[Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE

Mon Nov 8 23:34:21 IST 2010

Well Dear Bipin
Quite boring
but

Why Oct 26 1947, and not August 1947,
why Sheikh Mohd Abudllah and Nehru went to UNO

Why there is constitution of J&K,
whey was there a president and a prime minister

Why is there LOC
and what is Simla Accord,

why Govt of India is saying ' Kashmir conflict '

why is there is 0.7 million indian security, in each and every
mohalla, and not on the boarder

please answer,gently

love
is

On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 3:53 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
> Dear Inder,
>
> Maharaja Hari Singh, the then king of Kashmir, signed the instrument of accession on October 26, 1947 to remain with India. Same way as other kingdom of India did at that time. It was purely natural process and nothing un-natural in it.
>
> Separatists and few others themselves choose complete alienation by freedom movement. When you are demanding freedom by any means and if India accepts it than you must respect and consider the views of other parts of J&K (Jammu/Ladakh) naturally not at all with the separatists movement. So, to achieve what you want, you have to become alienated in your state and go ahead further.
>
> Thanks
> Bipin Trivedi
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 11:49 PM
> To: reader-list
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR INDEPENDENCE
>
> Dear Lalit
>
> see, does it make any difference by adding Bar-e islam with Azadi.
> do u see Islam as a scar on their foreheads , i dont see, in spite of
> the fact that i am not a believer , but i respect the sentiments of
> the other, be it Hindu or Sikh or what ever
>
> and how will you chase the entire kashmiri population to Tora Bora.
> and how do you think that those caves belong to Muslims there, my dear
> they will be sooner or later occupied by Americans-Chinese and
> Pakistanis
>  it will be a different world after some time. Very deep and dangerous
> things are happening and believe me, you will support this resistance
> that time, if we both are alive.
>
> What happened to KP community was tragic, most sad and i dont see any
> way out to that problem, if  you aim to resolve that by mixing it with
> Indian Nationalism, it is a log jam.
>
> . I believe, KP will best serve their cultural moorings by restoring
> links with their KM's back in the valley.
> it would be again sad to provoke KMs and make them more indifferent to
> anything which has a Pandit tag in the valley. KPs need to realize the
> priority, is it Indian Nationalism or their Language/cutlure or even
> returning back to homes. I would love to see the later restored at the
> cost of former
>
> well,  dear Bipin, i would love to see Kashmir as part of India if it
> happens very naturally.
> but has it since 1947.
>
> Kashmir was part of India in the past so was India part of Central
> Asia, and vice versa. History is history, Alexandra once annexed large
> part of India with his empire,
>
> Recent history tells me that that Kashmir was annexed by Akbar by
> killing Yousuf Shah Check and since then it a part of India. Even
> British thought it far and costly affair to maintain, and so sold it.
>
> What is your solution to the present mess, complete alienation?
>
> Army ?
>
> love
> is
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Lalit Ambardar
> <lalitambardar at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Obliterate the proponents of 'azadi -bara -e- Islam' ( freedom through/for
>> Islam) & you will realise that Kashmir was always part of India.It is not a
>> dream,Kashmiri Muslims themselves will chase these 'azadi' pedllers to the
>> caves of Tora Bora....it is only a matter of time.
>> Rgds all
>> LA
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:41:01 +0530
>>> From: indersalim at gmail.com
>>> To: reader-list at sarai.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR
>>> INDEPENDENCE
>>>
>>> Dear Bipin
>>>
>>> you dont answer me,
>>>
>>> how you as Indian nationalist dream to hold Kashmir as part of India
>>> without the presence of Army ?
>>>
>>>
>>> please answer
>>>
>>> but with love
>>> is
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
>>> > Dear Inder,
>>> >
>>> > Good dream keep it up. But will you succeed? You have didn't reply me
>>> > sending again bellow.
>>> >
>>> > So, those who supports for Kashmir valley independence and agitating
>>> > constantly for it have to divert at the first stage their agitation to
>>> > divide Kashmir valley as separate state else their movement is of no use and
>>> > will not get any result for the years. If they have taken for granted that
>>> > their agitation supported by entire J&K then they are fool. So, agitate
>>> > first in the proper direction.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> > Bipin Trivedi
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net
>>> > [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim
>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 10:24 PM
>>> > To: reader-list
>>> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR
>>> > INDEPENDENCE
>>> >
>>> > Dear Bipin
>>> >
>>> > it is 100 per cent
>>> > i thought of giving you some concession of 00.01 percent, but it does
>>> > not work
>>> >
>>> > what can one do?
>>> >
>>> > love in any case
>>> >
>>> > is
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> 99.99 of Kashmir valley against Indian presence there? Good day
>>> >> dream..............keep it up
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net
>>> >> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net] On Behalf Of Inder Salim
>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 2:57 PM
>>> >> To: reader-list
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] KASHMIR SURVEY FINDS NO MAJORITY FOR
>>> >> INDEPENDENCE
>>> >>
>>> >> dear Samvit
>>> >>
>>> >> repeating the same para , it was on purpose, and it did it first time,
>>> >> just to see its effect on friends on the list, and you can see you and
>>> >> your like minded friends are reacting.
>>> >>
>>> >> yes,  it indeed provokes, so it is confirmed that when we use some
>>> >> propoganda repeatedly it does create some impact. Govt of India has
>>> >> used these tools in kashsmir, so has Govt of Pakistan, if you know the
>>> >> history of Radio of those days.
>>> >>
>>> >> i am not too fond of these surveys, but this is confirmed that 99.99
>>> >> percent people in kashmir valley are against Indian presence there.
>>> >> you may say otherwise, but if the day is day, we need to say it is day
>>> >> light, not night, right
>>> >>
>>> >> so what is your approach to that, Indian Army to quell that sentiment,
>>> >> or what ?
>>> >>
>>> >> The new politics of Kashmir valley is very profound, and you should
>>> >> see reflection of that in FB, how deep the pro azadi sentiment is, and
>>> >> how can you reverse that.?
>>> >>
>>> >> let us get real, and look serious in our arguments,
>>> >> with love
>>> >> is
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Samvit <samvitr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>> Inder,
>>> >>> can you stop repeating the same paragraph again and again. I do not
>>> >>> understand what kind of behavior this is. You are making a mockery of
>>> >>> this
>>> >>> forum. You have every right to put forth your views and contradict
>>> >>> others
>>> >>> but that does not mean you stoop to such levels that you have to send
>>> >>> spam.
>>> >>> This kind of behavior is very juvenile.
>>> >>> -SR
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Inder Salim <indersalim at gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and
>>> >>>> > 95
>>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and
>>> >>>> > 95
>>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and
>>> >>>> > 95
>>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and
>>> >>>> > 95
>>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and
>>> >>>> > 95
>>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> In the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, which has been at the heart of
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> > 20-year-old insurgency against Indian rule, between 74 percent and
>>> >>>> > 95
>>> >>>> > percent respondents favoured independent Kashmir.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i_ynr0-yXCshxv0x802hR9DLu
>>> >>>> > 4fA
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > (AFP) - May 27, 2010
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > SRINAGAR, India - Less than half of residents in both the Indian
>>> >>>> > and
>>> >>>> > Pakistani zones of Kashmir favour independence as a solution to end
>>> >>>> > unrest
>>> >>>> > in the disputed Himalayan region, a survey said Thursday.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Conducted by British academic Robert Bradnock, the independent
>>> >>>> > survey
>>> >>>> > found
>>> >>>> > that 44 percent of people in Pakistani-administered Kashmir favour
>>> >>>> > independence, and 43 percent in Indian-administered Kashmir.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > United Nations resolutions soon after the partition of the
>>> >>>> > sub-continent
>>> >>>> > in
>>> >>>> > 1947 called for a plebiscite to determine whether the region should
>>> >>>> > belong
>>> >>>> > to India or Pakistan, both of which claim Kashmir in full.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > "These results support the already widespread view that the
>>> >>>> > plebiscite
>>> >>>> > options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute," said the
>>> >>>> > survey,
>>> >>>> > which was released by the London-based Chatham House think-tank.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Titled "Kashmir: Paths to Peace", it was a rare attempt to assess
>>> >>>> > the
>>> >>>> > opinions of people on both sides of the Line of Control (LOC) --
>>> >>>> > the de
>>> >>>> > facto border that splits the region between the two rival nations.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > "Any solution will depend on the Indian and Pakistani governments?
>>> >>>> > commitment to achieving a permanent settlement," Bradnock said.
>>> >>>> > The survey interviewed about 3,800 people to record their views on
>>> >>>> > how
>>> >>>> > they
>>> >>>> > saw the future of Kashmir -- a scenic region that has been a
>>> >>>> > constant
>>> >>>> > source
>>> >>>> > of tension between India and Pakistan.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > But in the Hindu-dominated Jammu region -- which is also part of
>>> >>>> > Indian
>>> >>>> > Kashmir -- support for independence dwindled to less than one
>>> >>>> > percent.
>>> >>>> > The survey found that the "overwhelming majority" of people wanted
>>> >>>> > a
>>> >>>> > solution to the dispute, even though there were no "simple fixes".
>>> >>>> > More than 47,000 people have died in Indian Kashmir since the
>>> >>>> > eruption
>>> >>>> > of
>>> >>>> > the insurgency in 1989.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over
>>> >>>> > Kashmir, but
>>> >>>> > a
>>> >>>> > recent peace process has brought a reduction in violence.
>>> >>>> >
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>
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