[Reader-list] Gujarat's secular development

Thu Jun 3 17:42:38 IST 2010

Dear Britta

Dissent???? What dissent?

If you are talking about your 'dissent' with Bipin, I have little interest in that, in the context of Modi/Gujarat since I do not know enough about Gujarat and am highly suspicious of Modi being any good for India (whatever else might be his claim to what he has done or not-done for Gujarat)

I did not comment on your 'dissent'.

I commented on the 'assent' you granted to your arrogance by making a generalisation  about "Indian Public" in stating that:

 "silencing any rational counter-argument" ...... "has been the problem of this list, and of the Indian public, for quite a while now."

You obviously see nothing wrong with making such a generalisation. 

Please have the last word.

Kshmendra

PS. Your comment to Bipin "Singapore is also a well-working state. But it's not a democracy." seems to suggest that you agree with the article you commented upon and that Gujarat is a "'well-working state" (like Singapore) but that (like Singapore) there is no democracy in Gujarat.        Interesting

--- On Thu, 6/3/10, Britta Ohm <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

From: Britta Ohm <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat's secular development
To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 5:09 PM

Kshmendra,
that is indeed a very satisfying answer to a reasonable question. Bouncing off dissent is the privilege of those who refuse communicating.
I have the answer, thanks.
B

Am 03.06.2010 um 13:10 schrieb Kshmendra Kaul:

Britta

If you need to wonder about your "idiotic arrogance" then not much can be said to you.

Keep wondering. You might at some stage find the answer.

K

--- On Wed, 6/2/10, ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

From: ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat's secular development
To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de, "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 10:17 PM

I wonder why it should represent an audacity to make a generalisation or
to point to a problem. My name is Britta, by the way.

> OHM
>  
> Whatever be your feelings about the absence or presence of rationality or
> irrationality in an individual or members of this List, it says much about
> you when you make generalisations about the 'Indian Public'.
>  
> Idiotic arrogance
>  
> Kshmendra 
>
> --- On Wed, 6/2/10, ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
>
> From: ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat's secular development
> To: "Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi" <rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com>
> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 8:57 PM
>
>
> Rajen, you're talking - even within the (lacking) logic of your own
> argument - such nonsense that it hurts. If it is deliberate, it is a smart
> move, if not, it is very sad, in any case it has the effect of silencing
> any rational counter-argument, and this has been the problem of this list,
> and of the Indian public, for quite a while now.
>
>
>> What courage is needed to mention about the refugee camps of tibetans in
>> Bylakuppe and bailahongal in Karnataka, where the hard work, no nonsense
>> approach to life and skills saw the tibetans rise again from strength to
>> strength, what courage is needed to mention about the jewish camps where
>> millions were gassed and subsequent rush to other nations where they
>> were
>> refugees but integreted with the society to rise as powerful
>> bankers.?What
>> courage is needed to talk about the brilliance of the next generation of
>> pandits who studied hard, played harder to acquire skills and achieve
>> higher
>> lifestyles.?
>> courage is needed to talk about the camps of useless individuals who
>> expect
>> all gifts from the system for voting the leaders to power.!
>> regards,
>> rajen
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:44 PM, anupam chakravartty
>> <c.anupam at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Bipin Trivedi
>>>
>>> you do not have the courage to reply back when list members wanted to
>>> show
>>> you the conditions of the relief camps of 2002 survivors in Gujarat.
>>> what
>>> are you quoting this report for?
>>>
>>> anupam
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:34 PM, <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Singapore is also a well-working state. But it's not a democracy.
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > The Sachar Committee report indirectly challenges other states to
>>> emulate
>>> > > Gujarat chief minister's policy of secular development and
>>> > ânationalise'
>>> > > it
>>> > > By Pravin Sheth
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> http://www.ahmedabadmirror.com/article/59/20100527201005270359478766a84c375/Gujarat%E2%80%99s-secular-development.html
>>> > >
>>> > > In setting up the Sachar Committee, the UPA government had its own
>>> > > objectives. Contrary to the expectations of Chief Minister Narendra
>>> > Modi's
>>> > > critics, the committee's comparative statewise statistics of
>>> parameters
>>> > > like education, employment and income of the Muslim population
>>> living
>>> in
>>> > > the country proves Gujarat is far ahead of other states, even those
>>> ruled
>>> > > by so-called secular parties.
>>> > >
>>> > > In terms of literacy, Muslims in Gujarat stood at 73.5% as compared
>>> to
>>> > the
>>> > > national average of 59.1. The figure for urban males is 76, and 81
>>> for
>>> > > those in rural areas as compared to the national average of 70 and
>>> 62
>>> > > respectively in similar categories.
>>> > >
>>> > > The average literacy rate of Muslim women in urban Gujarat is five
>>> points
>>> > > higher than the national average, whereas those in rural Gujarat
>>> fare
>>> > even
>>> > > better with a literacy rate of 57 per cent as compared to the
>>> national
>>> > > average of 43.
>>> > >
>>> > > A greater percentage of Muslims here have attained primary,
>>> secondary
>>> and
>>> > > higher-secondary level education. The national average is 60.9%.
>>> Muslim
>>> > > children in Gujarat are benefiting from equal opportunities to
>>> access
>>> > > secondary schooling as other children.
>>> > >
>>> > > Take other aspect of economic well-being of Muslims in Gujarat.
>>> Here
>>> > also,
>>> > > the Sachar Committee dispels the myth.
>>> > >
>>> > > The report counters the propaganda that injustice is being done to
>>> the
>>> > > Muslim community in Gujarat
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > The per month per capita income of Muslims in urban Gujarat is an
>>> average
>>> > > Rs 875 â more than the national average of Rs 804. In contrast, it
>>> is
>>> > Rs
>>> > > 662 in UP, Rs 748 in West Bengal, Rs 811 in Punjab, Rs 803 in
>>> Andhra
>>> > > Pradesh and Rs 837 in Karnataka.
>>> > >
>>> > > In rural Gujarat, the per capita monthly income of Muslims is
>>> 20-25%
>>> more
>>> > > than the Muslims living in rural areas of most other states. On an
>>> > > average, it comes to Rs 668 compared to the national average of Rs
>>> 553.
>>> > >
>>> > > In terms of Muslims living below poverty line, Gujarat improved
>>> from
>>> 54%
>>> > > in 1987-88 to 34% in 2004-2005, showing a healthy pace of
>>> improvement.
>>> > > Even in terms of share of Muslims in state employment, it is 5.4%
>>> in
>>> > > Gujarat while it is 2.1% in West Bengal, 3.2% in Delhi and 4.4% in
>>> > > Maharashtra.
>>> > >
>>> > > Overall, the total picture counters the propaganda that injustice
>>> is
>>> > being
>>> > > done to Muslims in Gujarat. The Sachar Committee on educational
>>> condition
>>> > > clearly shows that the Muslims of Gujarat are progressing well in
>>> the
>>> > > field of education and economic well-being. They are well cared
>>> for.
>>> The
>>> > > facts on their economic conditions dispel similar myths about their
>>> being
>>> > > discriminated against or being denied equal opportunity.
>>> > >
>>> > > The fact is echoed by the Imam of Jama Masjid in Ahmedabad, who
>>> > reportedly
>>> > > commented sometime back "Muslims have an opportunity to prosper in
>>> the
>>> > > peaceful environment that the Modi government has created. Modi has
>>> > > provided an atmosphere which is conducive for those who want to
>>> trade
>>> > > peacefully in Gujarat".
>>> > >
>>> > > The Sachar report indirectly challenges other states to emulate
>>> Modi's
>>> > > policy of secular development and ânationalise' it.
>>> > >
>>> > > Ironically, vociferous secularists are silent regarding the
>>> findings.
>>> > They
>>> > > continue to focus on Modi-1 as branded during the 2002 carnage and
>>> > > Sohrabuddin encounter â a chief minister habitually noted to
>>> dishonour
>>> > > the rule of law, a friend of corporate magnets to the detriment of
>>> > > villagers and SEZ-affected disadvantaged.
>>> > >
>>> > > However, there is popularly a more accepted Modi-2 â a dynamic CM
>>> > > realising the Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor, the Special
>>> Investment
>>> > > Regions, port-based development, âHopenhagen', BRTS, GDP, and much
>>> > more.
>>> > >
>>> > > But the two Modis fail to merge as some anti-Modi ideologues refuse
>>> to
>>> > > discern the significant transformation in his leadership.
>>> > >
>>> > > Can Modi, hubris-free, demonstrate his transformation to abridge
>>> this
>>> > > perception-reality gap?
>>> > >
>>> > > Source Link:
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> http://www.ahmedabadmirror.com/article/59/20100527201005270359478766a84c375/Gujarat%E2%80%99s-secular-development.html
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _________________________________________
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________
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>>> >
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>>> Critiques & Collaborations
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rajen.
>>
>
>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
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>
>
>

---------------------------------------
Dr. Britta Ohm

Institute of Social Anthropology
University of Bern
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Switzerland
+41-(0)31-631 8995 (main office)
+41-(0)31-631 8997 (direct line)
britta.ohm at anthro.unibe.ch

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ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de