[Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT

[A.K. Malik]

Dear Kaul Sahib,
                 Thanks for the info. Just for your information one of the items in an NDTV Survey on UPA governance is a question:
"Do you think 26/11 terrorist Kasab should have got death sentence or life imprisonment?
It indicates  
  
Death sentence     90.47%  
Life imprisonment     8.05%  
Don't know     1.48%  
Total Votes: 4335
You would kindly see that most people are in favour of death penalty.

Regards,

(A.K.MALIK)  

--- On Wed, 5/12/10, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> To: "A.K. Malik" <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Sarai List" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 6:21 PM
> Dear AKM
>  
> Yes you are right. Somewhat right.
>  
> It was Home Secretary GK PIllai who said that Kasab
> could be hanged within 8 months. But he also
> indicated that period conditional to "If he does
> not file any appeal anywhere".
>  
> Subsequently Law Minister Veerappa Moily did say that
> even if Kasab filed an appeal the case could be and should
> be fast-tracked and that Kasab will be hanged within a
> year.
>  
> I was not wrong about the queue system for
> clemency-appeals from Death Row. I read about that rule
> being followed. (just one example here : http://ibnlive.in.com/news/afzal-sushil-santosh-waiting-on-death-row/114683-3.html?from=trhs )
> 
>  
> Obviously it is not so and even if there is some
> unwritten rule (as there seems to have been) then it 
> can be circumvented at the choice of the Executive as can be
> seen in the remarks of Abhishek Singhvi in this report : http://ibnlive.in.com/news/queue-not-caste-in-stone-in-kasabs-case-cong/114748-37-64.html?from=trhs
>  
> If the queue systen can be broken for fast-tracking
> for one set of reasons (in Kasab's case) then it can
> also be broken to delay for another set of reasons (in
> Afzal Guru's case).
>  
> Since, as you know, I am against the Death-Penalty,
> therefore I have no interest in exploring either set of
> reasons for either or any other case.
>  
> In an earlier mail I had mentioned 29 people being on
> the Death Row with Right of Appeal to President for Clemecy.
> I was wrong about that too. It would be more than 50. In
> August 2008 itself there were 50 as per response to a RTI
> petition. Details here:
> http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/6488-50-clemency-pleas-pending-before-prez.html
>  
> Kshmendra
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/12/10, A.K. Malik
> <akmalik45 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> To: "Kshmendra Kaul"
> <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Sarai List" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 5:16 PM
> 
> 
> Dear Mr Kaul,
>              You
> must have seen Times of India newsitem wherein Mr Moilly,
> the Law Minister says that Kasab will be hanged in 8 months
> time even if he files appeal.What happened to the Queue
> system where mercy petitions are waiting? Is he going to
> break the Q for poor Kasab and leave Afzal living? Something
> is definitely fishy about Afzal being kept alive and not the
> Q system you had relied upon.
> Regards,
> 
> (A.K.MALIK)
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/9/10, A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: A.K. Malik <akmalik45 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > To: "Kshmendra Kaul" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: "Sarai List" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 11:54 AM
> > Dear Mr Kaul,
> >               I am
> sorry
> > to interrupt the thread between you and Mr Bipin, but
> after
> > reading your post couldn't resist writing back.
> > 1&2.There is no harm in having an opinion/point of
> view
> > different than what is the law in force.So long as it
> is not
> > changed,the punishment would be based on the Supreme
> Court
> > verdict that death penalty should be given only in
> rarest of
> > rare cases and this is what has been done by the Judge
> in
> > the Kasab case.To give the convicted
>  person a safeguard
> > against a wrong conviction of death penalty,it is
> mandatory
> > for the sentence to be ratified in the next higher
> court, in
> > this case Bombay High Court.
> > If HC doesn't consider it as rearest of the rare
> case then
> > it is a  different matter.
> > 3.Ask the relatives of the persons killed by the
> barbaric
> > act of the terrorist who want the fellow to be hanged
> in
> > public/shot dead without trial even but the law of the
> land
> > has prevailed and must prevail.
> > 4. Everyone on the road knows why Afzal Guru is not
> being
> > hanged.Anything rest is all bullshit.You have written
> > that"There is a rule followed that each one will
> await its
> > turn for being accepted or being rejected. THIS IS
> >  IMPORTANT.",just give a refernce to this
> rule so that we
> > also become aware.Even a clerk in Govt Office knows
> to
> > prioritise which file is to be
>  sent early and which later
> > but the Delhi Govt can't make up its mind to send
> comments
> > on Afzal's petition in 5 years.Even if such a rule
> exists
> > who stops the Govt from changing it by executive
> > directions-because no such rule exists at all. I say
> almost
> > all such "mercy petitions" have some or the
> other contacts
> > in political and bureaucracy and are intentionally
> being
> > dragged. So long live Afzal because the earlier
> petitions
> > will never be decided in his life time.May be if Kasab
> also
> > gets the same stature as Afzal, he will also live on.
> > Yes, we belong to Gandhiji's land so we don't
> do anything
> > to people who come and kill us and would rather say
> come
> > kill us and we will give you immunity from being
> hanged and
> > even punished and spend crores of rupees for your
> safety. 
> > Long live Indian Politics!
> > With regards,
> > 
> >
>  (A.K.MALIK)
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Sat, 5/8/10, Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Kshmendra Kaul <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > > To: "Bipin Trivedi" <aliens at dataone.in>
> > > Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 7:37 PM
> > > Dear Bipin
> > >  
> > > We are
>  talking in circles now. I will try to make this
> > my
> > > last post on this thread and you are most welcome
> to
> > have
> > > the final say.
> > >  
> > > 1. To answer the easier question. Yes, in my
> opinion,
> > the
> > > countries including India, USA, China, Pakistan
> and
> > > whosoever else, even if they total to 99% of the
> > World
> > > Population are BARBARIC in having the 'death
> penalty'
> > as
> > > punishment for any crime whatsoever. 
> > >  
> > >     I hope you understand that I
> am not calling
> > these
> > > countries 'barbaric' in their sum-total,
> but
> > 'barbaric' with
> > > regards to death-penalty.
> > >  
> > > 2. Yes our (Indian) Constitution permits the
> 'death
> > > penalty' and from my point of view that needs
> to be
> > changed.
> > > And, because I want
>  to see that changed therefore my
> > > argument is not irrelevant but it is a mirror
> for
> > showing
> > > the barbarism of death-penalty existing in the
> > Constitution
> > > and the blood-lust of those who are scream for
> anyone
> > at
> > > all to be done to death for any crime
> whatsoever.
> > >  
> > > 3. My (and presumably other 'people like
> me') opposing
> > the
> > > 'death penalty' is not meant for saving
> one person but
> > for
> > > saving every person who might be awarded the
> death
> > sentence
> > > whether that person has killed 1 or a hundred or
> > thousands.
> > >  
> > > 4. I tried to explain to you in the last mail why
> the
> > delay
> > > in execution of Afzal Guru is not 'minority
> > appeasement' but
> > > I seem to have been unsuccessful.
> > >  
> > >    There
>  are reportedly 29 'mercy petitions' like
> > that
> > > of Afzal Guru lying pending with the President
> of
> > India. 
> > >  
> > >    Afzal Guru was sentenced to
> death in 2004.
> > >  
> > >    Let me now give you some names of
> those who were
> > > awarded the death sentence before Afzal Guru and
> you
> > might
> > > realise that there is no 'minority
> appeasement' in
> > play.
> > >  
> > >   Look at these names: Murugan; G.
> > Perarivalan; Chinna
> > > Shanthan;  Davinder Singh
> > >
> Bhullar ;  Simon; Gnanprakasham; Meesekar
> > > Madaiah; Bilvendran; Gurdev
> Singh; Satnam
> > Singh; Para
> > > Singh; Sarabjit Singh; Praveen Kumar 
> > >  
> > >    There is a rule followed that each
> one will await
> >
>  its
> > > turn for being accepted or being rejected. THIS
> IS
> > > IMPORTANT. You have said that "Legal
> experts clearly
> > says
> > > there is no such law to go with queue for death
> > sentence
> > > matter." Will you please tell me which
> "Legal Experts"
> > But,
> > > isnt it logical that it should be turn by
> turn. 
> > >  
> > >    Your main argument
> for fast-tracking the
> > execution of
> > > Afzal Guru is "One must separate terrorists
> conviction
> > with
> > > other conviction. Due to our this terror soft
> > approach, we
> > > are unable to fight terror to the extent what
> actually
> > we
> > > should do."
> > >  
> > >    You are conveying that putting Afzal
> Guru to
> > death
> > > speedily will deter other terrorists from
> attacking
> > India.
> > >
>   
> > >    In this I disagree with you and let
> me tell you
> > why.
> > > Bipin there is no evidence at all from any part
> of the
> > World
> > > that executing the 'death sentence' for
> any kind of a
> > crime
> > > leads to decrease in the incidence of that
> particular
> > crime.
> > > If you have any such evidence please do share it.
> You
> > can
> > > take the examples of the very countries you
> mentioned
> > USA,
> > > China, Pakistan and you can add to that all
> other
> > countries
> > > where the 'death penalty' is awarded and
> executed.
> > >  
> > > As I said earlier, you can have the final say.
> > >  
> > > Kshmendra
> > >  
> > > 
> > > --- On Sat, 5/8/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > > To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > > Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 10:54 AM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dear Kshemendra,
> > > 
> > > I have not at all missed the central point.
> Politician
> > go
> > > out of law for
> > > their selfish
>  motto, but not for terror conviction.
> > What's
> > > the reason? Can
> > > you tell? Just because of political mileage,
> nothing
> > else.
> > > It's real problem
> > > that people like you did not understand this.
> Because
> > they
> > > were punished as
> > > terrorists activity and so the special case and
> not
> > because
> > > of their
> > > religion. One must separate terrorists
> conviction
> > with
> > > other conviction. Due
> > > to our this terror soft approach, we are unable
> to
> > fight
> > > terror to the
> > > extent what actually we should do.
> > > 
> > > I have never mentioned that Afsalguru should be
> given
> > > priority for
> > > punishment because he belongs to minority, but
> due to
> > > terrorist act
> > > conviction only. Whoever involved in this and
> even in
> > the
> > >
>  future any
> > > religion should be treated as same for terror
> > conviction.
> > > 
> > > Afsalguru case is clear minor appeasement for
> not
> > executing
> > > his conviction
> > > and goes wrong message to terror groups and
> encourage
> > them
> > > further. Legal
> > > experts clearly says there is no such law to go
> with
> > queue
> > > for death
> > > sentence matter. Earlier such execution of death
> > sentence
> > > carried out, out
> > > of turn in the couple of occasions. 
> > > 
> > > Constitution of India (SC) has already convicted
> > death
> > > sentence in 2006,
> > > this cabinet for strange reason delaying it. So,
> this
> > is
> > > clear minor
> > > appeasement case Dear Kshemendra. This is where
> > congress
> > > lack will to fight
> > > terrorism.  
> > >
>  
> > > You personally oppose death sentence is
> altogether
> > > different issue. Our
> > > constitution permits death sentence, so you
> argument
> > at
> > > present is
> > > irrelevant of blood thirsty animal from Indian
> point
> > of
> > > view. It is
> > > unfortunate that people like you oppose death
> sentence
> > for
> > > the people who is
> > > blood thirsty for hundreds or thousands of
> people. You
> > want
> > > to save the life
> > > of one person who engaged in blood bath and take
> lives
> > of
> > > 100/1000 of
> > > people!!! 
> > > 
> > > India is barbaric in your view by adopting death
> > sentence
> > > than those nation
> > > like US, China, Pakistan and many more are also
> > barbaric
> > > for adopting this
> > > law. This is about 70% of world population is
> >
>  barbaric
> > > according to you!
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > Bipin
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com]
> > > 
> > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 4:10 PM
> > > To: Bipin Trivedi
> > > Cc: sarai-list
> > > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > > 
> > > Dear Bipin
> > >  
> > > You have missed the central point. The
> Constitution
> > of
> > > India gives that
> > > right to Ajmal Kasab and also to Afzal Guru.
> > >  
> > > FYI Afzal Guru is not the only one who's
> appeal for
> > waiver
> > > of 'death
> > > penalty' is pending with the President. And
> most of
> > the
> > > others are Hindus.
> > >
>  So stop obsessing about 'appeasement of
> minorities' in
> > this
> > > case.
> > >  
> > > The Constitution of India is not so petty that it
> will
> > be
> > > changed just
> > > because you or someone else or even if millions
> of
> > Indians
> > > want to deny
> > > Kasab the tiered rights to Courts and appeal to
> > President.
> > >  
> > > Bipin, one should not accuse others of behaving
> > > like blood-thirsty animals
> > > and then become a blood-thirsty animal
> > himself/herself.
> > >  
> > > Kshmendra
> > >  
> > >  
> > > --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > > Subject: RE: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > > To: "'Kshmendra Kaul'" <kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com>
> > > Cc: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 3:37 PM
> > > Dear Kshemendra,
> > >  
> > > Parliament can and has right to make such
> decision if
> > show
> > > will. But,
> > > congress cannot show such will, who prolonged
> even
> > > Afsalguru conviction
> > > keeping pending for so long for their vote bank
> > politics.
> > > Comparison
>  with
> > > Shah Bano for the reason of vote bank politics
> only
> > to
> > > appealing minor.
> > > Reverting shah Bano verdict is classic example
> of
> > minor
> > > appeasement and the
> > > same case with Afsalguru and I am fear for Kasav
> also
> > same
> > > thing might
> > > happen.
> > >  
> > > Thanks
> > > Bipin
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > From: Kshmendra Kaul [mailto:kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com]
> > > 
> > > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 1:35 PM
> > > To: sarai-list; Bipin Trivedi
> > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > >  
> > > Dear Bipin
> > >  
> > > A. I am against the death penalty for anyone for
>  any
> > crime
> > > whatsoever. I
> > > believe the 'death penalty' is
> awarded in barbaric
> > > societies, and yes, India
> > > is still barbaric in many ways.
> > >  
> > > B. You might disagree on the above. That does
> not
> > change
> > > the opportunity
> > > allowed in India for anyone convicted in a crime
> in a
> > Lower
> > > Court to take
> > > the matter to a Higher Cour.  
> > >  
> > >      Since it is a question
> of a 'death penalty',
> > Kasab
> > > has the right to
> > > have his case heard by the Higher Courts right
> upto
> > the
> > > Supreme Court. After
> > > that he has the right to appeal to the President
> for
> > waiver
> > > of the 'death
> > > penalty'. The Constitution of India provides
> that
> > right.
> > > You cannot compare
> >
>  > Civil Law of the Shah Bano case witha 'death
> penalty'
> > being
> > > awarded. 
> > >  
> > >      No one can take that
> right away from Kasab.
> > >  
> > > Kshmendra
> > >   
> > >  
> > > --- On Thu, 5/6/10, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > > wrote:
> > >  
> > > From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> > > Subject: [Reader-list] KASAV VERDICT
> > > To: "sarai-list" <reader-list at sarai.net>
> > > Date: Thursday, May 6, 2010, 3:33
>  PM
> > > AS EXPECTED, KASAV RIGHTLY GOT DEATH SENTENCE.
> > >  
> > > Though terrorist's Kasav case was crystal
> clear, but
> > still
> > > we have gone for
> > > about 17 months fair trial and proved that how
> > transparent
> > > our judicial
> > > system is unlike Pakistan. But, after this trial
> and
> > > judgment, he should not
> > > allow to appeal in the higher court and should
> be
> > hanged in
> > > public
> > > immediately without further judicial procedure.
> if
> > Indira
> > > Gandhi (ex PM)
> > > deny to obey court verdict and neglect law and
> Shah
> > Banu
> > > case was revert out
> > > of law by parliament than why cannot this? India
> > should
> > > show the world that
> > > country cannot compromise in integrity and take
> hard
> > action
> > > if required like
> > > open public
>  death sentence.
> > >  
> > > Thanks
> > > Bipin
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > _________________________________________
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> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       
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