[Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT

[Bipin Trivedi]

Dear Kshemendra and Shuddha,

You prefer life imprisonment instead of capital punishment, since that is
the only alternative for capital punishment. So, terrorist or hard core
criminal or rapists, poor country like India have to bear their life time
expenses? Do you think it is practical solution? It is possible that for
terrorist release, one more plane hijack drama will happen and all the
passengers (150 to 200) boarded in it will have to pay their life since
according to new parliament law there will be no release of any terrorist in
exchange against hijacking. Have you thought on this?

The lowest crime rate perhaps in gulf countries since from the beginning
there are hard laws like public capital punishment or finger or other body
part punishment.  

Lawers like Ram Jethmalani (who is fought for even many terrorist also),
Harish Salve, even G. Parthsarthy also expressed their views about the fact
that there is no such law exists to decide turn by turn. Turn by turn is not
at all logical, logical means you think and decide with your mind for the
priority in different and practical manner that is logical. Afsal himself
made statement to decide death punishment soon and do not delay it for
political game. 

Shuddha you don’t want to believe the SC judgment for Afsal then there is
nothing to discuss in the matter. Your many thoughts are irrelevant and so
this also. Anyway, you even do not want to believe terrorist captured from
Azamgarh as a terrorists.

Thanks
Bipin



From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 7:38 PM
To: Bipin Trivedi
Cc: sarai-list
Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT

Dear Bipin
 
We are talking in circles now. I will try to make this my last post on this
thread and you are most welcome to have the final say.
 
1. To answer the easier question. Yes, in my opinion, the countries
including India, USA, China, Pakistan and whosoever else, even if they total
to 99% of the World Population are BARBARIC in having the 'death penalty' as
punishment for any crime whatsoever. 
 
    I hope you understand that I am not calling these countries 'barbaric'
in their sum-total, but 'barbaric' with regards to death-penalty.
 
2. Yes our (Indian) Constitution permits the 'death penalty' and from my
point of view that needs to be changed. And, because I want to see that
changed therefore my argument is not irrelevant but it is a mirror for
showing the barbarism of death-penalty existing in the Constitution and the
blood-lust of those who are scream for anyone at all to be done to death for
any crime whatsoever.
 
3. My (and presumably other 'people like me') opposing the 'death penalty'
is not meant for saving one person but for saving every person who might be
awarded the death sentence whether that person has killed 1 or a hundred or
thousands.
 
4. I tried to explain to you in the last mail why the delay in execution of
Afzal Guru is not 'minority appeasement' but I seem to have been
unsuccessful.
 
   There are reportedly 29 'mercy petitions' like that of Afzal Guru lying
pending with the President of India. 
 
   Afzal Guru was sentenced to death in 2004.
 
   Let me now give you some names of those who were awarded the death
sentence before Afzal Guru and you might realise that there is no 'minority
appeasement' in play.
 
  Look at these names: Murugan; G. Perarivalan; Chinna Shanthan;  Davinder
Singh Bhullar ;  Simon; Gnanprakasham; Meesekar Madaiah; Bilvendran; Gurdev
Singh; Satnam Singh; Para Singh; Sarabjit Singh; Praveen Kumar 
 
   There is a rule followed that each one will await its turn for being
accepted or being rejected. THIS IS IMPORTANT. You have said that "Legal
experts clearly says there is no such law to go with queue for death
sentence matter." Will you please tell me which "Legal Experts" But, isnt it
logical that it should be turn by turn. 
 
   Your main argument for fast-tracking the execution of Afzal Guru is "One
must separate terrorists conviction with other conviction. Due to our this
terror soft approach, we are unable to fight terror to the extent what
actually we should do."
 
   You are conveying that putting Afzal Guru to death speedily will deter
other terrorists from attacking India.
 
   In this I disagree with you and let me tell you why. Bipin there is no
evidence at all from any part of the World that executing the 'death
sentence' for any kind of a crime leads to decrease in the incidence of that
particular crime. If you have any such evidence please do share it. You can
take the examples of the very countries you mentioned USA, China, Pakistan
and you can add to that all other countries where the 'death penalty' is
awarded and executed.
 
As I said earlier, you can have the final say.
 
Kshmendra
 

--- On Sat, 5/8/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:

From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 10:54 AM
Dear Kshemendra,

I have not at all missed the central point. Politician go out of law for
their selfish motto, but not for terror conviction. What's the reason? Can
you tell? Just because of political mileage, nothing else. It's real problem
that people like you did not understand this. Because they were punished as
terrorists activity and so the special case and not because of their
religion. One must separate terrorists conviction with other conviction. Due
to our this terror soft approach, we are unable to fight terror to the
extent what actually we should do.

I have never mentioned that Afsalguru should be given priority for
punishment because he belongs to minority, but due to terrorist act
conviction only. Whoever involved in this and even in the future any
religion should be treated as same for terror conviction.

Afsalguru case is clear minor appeasement for not executing his conviction
and goes wrong message to terror groups and encourage them further. Legal
experts clearly says there is no such law to go with queue for death
sentence matter. Earlier such execution of death sentence carried out, out
of turn in the couple of occasions. 

Constitution of India (SC) has already convicted death sentence in 2006,
this cabinet for strange reason delaying it. So, this is clear minor
appeasement case Dear Kshemendra. This is where congress lack will to fight
terrorism.  

You personally oppose death sentence is altogether different issue. Our
constitution permits death sentence, so you argument at present is
irrelevant of blood thirsty animal from Indian point of view. It is
unfortunate that people like you oppose death sentence for the people who is
blood thirsty for hundreds or thousands of people. You want to save the life
of one person who engaged in blood bath and take lives of 100/1000 of
people!!! 

India is barbaric in your view by adopting death sentence than those nation
like US, China, Pakistan and many more are also barbaric for adopting this
law. This is about 70% of world population is barbaric according to you!

Thanks
Bipin



From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 4:10 PM
To: Bipin Trivedi
Cc: sarai-list
Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT

Dear Bipin
 
You have missed the central point. The Constitution of India gives that
right to Ajmal Kasab and also to Afzal Guru.
 
FYI Afzal Guru is not the only one who's appeal for waiver of 'death
penalty' is pending with the President. And most of the others are Hindus.
So stop obsessing about 'appeasement of minorities' in this case.
 
The Constitution of India is not so petty that it will be changed just
because you or someone else or even if millions of Indians want to deny
Kasab the tiered rights to Courts and appeal to President.
 
Bipin, one should not accuse others of behaving like blood-thirsty animals
and then become a blood-thirsty animal himself/herself.
 
Kshmendra
 
 
--- On Fri, 5/7/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:

From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 3:37 PM
Dear Kshemendra,
 
Parliament can and has right to make such decision if show will. But,
congress cannot show such will, who prolonged even Afsalguru conviction
keeping pending for so long for their vote bank politics. Comparison with
Shah Bano for the reason of vote bank politics only to appealing minor.
Reverting shah Bano verdict is classic example of minor appeasement and the
same case with Afsalguru and I am fear for Kasav also same thing might
happen.
 
Thanks
Bipin
 
 
 
 
From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 1:35 PM
To: sarai-list; Bipin Trivedi
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
 
Dear Bipin
 
A. I am against the death penalty for anyone for any crime whatsoever. I
believe the 'death penalty' is awarded in barbaric societies, and yes, India
is still barbaric in many ways.
 
B. You might disagree on the above. That does not change the opportunity
allowed in India for anyone convicted in a crime in a Lower Court to take
the matter to a Higher Cour.  
 
     Since it is a question of a 'death penalty', Kasab has the right to
have his case heard by the Higher Courts right upto the Supreme Court. After
that he has the right to appeal to the President for waiver of the 'death
penalty'. The Constitution of India provides that right. You cannot compare
Civil Law of the Shah Bano case witha 'death penalty' being awarded. 
 
     No one can take that right away from Kasab.
 
Kshmendra
  
 
--- On Thu, 5/6/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
 
From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
Subject: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
To: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
Date: Thursday, May 6, 2010, 3:33 PM
AS EXPECTED, KASAV RIGHTLY GOT DEATH SENTENCE.
 
Though terrorist's Kasav case was crystal clear, but still we have gone for
about 17 months fair trial and proved that how transparent our judicial
system is unlike Pakistan. But, after this trial and judgment, he should not
allow to appeal in the higher court and should be hanged in public
immediately without further judicial procedure. if Indira Gandhi (ex PM)
deny to obey court verdict and neglect law and Shah Banu case was revert out
of law by parliament than why cannot this? India should show the world that
country cannot compromise in integrity and take hard action if required like
open public death sentence.
 
Thanks
Bipin
 
 
 
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