[Reader-list] Fw: Re: Why Kashmir defies solutions

Inder Salim indersalim at gmail.com
Tue Sep 7 19:59:30 IST 2010 

if suddenly Govt of J&K invites applications for 3000 Molvies in
Kashmir for teaching Quran, i dont think 60000 applications would be
there, because there are not many qualified Moulvies in kashmir unlike
Bihar/UP ( who interestingly find some work in kashmir, not for love
of Islam but for bread and butter  )  but that does not mean Kashmiris
would not like to be Govt Moulvies

A job is a job is a job, we may respect the desire to earn to live.
Whatever that be....
 The J&K police tag will not be a stigma to any new recruit in
kashmir, because people know how to value two square meals.
Agricultural base in kashmir is not strong to sustain most of the
families, and they need some support base. We all do jobs, whether we
like it or not... let us respect all those who seek jobs....

If the Kashmir situation continues like that, the Govt would find it
difficult to deal with people in coming years.

that is the discourse, perhaps, which we may continue with...


love
is




On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 7:32 PM, SJabbar <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why does questioning a phenomena be interpreted as mocking or being
> judgmental? You say, 'The maxim of the actors are always far more
>> complicated and illegible
> than the judgement of the spectator.
> '
>
> So the spectator must suspend judgment, must not question?  Then why do you
> question when the state acts within its 'iron frame' inherited from the ICS?
> Mysterious motives must also drive the one who drives you mad by telling you
> he can't find your file or that you must pay a bribe to get a copy of the
> challan which you thought due to you.
>
>
>
>
> On 07/09/10 7:21 PM, "Jeebesh" <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
>
>> The so called iron frame of indian bureaucracy is produced by ICS
> officers.
>> It was more than getting on with life :)
>
> On Kashmir i understand very little
>> to be able to comment. But some
> comments seem to mock the people who are
>> trying to articulate
> something substantial. A little caution   about
>> interpreting quickly.
> The maxim of the actors are always far more
>> complicated and illegible
> than the judgement of the spectator.
>
> On
>> 07-Sep-10, at 6:32 PM, SJabbar wrote:
>
>> Did they?  Or did they do what most
>> people do, make their peace with
>> the new
>> dispensation and get on with
>> life.
>>
>> The point is to understand how it is that a phenomena like 60,000
>>
>> young men
>> applying for 3,000 jobs can happen in the midst of what people
>> are
>> describing as a revolution. Can it be that they don't see the J&K
>>
>> Police as
>> an abhorrent force?  Can it be that they are the relatives of men
>>
>> who are
>> already in the JKP?  Can it be that they don't subscribe to
>> azadi?
>> And how
>> do the families of tens of thousands of men who are in
>> the JKP and
>> JAKLI see
>> their kin?
>>
>> Another puzzling matter:  we speak
>> of the AFSPA and its revocation
>> but the
>> JKP is not protected by the Act.
>> And one more thing: the army, that
>> has
>> been responsible for the worst
>> human rights abuses in the last 2
>> decades is
>> not targeted by the
>> stone-pelters.  They continue their work of
>> patrolling
>> and cordon &
>> search operations as if they live on another planet.
>> The target
>> is
>> always the JKP.
>>
>>
>> On 07/09/10 6:06 PM, "Jeebesh" <jeebesh at sarai.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> agreed. but how come they all became unquestionable nationalists
>>
>>> after
>>>
>> 1947?
>>
>> On 07-Sep-10, at 5:41 PM, SJabbar wrote:
>>
>>> You're
>> right Jeebesh, and
>>> most people who were recruited were
>>> absolutely
>>>
>> loyal to the British
>>> Empire and deeply suspicious of the Congress.
>>> And
>> why
>>> just speak of the
>>> 20th c. ? In 1857 the country was deeply
>> divided
>>> and very
>>> few at the
>>> time articulated it as a 'war for
>> independence.'  It
>>> would be
>>> foolish to
>>> say that those who served the
>> British Empire were closet
>>> nationalists forced
>>> into furthering their
>> careers by joining the
>>> army or
>>> ICS.
>>>
>>>
>>> On
>>> 07/09/10 5:22 PM,
>> "Jeebesh" <jeebesh at sarai.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> recruitment in
>>> indian
>> subcontinent during the ww1 and ww2 for jobs in
>>> the
>>>> british army
>>> was
>> very high. what did this say about the aspiration
>>> and lives
>>>> being
>> led
>>> at that time in the sub continent. do we even
>>> count that number
>>>>
>> today in
>>> discussing 20s, 30s, 40s, in the sub
>>> continent?
>>>
>>> On
>> 07-Sep-10, at
>>>> 2:10
>>> PM, SJabbar wrote:
>>>
>>>> But Gowhar, what happens
>> when a man who hitherto
>>>>
>>> abhors an
>>>> institution joins
>>>> it? What
>> happens to that extreme emotion
>>>>
>>> when the line is crossed,
>>>> when
>> the
>>>> uniform is donned, when the
>>> 'danda'
>>>> drops firmly into his
>> hands?
>>>> By your logic all those who joined
>>> the force
>>>> post-1990 once
>> abhorred
>>>> the
>>>> institution and now have become
>>> the
>>>> oppressors.
>> And those who pelt
>>>> stones
>>>> at the oppressors now want
>>> to
>>>> join
>> the same hated institution only
>>>> to become
>>>> future oppressors?
>>>
>> Not
>>>> one, not two but 60,000 young men?  You may
>>>> understand this, but
>> I
>>> have to
>>>> tell you, it's left me totally
>>>> perplexed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On
>> 07/09/10
>>> 1:58 PM,
>>>> "gowhar fazli" <gowharfazili at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I don't
>>> like the heading
>>>> "Why Kashmir
>>>>> defies
>> solutions".
>>>>>
>>>>> It is in
>>>>>>
>>> these moments that the
>>>> real
>> desperation and loss
>>>>> of self of Kashmiris
>>> as a
>>>>>> people
>> becomes
>>>> evident. For
>>>>> livelihood they have to stoop
>>> before the
>> same
>>>>>>
>>>> institutions
>>>>> that torment them or that they abhor
>>> for
>> obvious
>>>> reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>>> This contradiction that runs through their
>>>
>> very selves,
>>>>>
>>>> prevents people
>>>>>> from acquiring a full blown
>>>
>> human-hood.
>>>>>
>>>>> There should
>>>> be no guilt or
>>>>>> indignity
>> associated
>>> with
>>>>> acquiring of livelihood
>>>> through legitimate
>> means,
>>>>>> but
>>> this
>>>>> is the case one way or the other,
>>>> for most
>> people in
>>>>>
>>> Kashmir.
>>>>>> The boundaries between legitimate and
>>>>
>> illegitimate
>>>>> are
>>> dizzyingly fuzzy
>>>>>> because of the manner in which
>> the
>>>>>
>>>> selves are
>>> split.
>>>>>
>>>>> If not for any
>>>>>> other but for
>> the indignities
>>>> involved
>>> in
>>>>> the status quo that Kashmir
>> issue
>>>>>> should be resolved for
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> good.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Tue,
>> 9/7/10, SJabbar
>>>>>> <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> From: SJabbar
>>>>>> <sonia.jabbar at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject:
>>>>
>>>
>> [Reader-list] Why Kashmir defies
>>>>>> solutions
>>>>>> To: "Sarai"
>>>>
>>>
>> <reader-list at sarai.net>
>>>>>> Date: Tuesday,
>>>>>> September 7, 2010, 10:19
>>>
>> AM
>>>>>>
>>>> Printed from
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Khaki enemy? 60,000
>>>>>> Kashmiris
>> apply for
>>> 3,000
>>>> police
>>>>> jobs
>>>>>> M Saleem Pandit, TNN, Sep
>> 7,
>>>>>> 2010, 01.30am
>>> IST
>>>>>>
>>>> SRINAGAR: Despite reports of
>> desertions in its ranks
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> and
>>>>>> threats of
>>>> social
>>>>>>
>> boycott, J&K police has emerged as a big
>>> draw
>>>>>> for
>>>>>
>> young
>>>>>>
>>>> job hunters in
>>>>>> employment-starved
>>> Kashmir. Ignoring
>> calls
>>>>>> by
>>>>>
>>>> hardliners to
>>>>>> shun the khaki
>>>>>>
>>> force,
>> nearly 60,000 men applied
>>>>>> for
>>>> less than 3,000
>>>>> jobs
>>>>>> in
>>>
>> J&K police --
>>>>>> about 200 applicants for
>>>>>>
>>>> one constable's
>>>
>> post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The applications piled up over the last few
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> months,
>>>>> about
>>>>>> the time when the
>>>>>> situation in the Valley
>>>
>> appeared
>>>> to
>>>>>> be spinning out
>>>>> of
>>>>>> control with the
>> cops
>>>>>>
>>> particularly being
>>>> at the
>>>>>> receiving end of public
>>>>>
>> wrath.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> J&K police DG Kuldeep
>>>> Khoda said
>>>>>> the
>> department
>>>>> has
>>>>>> received
>>> 58,975
>>>>>> applications,
>>>> against
>> 2,786
>>>>>> vacancies across the
>>>>>
>>> Valley.
>>>>>> "The response
>> from
>>>>>>
>>>> (the worst-hit)
>>>>>> Srinagar and
>>> Budgam districts was
>> even
>>>>> more
>>>>>>
>>>> heartening," he
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>
>>> "We've received
>> 2,860 applications, against
>>>> 529
>>>>> posts
>>>>>> in
>>>
>> Srinagar
>>>>>>
>>>>>> district, while 8053 against 283 in
>>>> Budgam," he
>>>
>> said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lack of jobs
>>>>>> has been a big spur for the
>>>>
>> protests
>>>>>
>>> that
>>>>>> brought thousands of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> young educated
>> men on to the
>>>>
>>> streets. Official
>>>>> estimates of
>>>>>> the
>> number
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> unemployed in
>>> the
>>>> Valley stands at 3
>> lakhs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Khoda told
>>>>>> reporters the
>>> department held
>>>>
>> a
>>>>> recruitment
>>>>>> rally in Baramulla
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> district in July
>> and was
>>>> overwhelmed with the
>>>>> response.
>>>>>> "Over
>>> 8,000
>>>>>>
>> people
>>>>>> turned up for
>>>> 412 posts despite turmoil in the
>>>>>
>>>
>> district,"
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> said, and added
>>>>>>
>>>> that even stone-pelters
>>>
>> attended the rally. He said
>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> department
>>>> was
>>>>>>
>> mulling
>>> more on-the-spot recruitment drives
>>>>>> across
>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> Valley,
>>> particularly
>>>>>> in Srinagar's downtown area to end
>>>>>>
>> the
>>>>
>>> unrest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The top cop rubbished reports on desertions
>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> insubordination. He claimed
>>>>>> no police personnel
>> had quit since
>>>>
>>> mid-June
>>>>>> when
>>>>> Kashmir
>>>>>> erupted in
>> anger
>>>>>> against the
>>> alleged
>>>> staged encounter
>>>>>> of three
>> north
>>>>> Kashmir
>>>>>> youth and
>>> a
>>>>>> 17-year-old
>>>> boy's killing
>> in
>>>>>> police action. Over 60
>>>>>
>>> people,
>>>>>> including
>> women
>>>>>>
>>>> and children, have
>>>>>> died in police
>>> firing on
>>>>>
>> protesters
>>>>>> since
>>>> then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> State
>>>>>> government
>>> sources
>> said J&K CM Omar
>>>>> Abdullah,
>>>> who
>>>>>> has called for a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>> proactive approach including the phased
>>>> revocation of
>>>>>
>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> controversial
>>>>>> Armed Forces Special Forces Act
>>>> to
>> deal with
>>> street
>>>>>>
>>>>>> protests, has ordered
>>>>>> creation of more
>> police
>>>> jobs to
>>> induct youth from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> troubled
>> areas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, in
>>>> its
>>> ongoing drive to reach out
>>>>>>
>> to the
>>>>> people,
>>>>>> Kashmir range
>>>>>>
>>> IGP
>>>> Kashmir, S M Sahai,
>> attended
>>>>>> police-public
>>>>> meetings in
>>>>>>
>>> Ganderbal
>>>> and
>>>>>>
>> Budgam districts. "At
>>>>>> Ganderbal District Police
>>>>>
>>> Lines,
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> around 300 people
>>>>>> including senior
>>>>>> citizens and
>>> sarpanchs
>>>>
>> participated,"
>>>>> a
>>>>>> police spokesman
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> "Sahai
>>>
>> assured the
>>>> people that police will
>>>>> adopt
>>>>>> maximum
>>>
>> restraint
>>>>>>
>>>>>> while dealing
>>>> with law and order
>>>
>> situations."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> _________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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