense of helplessness among the Kashmiri people at
> > the moment. What is the reason and what do you think is the way out?
> > *A: There is no doubt that people feel very helpless as they feel no body
> is
> > coming forward to their rescue and no body is talking about Kashmir and
> the
> > sufferings of Kashmiris. Pakistan’s negative role for the last couple of
> > years has catalysed this feeling and multiplied the psychological
> sufferings
> > of the Kashmiri people. Another reason is that the lack of leadership has
> > compounded the suffering as well.
> >
> > Our leadership is corrupt and they are making money at the expense of
> > Kashmiris’ sufferings. At the present only Syed Ali Geelani is voicing
> the
> > sentiments of Kashmiri people and therefore people should support him.
> The
> > only way out is  for the Kashmiri people to come forward, otherwise they
> > will be re-sold as happened at the time of Sheikh Abdullah. People have
> to
> > resist the moves of some so called leaders to sell out the sacrifices of
> > Kashmiri people.
> >
> > *Q: What is the worst thing about the behaviour of Kashmir leaders?
> > *A: There are many, but one I find really disgusting; the Indian army is
> > killing, torturing our youth and raping our women, but these so-called
> > Kashmiri leaders are enjoying their security.
> >
> > *Q: You earlier said that Kashmiris are disheartened and sad that no one
> in
> > the world is supporting or understanding us. But there was a time that
> Iran
> > openly and fully supported the Kashmiri struggle.
> > *A: Yes Iranians did support us and we are thankful to them for that. But
> > unfortunately that support could not continue or materialise in the long
> > term. The reason is that our leadership failed to win over friends as
> they
> > did not reach out to the world. They did what they were told to do by the
> > Pakistani agencies.
> >
> > Iran is a great nation with historic ties with Kashmir but as of now
> their
> > Kashmir policy is diluted and they are silent at the sufferings of their
> > brothers and sisters in Kashmir.
> >
> > *Q: I haven’t asked you about the ‘peace process’ going on between India
> and
> > Pakistan.
> > *A: I don’t think we have any objection if there is well meaning peace in
> > the region or for that matter in the whole world. Peace is the best gift
> > human beings can offer to fellow human beings. But what India and
> Pakistan
> > are doing is depriving Kashmiris of their right to live with dignity in
> the
> > name of peace which is not acceptable to us or for that matter any nation
> or
> > group of people who are subjugated and want justice.
> >
> > Therefore, we reject this so-called peace process as it is nothing but
> the
> > betrayal of both India and Pakistan of their commitments to the people of
> > Jammu and Kashmir.
> >
> > *Q: What do you say about President Musharraf’s proposals on Kashmir**?**
> > *A: I don’t even want to talk about him let alone his proposals. If you
> ask
> > me the person I hate most on the face of this earth… it is General
> > Musharraf. He is a real dictator. He has dictated the whole Pakistani
> nation
> > for the last few years and now he wants to dictate the Kashmiris as well
> and
> > impose his will upon us.
> >
> > *Q: Do you think President Musharraf will be able to influence Kashmiri
> > leadership?
> > *A: As far as one part of our leadership is concerned they definitely
> listen
> > to his commands.
> >
> > *Q: And what is the reason for that?
> > *A: Nothing more than their material interests.
> >
> > *Q: Are you saying that Pakistan is bribing them with money to subvert or
> > buy their allegiance and ideology?
> > *A: Money is one of the important factors in this game. That is why our
> > leadership is in the hands of Pakistani agencies. I can understand there
> > could be very many compulsions for Kashmiri leadership living in Kashmir
> or
> > in Pakistan to toe the Pakistani line. But what about those Kashmiris
> living
> > in the West and claiming to be representing Kashmiri people? They too are
> > parroting the same words as uttered by General Musharraf. This is a
> tragedy
> > that most of the Kashmiri leadership here and abroad are corrupt and
> receive
> > money from Pakistani agencies to further their agenda. These people are
> not
> > sincere and have no stake in Kashmir and the sufferings of its people.
> They
> > are just there to make money and fame. They have no practical role in the
> > Kashmir problem or its solution. They are enjoying their life and
> luxuries
> > that came in the name of Kashmir.
> >
> > *Q: Can you elaborate a bit more on what you are calling corruption among
> > the Kashmiri leadership?
> > *A: The so-called Kashmiri leadership made money from both India and
> > Pakistan and many times from both at the same time. Money came here for
> two
> > purposes. One was to corrupt our leadership which, if they kept for
> > themselves I wouldn’t mind. However, a massive chunk of money came for
> > relief of the Kashmiri people, but they didn’t get that and the leaders
> kept
> > that for themselves.
> >
> > When there was no money, our movement was going on very well, but since
> the
> > money came we are on a constant decline. I was offered money by the ISI
> > officials. They tried to corrupt me. However, I refused the money and
> told
> > them that they are the people who have corrupted Kashmiris and Kashmiri
> > leadership. Pakistan absolutely and deliberately corrupted Kashmiri
> > leadership so that they can dance to their tunes.
> >
> > In 1998 I went to London and Dr Ayyub Thakur organised a meeting for me.
> I
> > saw with my own eyes that women attending the function gave me money and
> > their ornaments and asked me to take it for the Kashmiri victims. They
> told
> > me that they have sent a lot of money to the Kashmiri victims. I was
> shocked
> > and surprised to learn that.  Money came in millions to Kashmir and I
> wonder
> > where that money is? These leaders have no idea that they are profiting
> on
> > the sufferings of the Kashmiri people. *[Aasiya became emotional, and
> voice
> > choked and she started crying saying that she knows hundreds of families,
> > orphans and widows who have nothing to eat or wear].
> > *
> > These leaders, I don’t know how they go on foreign tours and wear
> religious
> > garb, but they are profiting from the money that was for the relief of
> > Kashmiri victims. How they dare to do this, I don’t know.
> >
> > *Q: Previously your organisation has worked with the London based Mercy
> > Universal to implement relief programmes in Kashmir. What is the current
> > situation?
> > *A: I don’t know. Our contacts snapped in 2002 when the government
> falsely
> > implicated us that we were funding militancy, though we were running
> > training centers for widows and orphan girls. After that we have had no
> > contact with Mercy Universal as we were banned and currently we don’t
> know
> > if Mercy Universal is doing anything in Kashmir.
> >
> > *Q: In the recent by-elections, quite a remarkable number of people voted
> > and this is for the first time during last 18 years. Don’t you think this
> as
> > a failure of the pro-freedom movement?
> > *A: This is true that voting was different from the past, but I don’t see
> it
> > as any failure of the pro-movement sentiments. If you heard interviews of
> > the people who voted, they all said that they voted for their roads and
> > local administration which has nothing to do with the status of the
> Kashmir
> > problem or its solution.
> > *
> > Q: As a women’s group what have you done for the suffering women of
> Kashmir?
> > *A: Well it’s not a question of women, it is a question of the suffering
> of
> > the whole people. We have very limited resources as we don’t get money
> from
> > agencies or Hurriyat Conference. We are taking responsibilities for some
> > orphans and their education. Many of our members are widows themselves
> with
> > children.
> >
> > From last year we have embarked on a plan to try to rehabilitate women
> > involved in flesh trade due to their poverty, but then I was arrested. I
> > know this is a big issue and we need to address it. These women need
> > rehabilitation and are compelled by the circumstances.
> >
> > Those charities who claim to be working for the victims in Kashmir are to
> be
> > blamed as they collect huge amount of money but do not send that to
> Kashmir.
> > Some where down the line the money gets lost.
> >
> > *Q: We have so many widows, but we don’t have a tradition of remarrying
> > them. Isn’t this a problem?
> > *A: It is a very big problem. In 2000, I called upon all the Muslims of
> > Kashmir for taking more than one wife and the media asked me whether I
> will
> > allow my husband taking a second wife. I will support and insist that my
> > husband shall go for a second marriage preferably a widow, if and when he
> is
> > released from prison.
> >
> > I talked to my own party members to prepare their own husbands to prepare
> > them for second marriage. But our culture and family system is such that
> we
> > are not able to do that. I think I have failed in this despite putting my
> > best energy to it. We have strange customs and notions of piety. Our
> society
> > respects women who do not remarry which is rubbish, as women have their
> own
> > social, physical and emotional needs which can’t be ignored. You ask me
> how
> > hard it is to live without a man, as I have the bitterest experience. I
> have
> > to endure a mountain of difficulties negotiating with life and small
> > children while my husband is in prison and it is very very hard.
> >
> > There is another problem. If some widow marries another man, she has to
> > leave her children for two reasons, first the new husband won’t take the
> > children or if at all he is prepared, the former in-laws of the women are
> > forcing her to abandon her children and they take them.
> >
> > The woman then chooses not to marry for she will other wise loose her
> > children. This is such a tragic situation and primarily women suffer out
> of
> > this. First she loses her husband and then the society does not support
> her.
> > Remarriage is not an option for her as our society is far too
> underdeveloped
> > as remarriage of women is not seen as positive or encouraged, and when
> some
> > women are brave enough to remarry and start a new life, the new husband
> is
> > not willing to take her children. Therefore the women who has braved and
> > challenged the bad social practice and wanted to get remarried, she
> looses
> > her children. Naturally, therefore, she chooses to stay with her children
> > otherwise the children will have no roof over their head. Our
> organisation
> > is looking after few such orphans who lost their fathers to the strife,
> > either killed by the army or died in an encounter, but when their mothers
> > were brave enough and remarried, they lost their mother as well, as the
> new
> > husband wouldn’t take the children.
> >
> > I wanted to hire a house for these roaming orphan girls who are going
> from
> > house to house. I want to hire a house and put some of these there. Even
> > people here are afraid of giving money. We opened a bank account, but the
> > government ceased that account as well, therefore, we are not allowed to
> > operate.
> >
> > *Q: You had such an important role to play for the suffering Kashmiri
> women,
> > but as you are involved in politics, the government is really tough on
> you.
> > *A: I don’t believe that. In the beginning, *Dukhtaran-e-Millat* was not
> a
> > political organisation. We came onto the scene challenging India’s
> imposed
> > culture not Indian occupation. But we were hounded, arrested and stopped
> to
> > carry out peaceful activities.
> >
> > Just a few years back, we were doing relief work - purely relief work. We
> > were helping widows trying to rebuild their lives, feeding orphans and we
> > never publicised it as not to link it with our political work so that no
> one
> > can say that we are doing politics at the expense of the sufferings of
> > widows and orphans. But still we were booked under terrorism. The Indians
> > blamed our relief work saying that we were financing terrorism. Our
> > organisation was banned under the Terrorism Act and I was arrested. Thus
> > hundreds of widows and children we were supporting were left in the
> lurch.
> >
> > If feeding orphans and building shattered lives is terrorism, what can
> you
> > expect from the Indian state? Where is the space, whether we were making
> a
> > political statement or running a relief camp? India sees every Kashmiri
> as a
> > challenge and they crush us indiscriminately.
> >
> > *Q: The recent scandal now known as the sex scandal has rocked the whole
> of
> > Kashmir. What do you feel about it?
> > *A: The whole Indian army and the local police are involved in this
> > operation and it is part of India’s plan and strategy of
> counter-insurgency.
> > India is corrupting our culture and Indian secret agencies are grooming
> > young girls. Indian political leaders and the army and intelligence
> officers
> > are paedophiles who are exploiting Kashmiri girls as young as 14 or 15
> years
> > old. Some of them are lured and others threatened that if they do not go
> > with the army or intelligence or police officers, their family members
> will
> > be killed. There is a very small proportion that is willing to be part of
> > it, and they too have financial difficulties as they have lost their
> parents
> > in the present strife.
> >
> > *Q: Many times you have classified the present Kashmiri armed struggle as
> > jehad. But my perception is that in Kashmir innocent people were killed,
> > kidnapped and tortured in the name of jehad. That is surely not jehad,
> that
> > is ‘fasaad’ [anarchy].
> > *A: I don’t say that is *jehad*. What I said is that the movement against
> > the Indian occupation is *jehad*. If someone kills, kidnaps or tortures
> > people, burns houses, causing havoc; that is terrorism not *jehad*.
> >
> > *Q: What is your opinion about the armed struggle? Do you justify
> militancy
> > now?
> > *A: I have always justified armed resistance movement in Kashmir. India
> has
> > left us with no option and there is no future for any politics in
> Kashmir.
> >
> > *Q: Why do you say that?
> > *A: We have seen it since 1947. India has never heeded the political
> opinion
> > of Kashmiris. They have always treated us with contempt and they still
> do.
> > It is only because of the armed movement that India is still saying
> Kashmir
> > is a problem.  Otherwise, our so called leaders have thrown in the towel
> and
> > they are making money with both hands from both India and Pakistan.
> >
> > *Q: Why can’t this movement be inclusive so that Kashmiri Pandits and
> others
> > get involved as well?
> > *A: That can’t be possible. Pandits are happy with India and they are
> > getting huge economic incentives and why should they like to be part of
> > Pakistan?
> >
> > *Q: But do you agree that Pandits or any others have the right to oppose
> the
> > Kashmiri movement, and that they have a right to voice their opposition
> to
> > the ideas of azaadi and differ from the majority of Kashmiri Muslims?
> > *A: Of course they have every right to form their own political ideology
> or
> > oppose ours. We should have the same right to oppose them.
> >
> > *Q: But let us assume that tomorrow Kashmir becomes part of Pakistan,
> what
> > do you think the Pandits rights’ will be knowing that they opposed it in
> the
> > first place?
> > *A: Listen. They are part and parcel of our society. They will have the
> same
> > rights as any other person. There are millions of Hindus in Pakistan and
> > Pandits will have much better rights than what Indian Muslims are
> enjoying
> > at the moment.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rashneek Kher
> > http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
> > http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com
> > _________________________________________
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>
>
> --
>
> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
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-- 
Rashneek Kher
http://www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com
http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com