[Reader-list] NO CAVILING AT GUJARAT'S HARD FACTS
Britta Ohm
ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de
Fri May 28 21:15:25 IST 2010
Can't seem to get any mail through the sarai server.
Am 28.05.2010 um 15:49 schrieb anupam chakravartty:
> and also Selective comparison, if you please Rajen
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:17 PM, anupam chakravartty <c.anupam at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
>> Selective amnesia does no good for you too Rajen.
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Rajendra Bhat Uppinangadi <
>> rajen786uppinangady at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Not bad for a german to visit the camps in gujarath, and feel for
>>> the
>>> "muslims" but as you landed at new delhi, did you notice the camps
>>> of
>>> displaced people of Kashmir exisiting there for over six decades,
>>> madam, i
>>> wonder. Selective amnesia does no good for any activist.
>>> By the way to term muslims and other followers of faith as
>>> Minority is
>>> misnomer for the simple reason, the other individuals in
>>> "majority" faith
>>> are so badly divided on caste, sub caste, clans and sub clans that
>>> they
>>> are
>>> the real minorities compared to the gatherings of sunday mass or
>>> friday
>>> prayers, which mobilise 90 percent of the followers of the minority
>>> faiths.!
>>> wprse still, is the minority have hindu names with their faith
>>> nomenclature
>>> assigned by the priests, like Mahesh maqbul batt, Naveen Ignatious
>>> D'souza,
>>> so one can easily hide the faith that he is following.!
>>> That apart, all this minority and majority is the guise to grab
>>> votes to
>>> ascend the throne of power, so cool it.NGOs have not much of
>>> credibilty
>>> left
>>> as most of them are doing the business of procuring the grants and
>>> funds
>>> and
>>> very few actually use it for any worthwhile good work for the
>>> purpose it
>>> is
>>> given for. perceptions are managed to get more funds.
>>> regards,
>>> rajen
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Britta Ohm <ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also have a few questions:
>>>>
>>>> a) Numbers being as stretchable to the creation of myths as any
>>>> other
>>>> source, what about the displaced inhabitants of the 70 'semi-
>>>> permanent' camps scattered around Gujarat, not officially
>>>> acknowledged
>>>> by the Gujarat government and maintained by NGOs (a few of which I
>>>> visited in 2007)? The Muslim inhabitants' voter IDs and ration
>>>> cards
>>>> have to a large degree never been replaced, which means they would
>>>> never figure in any 'proper' survey. Does the physical displacement
>>>> and statistical/legal erasure of nearly 200 000 Muslims not
>>>> constitute
>>>> a 'hard fact'? Or is it precisely the necessary basis of 'hard
>>>> facts'
>>>> creation?
>>>>
>>>> b) At what political and psychological price has this numerical
>>>> mystery been achieved? How many legal cases have been withdrawn
>>>> under
>>>> what pressure? How many Muslims are imprisoned without seeing a
>>>> lawyer, or even knowing their case? What rights were sacrificed in
>>>> return for acceptance in employment? How many residential areas
>>>> were
>>>> 'voluntarily' vacated (or not reclaimed) in order to not provoke
>>>> further exclusion? Which topics of learning and education have been
>>>> dropped so as to be admitted to higher education? What do the
>>>> numbers
>>>> of primary schools close to a 'Muslim area' tell about kids'
>>>> discrimination? Any minority that knows it can't do anything to
>>>> profoundly change its situation will cooperate to the best of its
>>>> abilities - and after a while, helped by the outer circumstances
>>>> that
>>>> play off 'cooperative' against 'non-cooperative' members - possibly
>>>> truly believe that it is doing really well and even start to
>>>> discredit
>>>> 'non-cooperative' members of the same community. After all, it's
>>>> their
>>>> fault if they do not progress and make their lives difficult, and
>>>> they
>>>> better learn to adjust lest they soil the new good reputation of
>>>> those
>>>> who cooperate willingly and see the advantages. The deal is
>>>> psychologically extremely straining but at the core dead simple:
>>>> inclusion for justice.
>>>>
>>>> The pogrom of Gujarat was not classified by the UN as an attempted
>>>> genocide because of the number of victims but because there was no
>>>> other way of doing categorical justice to the uncompromising will
>>>> to
>>>> kill the Muslim minority. Everybody knew that it was, because of
>>>> their
>>>> numbers, impossible to 'get them all'. Modi's 'success' thus lies
>>>> not
>>>> in the pogrom itself but in having been able to employ it as a
>>>> means
>>>> of ending the 'communal/minority problem' on another level. The
>>>> numbers of success and inclusion suggested here correspond with
>>>> claims
>>>> and imaginations of fair and supportive minority politics. Nice.
>>>> But
>>>> how should this be possible after a genocidal attack and the same
>>>> government in power? There are just things that do not go together,
>>>> whichever way you turn them, because they are humanly impossible,
>>>> so
>>>> there have to be found other, more human explanations. And looked
>>>> at
>>>> the 'hard facts' this way, it simply is more likely that they
>>>> express
>>>> the 'actual' and realistically pursued outcome of the pogrom,
>>>> namely
>>>> the renunciation or created sheer impossibility of democratically
>>>> claiming human and minority rights.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 26.05.2010 um 13:26 schrieb Pawan Durani:
>>>>
>>>>> Any idea of recent communal riot in Shahpur , Ahmedabad....I dont
>>>>> see anyone
>>>>> discussing that.
>>>>>
>>>>> pawan
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 4:43 PM, anupam chakravartty <
>>> c.anupam at gmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bipin,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a few questions for you: When was the Sachar committee
>>>>>> report filed?
>>>>>> Was there any such committee before Sachar to assess the
>>>>>> condition
>>>>>> of one
>>>>>> particular community as mentioned in your post? Do you think a
>>>>>> comparative
>>>>>> analysis is required in ascertaining the conditions prevalent
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> community now and then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks anupam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Bipin Trivedi
>>>>>> <aliens at dataone.in>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To an editorial published in the Indian Express on May 22
>>>>>>> titled "
>>>>>>> <http://www.indianexpress.com/news/hard-facts-to-face/622193/>
>>>>>>> Hard
>>>>>> facts
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> face" the Gujarat Government had sent a letter in response
>>>>>>> stating
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> factual position regarding the status of Muslim in Gujarat.
>>>>>>> <http://www.indianexpress.com/news/hard-facts/623677/0> A part
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> letter
>>>>>>> was published in the Indian Express dated May 26, 2010. The
>>>>>>> complete
>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>> of the letter that was sent to the Editor Indian Express is
>>>>>>> enclosed
>>>>>>> herewith so that you will be conversant with the real hard
>>>>>>> facts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Refer link:
>>>>>> http://www.indianexpress.com/news/hard-facts-to-face/622193/0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No caviling at Gujarat's hard facts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do Muslims fare in Gujarat? They fare much better compared
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> states. The objective study by the Prime Minister's high-level
>>>>>>> committee
>>>>>>> headed by Justice Rajendra Sachar, appointed by Prime Minister
>>>>>>> Dr
>>>>>> Manmohan
>>>>>>> Singh in 2006, indicates that Muslims in Gujarat perform and
>>>>>>> fare
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>> better when compared with other states in several key indicators
>>>>>>> such as
>>>>>>> education, employment, income and access to critical
>>>>>>> infrastructure. The
>>>>>>> editorial in the Indian Express dated May 22, 2010 is mostly
>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> perceptions and anecdotal evidences rather than hard facts.
>>>>>>> However the
>>>>>>> facts below speak for themselves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In trying to make out a case for Muslim children being given a
>>>>>>> raw
>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> primary and upper primary school enrolment facts that has placed
>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Gujarat on the top of literacy ladder have been totally ignored.
>>>>>> According
>>>>>>> to Sachar committee report the percentage of literacy of
>>>>>>> Muslims in
>>>>>> Gujarat
>>>>>>> is 73.5 per cent, the highest in India. It is pertinent to note
>>>>>>> that this
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> much higher than that of national average of 59.1 per cent and
>>>>>>> also the
>>>>>>> percentage of literacy of Hindus in Gujarat which is 68.3 per
>>>>>>> cent. Even
>>>>>>> Muslim women in urban areas of Gujarat have average literacy
>>>>>>> rate 5
>>>>>> points
>>>>>>> higher than the national average and rural Muslim women are
>>>>>>> far much
>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> with their literacy rate of 57 per cent as compared to the
>>>>>>> national
>>>>>> average
>>>>>>> of 43 per cent. If Muslim children are not provided education
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> Muslims in Gujarat attain the highest literacy rate in the
>>>>>>> country?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> During 2009-10 the enrolment of Muslim children has been 6.45
>>>>>>> per
>>>>>>> cent
>>>>>> (as
>>>>>>> against 4.7 per cent reported). It should be kept mind that this
>>>>>> percentage
>>>>>>> excludes the enrolment in Madarsas and also some of the private
>>>>>>> schools
>>>>>>> which do not provide segregated data. The very fact that
>>>>>>> Muslims in
>>>>>> Gujarat
>>>>>>> have the highest literacy rate in the country proves that they
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>> access
>>>>>>> to education much better than in other states. If you look at
>>>>>>> Muslim
>>>>>>> education attainment those who have passed the primary stage are
>>>>>>> 74.9 per
>>>>>>> cent way ahead of the national average 60.9 per cent. In the
>>>>>>> category of
>>>>>>> those who passed secondary education Gujarat at 45.3 is ahead
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> national average of 40.5 per cent. Even in the category of those
>>>>>>> who have
>>>>>>> passed higher secondary level Gujarat with 26.1 per cent is
>>>>>>> ahead
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> national average of 23.9 per cent. In the average years of
>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>>>> schooling provided between the age group of 7-16 once again
>>>>>>> Gujarat with
>>>>>>> 4.29 per cent is ahead of the nationa Your reference to Juhapura
>>>>>>> area of
>>>>>>> Ahmedabad lacking schools due to "gradual disentitlement and
>>>>>> ghettoisation
>>>>>>> of Gujarat's Muslims" is specious to the say the least as the
>>>>>>> facts prove
>>>>>>> otherwise. There are eight high schools out of which three are
>>>>>>> government-aided schools. In Juhapura and surrounding areas
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are 13
>>>>>>> municipal primary schools funded by the state government and
>>>>>>> also 15
>>>>>>> private
>>>>>>> schools. Far from being ghettoized there is ample opportunity
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Muslim
>>>>>>> children to enroll themselves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Secondly it has become a knee-jerk habit of secularists to pooh-
>>>>>>> pooh the
>>>>>>> good governance of the state of Gujarat. And as to your question
>>>>>>> if "his
>>>>>>> fabled governance genius translate into a better life for
>>>>>>> those his
>>>>>>> politics
>>>>>>> rejects?" the answer is clearly in the Sachar report which has
>>>>>>> called the
>>>>>>> bluff of those who have tried to besmirch Gujarat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the very social sectors which your editorial cites as the
>>>>>>> indicator of
>>>>>>> percolation of development to the minorities, Sachar Committee
>>>>>>> report
>>>>>>> reveals the performance of Gujarat is far better than many other
>>>>>>> states.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> document also reveals Gujarat is far ahead in terms of providing
>>>>>> education
>>>>>>> facilities and health facilities. If we take the case
>>>>>>> availability
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> schools in villages where there is Muslim population Gujarat is
>>>>>>> far ahead
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the national average. In the category of villages with
>>>>>>> population of
>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>> more than 2000 all the villages have education facility as
>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>> 98.7
>>>>>> per
>>>>>>> cent national average. In the category of 1000 to 2000
>>>>>>> population,
>>>>>>> 99.9
>>>>>> per
>>>>>>> cent villages have education facilities as against the national
>>>>>>> average
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> 95.4 per cent. In the category of less than 1000 population 98.6
>>>>>>> per cent
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the villages have education facility as against the national
>>>>>>> average of
>>>>>>> 80.4
>>>>>>> per cent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When we consider the availability of medical facilities in
>>>>>>> villages,
>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> Muslim population is more 2000, 89.9 per cent of the villages
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>> medical
>>>>>>> facilities as against the national average of 70.7 per cent.
>>>>>>> In the
>>>>>>> category
>>>>>>> of 1000-2000 population, 66.67 per cent of villages have medical
>>>>>> facilities
>>>>>>> against the national average of 43.5 per cent. In the category
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>> villages
>>>>>>> less than 1000 population, 53 per cent of the villages have
>>>>>>> medical
>>>>>>> facilities as against the national average of 20.2 per cent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even in the case of other indicators such as road connectivity,
>>>>>>> availability
>>>>>>> of pucca approach road etc Gujarat is far ahead of national
>>>>>>> average and
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> other states. Even on per month per capita income of Muslims is
>>>>>>> more than
>>>>>>> the Hindus of Gujarat in rural areas. For Muslims it stands at
>>>>>>> Rs
>>>>>>> 668
>>>>>>> compared to Rs 644 for Hindus (SCs Rs 527 and OBCs Rs 594). This
>>>>>>> is much
>>>>>>> higher than many other states for example Andhra Pradesh (Rs
>>>>>>> 610);
>>>>>>> West
>>>>>>> Bengal (Rs 501); UP (Rs 509); Karnataka (Rs 532); MP (Rs 475) .
>>>>>>> The per
>>>>>>> capita income of Muslims in urban areas is also higher than the
>>>>>>> national
>>>>>>> average and many other states. (see Sachar report). The
>>>>>>> prosperity
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Muslims in Gujarat when compared with other states is
>>>>>>> reflected in
>>>>>>> terms
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the bank account wise average deposit. For instance Gujarat it
>>>>>>> is Rs
>>>>>> 32,932
>>>>>>> compared to West Bengal Rs 13, 824, Assam Rs 26,319 to cite a
>>>>>>> few
>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you take the employment of Muslims in critical departments of
>>>>>> government
>>>>>>> such as home department, state transport dept and even in public
>>>>>>> sectors
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> percentage of Muslims occupying high posts is higher in
>>>>>>> Gujarat when
>>>>>>> compared with other States. Just to cite an example in Gujarat
>>>>>>> where the
>>>>>>> percentage of Muslims is 9.1 the proportion of Muslims in high
>>>>>>> posts is
>>>>>> 8.5
>>>>>>> per cent whereas in West Bengal where the Muslim population is
>>>>>>> 25.2 per
>>>>>>> cent
>>>>>>> the proportion of Muslims is merely 1.2 per cent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To discuss on each and every parameter to establish that Muslims
>>>>>>> fare far
>>>>>>> better in Gujarat is neither required nor possible to
>>>>>>> enumerate in a
>>>>>>> letter.
>>>>>>> Your editorial mentions that Modi should be open to verification
>>>>>>> of his
>>>>>>> claims of inclusive development. The above mentioned facts
>>>>>>> clearly
>>>>>>> demonstrate that better governance in Gujarat has been
>>>>>>> translated
>>>>>>> into a
>>>>>>> better life for all the people in Gujarat, including the
>>>>>>> minorities. Your
>>>>>>> editorial recommends open verification of the claims. The high-
>>>>>>> powered
>>>>>>> committee appointed by the Prime Minister has to a great extent
>>>>>>> not only
>>>>>>> verified the claims but also clearly established that these
>>>>>>> claims
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>>>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>>>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>>>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-
>>>>> list
>>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>> Dr. Britta Ohm
>>>>
>>>> Institute of Social Anthropology
>>>> University of Bern
>>>> Laenggassstr. 49a
>>>> 3012 Bern
>>>> Switzerland
>>>> +41-(0)31-631 8995 (main office)
>>>> +41-(0)31-631 8997 (direct line)
>>>> britta.ohm at anthro.unibe.ch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Solmsstr. 36
>>>> 10961 Berlin
>>>> Germany
>>>> +49-(0)30-69507155
>>>> ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________
>>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rajen.
>>> _________________________________________
>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>
>>
>>
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
> subscribe in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
---------------------------------------
Dr. Britta Ohm
Institute of Social Anthropology
University of Bern
Laenggassstr. 49a
3012 Bern
Switzerland
+41-(0)31-631 8995 (main office)
+41-(0)31-631 8997 (direct line)
britta.ohm at anthro.unibe.ch
Solmsstr. 36
10961 Berlin
Germany
+49-(0)30-69507155
ohm at zedat.fu-berlin.de
More information about the reader-list
mailing list