[Reader-list] reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 30

[asit das]

 indian state should undrstand what kashmiris say thats demoracy wll
of the people
asit

On 11/6/10, reader-list-request at sarai.net <reader-list-request at sarai.net> wrote:
> Send reader-list mailing list submissions to
> 	reader-list at sarai.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	reader-list-request at sarai.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	reader-list-owner at sarai.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of reader-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE
>       (Bipin Trivedi)
>    2. Re: [mcrc_jamia_alumni] A failed child-labour rescue	and
>       other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar (Yousuf)
>    3. Re: KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE
>       (Inder Salim)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:20:43 +0530
> From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> To: 'Inder Salim' <indersalim at gmail.com>
> Cc: sarai-list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR
> 	INDEPENDENCE
> Message-ID: <002901cb7d76$8dfb7130$a9f25390$@in>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> Yes, in the valley, between 74 to 95% (or average 85% according to this
> survey) favor independent Kashmir. But, rest of J&K (Jammu/Ladakh) merely
> less than 1% supports azadi. Any argument?
>
> So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating
> constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to
> divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and
> will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that
> their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate
> first in the proper direction.
>
> Thanks
> Bipin Trivedi
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net]
> On Behalf Of Inder Salim
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 10:55 PM
> To: reader-list
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE
>
> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a
> 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95
> percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu
>> 4fA
>>
>> (AFP) - May 27, 2010
>>
>> SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and
>> Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end unrest
>> in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday.
>>
>> Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey
>> found
>> that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour
>> independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir.
>>
>> United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the sub-continent
>> in
>> 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should belong
>> to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full.
>>
>> "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite
>> options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the survey,
>> which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank.
>>
>> Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the
>> opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de
>> facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations.
>>
>> "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments?
>> commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said.
>> The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how
>> they
>> saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant
>> source
>> of tension between India and Pakistan.
>>
>>
>>
>> But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian
>> Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent.
>> The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a
>> solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes".
>> More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption of
>> the insurgency in 1989.
>>
>> India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir, but a
>> recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence.
>>
>> _________________________________________
>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>> Critiques & Collaborations
>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>> subscribe in the subject header.
>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
> --
>
> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
> _________________________________________
> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
> Critiques & Collaborations
> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe
> in the subject header.
> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 23:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
> To: mcrc_jamia_alumni at yahoogroups.com
> Cc: sarai list <reader-list at sarai.net>,	jmi list
> 	<jamia_millia_alumni_directory at yahoogroups.com>,	Okhla Times
> 	<greenokhla at gmail.com>, info at bba.org.in
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] [mcrc_jamia_alumni] A failed child-labour
> 	rescue	and other dilemmas of Jamia Nagar
> Message-ID: <748186.49541.qm at web51404.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Dear Adil
> Thanks for your note. I also stay in Batla house. There is a possibility
> that those are children of the zari workers, but then I have the following
> concerns:
>
> 1. why do the children spend the night within the factories (the same
> dormitory-like rooms where they work). You can visit any of these places and
> see for yourself - they even keep their clothes and personal belongings in
> those rooms. Of course a TV has been provided in some rooms by the owners
> for their entertainment.
>
> 2. If their homes and families were right there, why were 60 of them willing
> to go with the BBA activists (they had been put into vehicles and then
> snatched back).
>
> 3. even if they are Zari worker's children, can the child-labour be
> justified? What about their education, playing, growth etc. What is wrong if
> an outside agency/NGO is concerned about that?
>
> 4. I am not defending the Bachpan Bachao Andolan - I hardly know them nor
> have I interacted with them. But I provided a link to their website
> (http://www.bba.org.in). And if you simply go by what they claim on the
> website, they have rescued over 50,000 children from labour/bondage
> situations. Of course you would be concerned about what do they do with the
> kids after rescue. Well, besides raid and rescue they also do repatriation,
> re-integration, rehabilitation and provide legal assistance. The police
> assists them in all raids (although in this case it didn't work out, and I
> know exactly why). But I would still like to know more about them (maybe to
> contact them after divali break).
>
> 5. But my bigger concern is: what are we as educated citizens of this
> locality doing? We (especailly Jamia's academic community with all its
> specialization in social sciences) have allowed the child labour to happen
> right before our eyes, and are now raising doubts about the outsiders.
>
> 6. Its better I don't talk about the local leaders and the religious fervour
> that can be raised everytime something happens here. Its always easy to
> blame others for one's plight but very difficult to look within.
>
> thanks
>
> Yousuf
>
>
> --- On Fri, 11/5/10, Adilmatin <adilmatin at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
>> From: Adilmatin <adilmatin at yahoo.co.in>
>
>> Dear yousuf, I appreciate your
>> concern but my information is that these children are local
>> residents and their parents are zari workers. I know this
>> because I stay in the locality next to the batla house area.
>> This is just a preconceived notion that because some Muslim
>> leaders have done something like this in the past,
>> therefore, they are always wrong. Specially When we compare
>> such local politicians with the 'word' NGO. You must be
>> aware about the scams and the scandals associated with the
>> 'word' NGO, but we can not generalise all of them.
>>
>>
>> Adil Matin
>> Vice President
>> Information TV-Indianews Channel
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 04-Nov-2010, at 8:23 AM, Yousuf <ysaeed7 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all
>> Below is a very unfortunate news from Jamia Nagar, New
>> Delhi. On 1st November a team of activists from the NGO
>> Bachpan Bachao Andolan along with police officials tried to
>> rescue about 60 children working in the sweatshops of zari
>> industry in Batla House. They had almost secured these
>> children and were taking them away, but their operation
>> failed because a mob led by local leaders gathered around
>> them and snatched all the children back. They spread the
>> rumour that the activists were “conspiring against
>> Muslims” and forcefully taking away “their” children.
>> The police obviously watched the whole drama without taking
>> any action. They were afraid that the event may take a turn
>> of communal violence. (http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php)
>>
>> This is a very sad state of affairs, not only for the
>> presence of rampant child labour in this area, the defiance
>> of the local goons, and the silence of the police. But it is
>> more unfortunate because of the inaction and silence of the
>> entire intellectual class originating from Jamia. The
>> neighbourhood of Jamia Nagar is spread around a central
>> university whose many staff, teachers and students reside
>> here. Jamia has well known departments and centres for the
>> study and training in Social Work, Peace Studies, Minority
>> Studies, media studies, Childhood development centre,
>> Gandhian studies and host of others (see
>> http://www.jmi.ac.in/centres.htm). But right under the
>> lamp there seems darkness.
>>
>> This is not the first time that the local people used the
>> “Muslim” card to thwart any outside attempt to improve
>> their lot. Of course there has been a lot of insecurity due
>> to the recent incidents of “terrorist encounter” and so
>> on. And the people’s hostility and anger towards the
>> police and “non-Muslims” can be understood in the light
>> of the generalisations made by the media and the police
>> about the people of this area. But this can also have a
>> different sort of advantage. Pretending the fear of local
>> backlash, the authorities have decided in the recent months
>> to turn a blind eye to the mass-scale illegal construction
>> of apartment buildings in the already narrow and cramped
>> lanes, allowing the neighbourhood to become utterly inhuman
>> to live. This construction activity and the zari factories
>> are all part of the growing monster that this area has
>> become. And the religious identity is a good excuse to allow
>> the monstrosity to grow larger. Of
>> course, one shouldn’t even mention that Delhi’s
>> aspirations of becoming a world class city during the recent
>> CW games didn’t touch this area in any way.
>>
>> I don’t know what can be done about it. But I am writing
>> here hoping that at least some discussion or debate could
>> ensue in some place to make sense of what is going on. But
>> more than a closed-door discussion, this neighbourhood needs
>> a street-level debate on how not to use the religious
>> identity for petty issues, and how real are these
>> “conspiracies against Muslims”.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Yousuf Saeed
>>
>> ----
>>
>> Child Labour Rescue Operation failed due to inefficient
>> attitude of administration
>>
>> On 1st of November 2010, Bachpan Bachao Andolan alongwith
>> the labour department, Task Force and Delhi Police conducted
>> a raid and rescue operation in their effort to eradicate
>> Child Labour in Jamia Nagar, New Delhi. After rigorous
>> effort by the activists of BBA more than 200 child labourers
>> in zari industry were identified. On this context BBA filed
>> a complaint to the District Task Force, D.C South on 19th
>> October 2010. After two planning meetings with all
>> stakeholders of District Task Force, the raid and rescue
>> date was finalised on 1st November 2010. As such the team
>> gathered at Kalkaji Police Station at 9:30 a.m to move for
>> identified spot headed by SDM, Defence Colony, Mr. P.N. Jha
>> and moved towards Batla House and hence started the rescue
>> operation. Children in this area were involved in the zari
>> works in miserable condition. They were between 6 years to
>> 13 years of age.
>>
>> The whole process of rescue was done peacefully and the
>> teams were successful in rescuing around sixty children and
>> they were being taken to the vehicle, but suddenly out of
>> nowhere two person named Amanatulla and Samiulla, who
>> introduced themselves as some members of a political
>> organization, along with the owners of the industry came and
>> interrupted the process of rescue operation. These two
>> person propagated a communal flavour during conversation
>> with our team members and motivated the people by saying
>> that these people are against Muslims.
>>
>> As a result of their interruption the local people started
>> gathering and asking questions. The Police Officials and the
>> people from the labour department remained standing as mere
>> spectators and most of them disappeared from the spot. The
>> activists of Bachpan Bachao Andolan were treated indecently
>> by the owners and the two so called local leaders namely
>> Amanautulla and Samiulla. They went to that extent of
>> obstructing the whole process and started to threaten the
>> children and forcefully snatched the rescued children away.
>>
>> In spite of this, the Police and the Labour Department did
>> not take any action and at last we had to return back empty
>> handed. Shri R.S Chaurasia, Chairperson of BBA, said in this
>> context “This happened because of the inefficient attitude
>> of the administration but our activists will continue this
>> movement against those who are responsible for creating this
>> kind of inhuman situation unless all rescued children are
>> rescued in that area
>> Now we are going to file complain to the appropriate
>> authority to take proper action against who interrupted the
>> official work by sustaining the rescue operation and
>> forcibly taking away the freed children and thus registering
>> cases for kidnapping/ abduction for purpose of slavery
>> (Sec.367 IPC), obtaining possession of a minor for an
>> illegal/immoral purpose of child labour (Sec. 373 IPC),
>> Criminal Assault, obstructing and assaulting a public
>> servant from doing his/her duty (Sec. 186, 189 IPC),
>> Criminal Intimidation and threat of grievous hurt or death
>> (Sec. 506), Criminal Conspiracy etc.
>>
>> http://www.bba.org.in/news/011110.php
>>
>> Also see:
>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Mob-forces-rescued-kids-to-return/articleshow/6861743.cms
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mcrc_jamia_alumni/
>>
>> <*> Your email settings:
>>     Individual Email | Traditional
>>
>> <*> To change settings online go to:
>>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mcrc_jamia_alumni/join
>>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>>
>> <*> To change settings via email:
>>     mcrc_jamia_alumni-digest at yahoogroups.com
>>
>>     mcrc_jamia_alumni-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com
>>
>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
>> to:
>>     mcrc_jamia_alumni-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>>
>> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 14:56:39 +0530
> From: Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
> To: reader-list <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR
> 	INDEPENDENCE
> Message-ID:
> 	<AANLkTimGga6gJb_DoVhn8rXUOSYfGNYR9c1aV+BrQmkf at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> dear Samvit
>
> repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time,
> just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and
> your like minded friends are reacting.
>
> yes,  it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some
> propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has
> used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the
> history of Radio of those days.
>
> i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99
> percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there.
> you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day
> light, not night, right
>
> so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment, or
> what ?
>
> The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should
> see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and
> how can you reverse that.?
>
> let us get real, and look serious in our arguments,
> with love
> is
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit <samvitr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Inder,
>> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not
>> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of this
>> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict others
>> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send
>> spam.
>> This kind of behavior is very juvenile.
>> -SR
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a
>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95
>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>>
>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a
>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95
>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>>
>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a
>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95
>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>>
>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a
>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95
>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>>
>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a
>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95
>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>>
>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of a
>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and 95
>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu
>>> > 4fA
>>> >
>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010
>>> >
>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian and
>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end
>>> > unrest
>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday.
>>> >
>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent survey
>>> > found
>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour
>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir.
>>> >
>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the
>>> > sub-continent
>>> > in
>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should
>>> > belong
>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full.
>>> >
>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite
>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the
>>> > survey,
>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank.
>>> >
>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess the
>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) -- the de
>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations.
>>> >
>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments?
>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said.
>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on how
>>> > they
>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a constant
>>> > source
>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of Indian
>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one percent.
>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted a
>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes".
>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the eruption
>>> > of
>>> > the insurgency in 1989.
>>> >
>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir,
>>> > but
>>> > a
>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence.
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________
>>> > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>> > Critiques & Collaborations
>>> > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>> > subscribe in the subject header.
>>> > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>> > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
>>> _________________________________________
>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.
>>> Critiques & Collaborations
>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with
>>> subscribe in the subject header.
>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> http://indersalim.livejournal.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> reader-list mailing list
> reader-list at sarai.net
> https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list
>
>
> End of reader-list Digest, Vol 88, Issue 30
> *******************************************
>