[Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT

Sun May 9 12:00:17 IST 2010

dear malik,

why have you sent me a ticket? for wht joy?

anupam

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 11:54 AM, A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Mr Kaul,
>              I am sorry to interrupt the thread between you and Mr Bipin,
> but after reading your post couldn't resist writing back.
> 1&2.There is no harm in having an opinion/point of view different than what
> is the law in force.So long as it is not changed,the punishment would be
> based on the Supreme Court verdict that death penalty should be given only
> in rarest of rare cases and this is what has been done by the Judge in the
> Kasab case.To give the convicted person a safeguard against a wrong
> conviction of death penalty,it is mandatory for the sentence to be ratified
> in the next higher court, in this case Bombay High Court.
> If HC doesn't consider it as rearest of the rare case then it is a
>  different matter.
> 3.Ask the relatives of the persons killed by the barbaric act of the
> terrorist who want the fellow to be hanged in public/shot dead without trial
> even but the law of the land has prevailed and must prevail.
> 4. Everyone on the road knows why Afzal Guru is not being hanged.Anything
> rest is all bullshit.You have written that"There is a rule followed that
> each one will await its turn for being accepted or being rejected. THIS IS
>  IMPORTANT.",just give a refernce to this rule so that we also become
> aware.Even a clerk in Govt Office knows to prioritise which file is to be
> sent early and which later but the Delhi Govt can't make up its mind to send
> comments on Afzal's petition in 5 years.Even if such a rule exists who stops
> the Govt from changing it by executive directions-because no such rule
> exists at all. I say almost all such "mercy petitions" have some or the
> other contacts in political and bureaucracy and are intentionally being
> dragged. So long live Afzal because the earlier petitions will never be
> decided in his life time.May be if Kasab also gets the same stature as
> Afzal, he will also live on.
> Yes, we belong to Gandhiji's land so we don't do anything to people who
> come and kill us and would rather say come kill us and we will give you
> immunity from being hanged and even punished and spend crores of rupees for
> your safety.
> Long live Indian Politics!
> With regards,
>
> (A.K.MALIK)
>
>
> --- On Sat, 5/8/10, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > To: "Bipin Trivedi" <aliens at dataone.in>
> > Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 7:37 PM
>  > Dear Bipin
> >
> > We are talking in circles now. I will try to make this my
> > last post on this thread and you are most welcome to have
> > the final say.
> >
> > 1. To answer the easier question. Yes, in my opinion, the
> > countries including India, USA, China, Pakistan and
> > whosoever else, even if they total to 99% of the World
> > Population are BARBARIC in having the 'death penalty' as
> > punishment for any crime whatsoever.
> >
> >     I hope you understand that I am not calling these
> > countries 'barbaric' in their sum-total, but 'barbaric' with
> > regards to death-penalty.
> >
> > 2. Yes our (Indian) Constitution permits the 'death
> > penalty' and from my point of view that needs to be changed.
> > And, because I want to see that changed therefore my
> > argument is not irrelevant but it is a mirror for showing
> > the barbarism of death-penalty existing in the Constitution
> > and the blood-lust of those who are scream for anyone at
> > all to be done to death for any crime whatsoever.
> >
> > 3. My (and presumably other 'people like me') opposing the
> > 'death penalty' is not meant for saving one person but for
> > saving every person who might be awarded the death sentence
> > whether that person has killed 1 or a hundred or thousands.
> >
> > 4. I tried to explain to you in the last mail why the delay
> > in execution of Afzal Guru is not 'minority appeasement' but
> > I seem to have been unsuccessful.
> >
> >    There are reportedly 29 'mercy petitions' like that
> > of Afzal Guru lying pending with the President of India.
> >
> >    Afzal Guru was sentenced to death in 2004.
> >
> >    Let me now give you some names of those who were
> > awarded the death sentence before Afzal Guru and you might
> > realise that there is no 'minority appeasement' in play.
> >
> >   Look at these names: Murugan; G. Perarivalan; Chinna
> > Shanthan;  Davinder Singh
> > Bhullar ;  Simon; Gnanprakasham; Meesekar
> > Madaiah; Bilvendran; Gurdev Singh; Satnam Singh; Para
> > Singh; Sarabjit Singh; Praveen Kumar
> >
> >    There is a rule followed that each one will await its
> > turn for being accepted or being rejected. THIS IS
> > IMPORTANT. You have said that "Legal experts clearly says
> > there is no such law to go with queue for death sentence
> > matter." Will you please tell me which "Legal Experts" But,
> > isnt it logical that it should be turn by turn.
> >
> >    Your main argument for fast-tracking the execution of
> > Afzal Guru is "One must separate terrorists conviction with
> > other conviction. Due to our this terror soft approach, we
> > are unable to fight terror to the extent what actually we
> > should do."
> >
> >    You are conveying that putting Afzal Guru to death
> > speedily will deter other terrorists from attacking India.
> >
> >    In this I disagree with you and let me tell you why.
> > Bipin there is no evidence at all from any part of the World
> > that executing the 'death sentence' for any kind of a crime
> > leads to decrease in the incidence of that particular crime.
> > If you have any such evidence please do share it. You can
> > take the examples of the very countries you mentioned USA,
> > China, Pakistan and you can add to that all other countries
> > where the 'death penalty' is awarded and executed.
> >
> > As I said earlier, you can have the final say.
> >
> > Kshmendra
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 5/8/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 10:54 AM
> >
> >
> > Dear Kshemendra,
> >
> > I have not at all missed the central point. Politician go
> > out of law for
> > their selfish motto, but not for terror conviction. What's
> > the reason? Can
> > you tell? Just because of political mileage, nothing else.
> > It's real problem
> > that people like you did not understand this. Because they
> > were punished as
> > terrorists activity and so the special case and not because
> > of their
> > religion. One must separate terrorists conviction with
> > other conviction. Due
> > to our this terror soft approach, we are unable to fight
> > terror to the
> > extent what actually we should do.
> >
> > I have never mentioned that Afsalguru should be given
> > priority for
> > punishment because he belongs to minority, but due to
> > terrorist act
> > conviction only. Whoever involved in this and even in the
> > future any
> > religion should be treated as same for terror conviction.
> >
> > Afsalguru case is clear minor appeasement for not executing
> > his conviction
> > and goes wrong message to terror groups and encourage them
> > further. Legal
> > experts clearly says there is no such law to go with queue
> > for death
> > sentence matter. Earlier such execution of death sentence
> > carried out, out
> > of turn in the couple of occasions.
> >
> > Constitution of India (SC) has already convicted death
> > sentence in 2006,
> > this cabinet for strange reason delaying it. So, this is
> > clear minor
> > appeasement case Dear Kshemendra. This is where congress
> > lack will to fight
> > terrorism.
> >
> > You personally oppose death sentence is altogether
> > different issue. Our
> > constitution permits death sentence, so you argument at
> > present is
> > irrelevant of blood thirsty animal from Indian point of
> > view. It is
> > unfortunate that people like you oppose death sentence for
> > the people who is
> > blood thirsty for hundreds or thousands of people. You want
> > to save the life
> > of one person who engaged in blood bath and take lives of
> > 100/1000 of
> > people!!!
> >
> > India is barbaric in your view by adopting death sentence
> > than those nation
> > like US, China, Pakistan and many more are also barbaric
> > for adopting this
> > law. This is about 70% of world population is barbaric
> > according to you!
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bipin
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com]
> >
> > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 4:10 PM
> > To: Bipin Trivedi
> > Cc: sarai-list
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> >
> > Dear Bipin
> >
> > You have missed the central point. The Constitution of
> > India gives that
> > right to Ajmal Kasab and also to Afzal Guru.
> >
> > FYI Afzal Guru is not the only one who's appeal for waiver
> > of 'death
> > penalty' is pending with the President. And most of the
> > others are Hindus.
> > So stop obsessing about 'appeasement of minorities' in this
> > case.
> >
> > The Constitution of India is not so petty that it will be
> > changed just
> > because you or someone else or even if millions of Indians
> > want to deny
> > Kasab the tiered rights to Courts and appeal to President.
> >
> > Bipin, one should not accuse others of behaving
> > like blood-thirsty animals
> > and then become a blood-thirsty animal himself/herself.
> >
> > Kshmendra
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 3:37 PM
> > Dear Kshemendra,
> >
> > Parliament can and has right to make such decision if show
> > will. But,
> > congress cannot show such will, who prolonged even
> > Afsalguru conviction
> > keeping pending for so long for their vote bank politics.
> > Comparison with
> > Shah Bano for the reason of vote bank politics only to
> > appealing minor.
> > Reverting shah Bano verdict is classic example of minor
> > appeasement and the
> > same case with Afsalguru and I am fear for Kasav also same
> > thing might
> > happen.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bipin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com]
> >
> > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 1:35 PM
> > To: sarai-list; Bipin Trivedi
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> >
> > Dear Bipin
> >
> > A. I am against the death penalty for anyone for any crime
> > whatsoever. I
> > believe the 'death penalty' is awarded in barbaric
> > societies, and yes, India
> > is still barbaric in many ways.
> >
> > B. You might disagree on the above. That does not change
> > the opportunity
> > allowed in India for anyone convicted in a crime in a Lower
> > Court to take
> > the matter to a Higher Cour.
> >
> >      Since it is a question of a 'death penalty', Kasab
> > has the right to
> > have his case heard by the Higher Courts right upto the
> > Supreme Court. After
> > that he has the right to appeal to the President for waiver
> > of the 'death
> > penalty'. The Constitution of India provides that right.
> > You cannot compare
> > Civil Law of the Shah Bano case witha 'death penalty' being
> > awarded.
> >
> >      No one can take that right away from Kasab.
> >
> > Kshmendra
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 5/6/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > Subject: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > To: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Thursday, May 6, 2010, 3:33 PM
> > AS EXPECTED, KASAV RIGHTLY GOT DEATH SENTENCE.
> >
> > Though terrorist's Kasav case was crystal clear, but still
> > we have gone for
> > about 17 months fair trial and proved that how transparent
> > our judicial
> > system is unlike Pakistan. But, after this trial and
> > judgment, he should not
> > allow to appeal in the higher court and should be hanged in
> > public
> > immediately without further judicial procedure. if Indira
> > Gandhi (ex PM)
> > deny to obey court verdict and neglect law and Shah Banu
> > case was revert out
> > of law by parliament than why cannot this? India should
> > show the world that
> > country cannot compromise in integrity and take hard action
> > if required like
> > open public death sentence.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bipin
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
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> > city.
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>
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