[Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in mockanti-terror drill

Kshmendra Kaul kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com
Sat Mar 20 19:36:35 IST 2010 

Dear Tara
 
Such a mail, as this one from you, makes it worthwhile for me to continue stalking this List.
 
Uneducated as I am in these terms such as 'binaries' and 'structuralism', a mail like yours provides me leads to read a bit, understand a bit. And when a 'case study' in context is highlighted (as you have), it gives me an excellently helpful start.
 
Thanks
 
Kshmendra

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:


From: TaraPrakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in mockanti-terror drill
To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>, "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>
Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 8:38 PM


This is how binaries operate. Whatever I am not, is You.

Structuralism only knows binaries. It recognizes structures, not individuals. You can either be pro-muslim or anti-muslim, if you want me to put this explanation in this context. Whoever is not pro-muslim is anti-muslim. So now you know you are not Kshmendra, you represent a structure.

For a lot of individuals, 1960s are yet to happen.

Good luck


----- Original Message ----- From: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
To: "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>
Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in mockanti-terror drill


> Dear Anupam
> 
> You wrote : " will you approach moderators or launch a tirade against me like how you are
> acting with Dan Hussain and Javed?"
> 
> Javed? Yes! Dan Hussain? No!
> 
> Will you please tell me where I have addressed Dan Hussain or mentioned Dan Hussain or commented upon anything that Dan Hussain wrote?
> 
> NOWHERE.
> 
> And that is exactly where you go with some of your responses Anupam; NOWHERE.
> 
> What does that tell us about you?
> 
> That you do not read what you think you are responding to OR that you do not read what you yourself write OR that you are so consumed by bias, prejudice and pre-judgements about people and issues that your brain froths and you get all muddled up.
> 
> That is sad since when you are sane, you do write thought-provoking mails.
> 
> Kshmendra
> 
> anupam chakravartty c.anupam at gmail.com
> Mon Mar 15 19:19:02 IST 2010 "Dont bother to answer if you are intent on giving some convoluted
> justification of your own."
> 
> Instead of probing other's intention on this reader's list, you may
> look into you own intentions of writing such things Kshmendra. Who are
> you to tell me not to answer? say i answer in the most convoluted way,
> what will you do? have you been able to something better than reacting
> or answering in the most rotten way for such a long time? will you
> approach moderators or launch a tirade against me like how you are
> acting with Dan Hussain and Javed? that official who was shot was a
> muslim. there are no two versions about it. so kindly, hold your
> horses before you launch a personal tirade against each other. that
> man Saiyyad, who was shot is alive. lets wait for the probe. and if u
> cannot encourage a healthy debate here, then form your own reader's
> lists. why peddle this hatred into this mailing list on every
> occasion?
> 
> -anupam
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in mock anti-terror drill
> To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>, "anupam chakravartty" <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 6:53 PM
> 
> 
> Dear Anupam
> 
> A 'fake encounter' is a 'fake encounter', irrespective of a Muslim being a target or a Hindu, as you yourself seem to be suggesting.
> 
> Was this incident a 'fake encounter'? Maybe you know something about it that is not public so far.
> 
> How do you know what Javed's intention was in posting the article? Did he discuss his intention with you?
> 
> Was Javed justified in retaining the Subject-Line highlighting the "Muslimness" of the ATS Inspector?
> 
> Was Javed justified in retaining the comment " "Even Muslim police officers are not safe from fake encounters...."?
> 
> Dont bother to answer if you are intent on giving some convoluted justification of your own.
> 
> Kshmendra
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in mock anti-terror drill
> To: "Pawan Durani" <pawan.durani at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>, "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 6:33 PM
> 
> 
> What would you call if a Hindu were killed in such a fake encounter? I
> would say even Hindus are not spared in fake encounters in gujarat. I
> can see the fervour with which a bunch hooligans lurking on this list,
> carry out sporadic attacks on Muslim members of the list without ever
> pondering over the issues being discussed here in a pragmatic manner.
> Most of the arguments are extremely racist and I find it disgusting to
> read such. The intention of posting the news item was not for your
> benefit or score a brownie point over a communal battle. It is show
> the mindset with which police forces, that they need to understand
> their roles as watchdogs is what I gather from the news item. I thank
> Javed for posting this. If not for anything else, let there be a
> debate about reforms to be carried in policing.
> 
> On 3/15/10, Pawan Durani <pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you Kshemendra ,
>> 
>> I hope the moderators of SARAI would look into how this forum is misused .
>> 
>> Indeed when we type Gujarat Muslim DCP Muslim inspector the only
>> 'proof' we get is Javed's posting on SARAI.
>> 
>> And this is not the first time Javed has done that . I had tried to
>> convince the readers earlier as well .
>> 
>> Hope the moderators look into this and prevent misuse of Forum which
>> has members from across the world.
>> 
>> @Javed : you need to apologize to this group for your deliberate mischief .
>> 
>> Pawan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Javed very keenly identifies the ATS Inspector as a 'Muslim' and places in
>>> the Subject Field " Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector "
>>> 
>>> The word "Muslim" is nowhere to be found on the very weblink of the
>>> article as provided by Javed himself.
>>> 
>>> Not satisfied with having done so, Javed adds the comment "Even Muslim
>>> police officers are not safe from fake encounters...." (not to be found on
>>> the weblink provided by Javed)
>>> 
>>> One would have to be quite idiotic to not recognise Javed's intentions in
>>> making the incident "communal". Whatever be the actual 'story' behind the
>>> incident, as of now, there no reports of it having a "communal"
>>> background.
>>> 
>>> It is quite likely that the "Muslimness" of the ATS Inspector will get
>>> mentioned and highlighted in further reporting of the incident and
>>> commentaries on it. There are many Javed's around to do that. But Javed of
>>> SARAI "Reader List" will have the honour of being the first one to do so.
>>> 
>>> This should please the Moderator(s) of SARAI Reader List.
>>> 
>>> I just did a string-search for gujarat-dcp-muslim-inspector. It only
>>> throws up Javed's SARAI Reader List mail. Oh Yes! Also a webpage from a
>>> site called coastaldigest.com with obvious ideological leanings
>>> 
>>> Kshmendra
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Husain dan.ayyaar at gmail.com
>>> Mon Mar 15
>>> Javed's intent, even if to sensationalize the event, is less harmful then
>>> actually shooting a man twice for no fault of his. And it is most
>>> important
>>> to tackle the intent of the man with a loaded gun shooting at innocent
>>> people. Whoever that man be. And if he is a functionary of the state then
>>> it
>>> becomes even more imperative to tackle it. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Pawan Durani pawan.durani at gmail.com
>>> Mon Mar 15
>>> Dear C.Anupam ,
>>> 
>>> Did I say that any line has been said about Modi.
>>> 
>>> Would you google this news and check the subject line which has come
>>> in newspapers .
>>> 
>>> ATS inspector injured by bullet during mock drill : PTI
>>> 
>>> Gujarat DCP shoots cop during mock-drill : Indian Express
>>> 
>>> Drill that mocked precautions & exposed inadequacies : Times Of India
>>> 
>>> And then you have a subject line in SARAI ,as follows
>>> 
>>> Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in mock anti-terror drill :
>>> Reader-List - SARAI
>>> 
>>> If you do not understand the intent of Javed's mail, then i regret of
>>> trying to eductae you on his intent.
>>> 
>>> No more discussion on this from my side . Those who wish to ignore my
>>> suggestions may continue to do so.
>>> 
>>> Remember ...till they come marching to your door.
>>> 
>>> Pawan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Dan Husain <dan.ayyaar at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Gujarat DCP shoots Muslim inspector twice in
>>> mock anti-terror drill
>>> To:
>>> Cc: "sarai list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
>>> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 3:48 PM
>>> 
>>> Dear Pawan:
>>> 
>>> I seldom respond on this list. But I think your response is most flippant,
>>> insensitive, callous, off the cuff, prejudiced, and most of all laughable.
>>> Think of it. It's like a nightmare. You go for a drill, perfectly planned
>>> out, everyone presumably knowing their roles, and suddenly you get shot
>>> twice in your stomach. What for? For what reason? Why? The guy was just
>>> doing his job. And he gets shot! Bizarre! Absolute nightmare. This is
>>> outrageous. I am sure no one would like to live this experience. And when
>>> there were clear instructions that no arms to be taken in, why was the DCP
>>> carrying a loaded gun. And if he was why would he shoot someone that too
>>> twice. My mind belies any accident.
>>> 
>>> And I wonder what would turn you so blind that you'd eagerly defend the
>>> wrong too. I don't think anyone will like to be shot at for no fault of
>>> theirs. And yes if proven that the DCP shot at the guy with malice and for
>>> his religious identity then Modi is to be blamed because he has actively
>>> encouraged this mindset.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Danish
>>> 
>>> PS: Please respond to this mailing list and not to me personally. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> anupam chakravartty c.anupam at gmail.com
>>> Mon Mar 15
>>> 
>>> Pawan,
>>> 
>>> Not single line has been said against modi or BJP. Why are you
>>> assuming? On what grounds? On the other hand, if these things are not
>>> brought towards the notice of the machinery which is at work, there
>>> will be more such Saiyads dying in this way.
>>> 
>>> It is unfortunate that you are diverting the focus of the debate,
>>> which should discuss things about police reforms across the country to
>>> a political issue. You are absolutely wrong about Javed's intention to
>>> post this news item and also using Narendra Modi to make a point here.
>>> 
>>> Anupam
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Pawan Durani pawan.durani at gmail.com
>>> Mon Mar 15
>>> 
>>> And what a convenient subject line made aptly for Sarai . This is how
>>> 'Liberals' are used by Javed and others.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Pawan Durani
>>> <pawan.durani at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Yes Yes .. Let us blame Modi for this.
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Javed <javedmasoo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > ‘Sir, don’t... I am not a terrorist,’ pleaded ATS inspector as DCP
>>>> > shot him twice
>>>> >
>>>> > Even Muslim police officers are not safe from fake encounters....
>>>> >
>>>> > Surat: Posted: Sunday , Mar 14, 2010 at 0319 hrs
>>>> >
>>>> > “Sir, don’t... I am not a terrorist.”
>>>> > This is what Gujarat Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) inspector Shabbirali
>>>> > Saiyed says he had shouted, just before Deputy Commissioner of Police
>>>> > Subhash Trivedi shot him twice in the abdomen from point blank range
>>>> > during the mock anti-terror drill that went haywire at the Surat
>>>> > Airport on February 24.
>>>> >
>>>> > Saiyed still cannot comprehend how and why he was shot by the senior
>>>> > officer. No officer was supposed to carry or use live arms and
>>>> > ammunition. That apart, Saiyed told The Sunday Express that the > entire
>>>> > drill had been meticulously planned, including the exact role each > cop
>>>> > would play. “All the officials in the drill had been briefed
>>>> > thoroughly about the role of each. I was to be only an observer > tasked
>>>> > to find out what mistakes the commandos and other officials commit
>>>> > during rescue operations.”
>>>> >
>>>> > DCP Subhash Trivedi, SP Barot of ATS and a few other officers were
>>>> > tasked to act as doctors and rush to a bus in the parking lot of the
>>>> > airport in which some officials acting as terrorists were holding
>>>> > ‘passengers’ hostage.
>>>> >
>>>> > Saiyed recalled: “Subhash Trivedi rushed to the bus and caught hold > of
>>>> > me tightly, though I was supposed to be only an obeserver. I pleaded,
>>>> > “Sir , don’t... I am not a terrorist, I am the observer.” But he
>>>> > refused to let go of me and we had a scuffle. I was left struggling > to
>>>> > get out of his clutches when he pulled out his service revolver and
>>>> > opened fire, from point blank range. I fell and lost consciousness.”
>>>> >
>>>> > The .38 calibre bullet entered through his stomach and exited. Saiyed
>>>> > is still to recover but is now out of danger.
>>>> >
>>>> > Interestingly, the DCP, according to Saiyed, was not even tasked to
>>>> > take on or grapple with any ‘terrorist’ in the drill, since he was
>>>> > acting as a member of a team of ‘doctors’ at the spot who would only
>>>> > recce the scene to find out how many hostages and terrorists were in
>>>> > the bus. “He was to have only ascertained their numbers to pass on > the
>>>> > information to the others in the actual rescue team, so that they
>>>> > could plan and execute the operation,” according to Inspector Saiyed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Surat police Commisioner Shivanand Jha confirmed it. “Saiyed was
>>>> > deputed as an observer on the spot. He was standing near the entry
>>>> > door of bus. DCP Subhash Trivedi was tasked to act as a doctor to
>>>> > recce the scene and find out how many hostages were being held by how
>>>> > many terrorists, and the weapons they possessed.” The ‘doctor’,
>>>> > apparently, was not expected to carry any weapon, much less a loaded
>>>> > service revolver.
>>>> >
>>>> > So what went horribly wrong? The police claim they have no answers to
>>>> > share, yet. “We are still doing a free and fair investigation. At > this
>>>> > moment it is difficult to come to any conclusion. We have taken the
>>>> > statements of several airport staff who were also present there and
>>>> > statements of several police officials who witnessed the incident,”
>>>> > Jha said.
>>>> >
>>>> > When The Sunday Express contacted Trivedi, he refused to comment.
>>>> >
>>>> > The investigation is being headed by Jha’s deputy and ATS chief Ajay
>>>> > Tomar. A complaint was registered at Umra police station soon after
>>>> > Saiyed was shot while state DGP S S Khandwawala directed Tomar to
>>>> > carry out a departmental inquiry.
>>>> >
>>>> > “After preliminary investigations, we have found that the incident > was
>>>> > an accident and the firing had not been done deliberately. But we are
>>>> > waiting for the final report and the report from ballistic experts
>>>> > before coming to any conclusion,” said Khandwawala. Asked if an FIR
>>>> > would be registered against DCP Trivedi, Khandwawala said: “Let the
>>>> > report come and later, on its basis, we will take further action. > Both
>>>> > the officials are from police department _ they are not some > criminals
>>>> > _ so it is premature to say anything at this juncture.”
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sir-dont...-i-am-not-a-terrorist-pleaded-ats-inspector-as-dcp-shot-him-twice/590554/0
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> _________________________________________
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>> Critiques & Collaborations
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________
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> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
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