[Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT"

[Bipin Trivedi]

Sorry to tell  Partha, but what a rubbish statement “Pak involved or not
involved
..does it matter” 

Since years for all the terrorists death Pak is the main culprit and totally
responsible for all these death for which you, me and we all are worried. By
this statement you try to give clean chit to Pak indirectly.

By mentioning dying Hindu/Muslim/Christian are dying, you yourself make
casteism. Instead you would have written human beings are dying.

Thanks
Bipin Trivedi



From: Partha Dasgupta [mailto:parthaekka at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 10:15 PM
To: Rakesh Iyer
Cc: Bipin Trivedi; sarai-list
Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to
26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT"

Let us say that Pakistan is involved, or not involved...

Does it matter ? People are dying... Hindu and Muslim and Christian... Rs 20
above and below. And when a father or a mother dies, the child cries
orphaned. That's all that matters. Are all we so lost that we can see
nothing but caste or the size of the wallet?

That's SICK

Partha Dasgupta
+919811047132

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:04 PM, Rakesh Iyer <rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com>
wrote:
Dear Bipin ji

Even a middle class man in India today is a part of the elite since it in
itself is very painful to become a middle class person in a country where
77% of the population earns less than Rs. 20 per day.

For once, Salman is right that it's the elite which got more focus than the
poor during the attacks. The migrants from Bihar got less attention than the
elites on the Taj.

The problem is not that Salman has said that. The problem is that Salman
says Pakistan is not at all involved in the attack. And I have my doubts on
that.


Rakesh

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:

> Can you tell what you believe to become rich. You might be keeping
> politicians in mind who become elite by mal practices.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net]
> On Behalf Of Inder Salim
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:42 PM
> To: reader-list
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to
> 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT"
>
> Dear Bipin sahib
>
> "Man becomes rich with our own
> > intellectual hard work along with destiny."
>
> it a very naive position , but it is a typical  "middle class man" in
> India who believe so.
>
> best wishes, keep it up
>
> best
> is
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in> wrote:
> > Dear Pheeta,
> >
> > Neither I am elite nor fallen in  news trap. I am middle class man.
> >
> > At first place I have objected about the Salman statement timings since
> he
> > has his selfish motto behind this statement and Salman is also elite
> only.
> > Even this news/statement got hype because the celebrity and elite like
> > Salman spoke it, don’t you think so?
> >
> > Is it wrong to become wealthy or elite? Why you against the elite? To
> become
> > rich is everyone dream is it not yours? Man becomes rich with our own
> > intellectual hard work along with destiny.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bipin Trivedi
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Pheeta Ram [mailto:pheeta.ram at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 11:45 AM
> > To: Bipin Trivedi
> > Cc: sarai-list
> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to
> > 26/11 because THE ELITE WERE HIT"
> >
> > Dear Tapas
> >
> > As far as i know, 'majma' is a hindustani word for a gathering of
people.
> I
> > was using it more in the colloquial sense of 'tamashbeen' which, i
think,
> > means bunch of people who gather to watch some curious spectacle or
event
> or
> > for the audience of a performance of 'tamasha' [a Marathi folk art
form].
> > Some such scene prevailed in the vicinity of the Taj on that evening of
> 20th
> > November. You could easily read the horror on the faces of Mumbai elites
> > some of whom were visiting in their imported cars. You could contrast it
> > with the jubilation on the faces of street vendors. This jubilation was
> > cathartic, i believe.
> >
> > Dear Bipin
> >
> > After having read your response,i believe its 'either'-'or'-'both'
> situation
> > with respect to you: either, you are an elite yourself (self-imagined or
> > otherwise) or, you have fallen in the very trap that the Delhi times has
> > laid out for innocent souls to fall in; or both are applicable in your
> case.
> > That is the very reason i had underscored the word "overreacted" in my
> post
> > particularly. The editor at the TOI office, who gave such a clever turn
> to
> > the headline by inserting this word [though 'reacted' is there in
> Salman's
> > statement] should be specially awarded the Ramnath Goenka Excellence in
> > Journalism award for being a pastmaster in propaganda. Also, let us not
> > overlook the fact that the word "overreacted" has overbearing family
> > resemblances with "over-hyped." There is no comparing  the loss of human
> > life. The idea is to hammer a point to the home of elites: "heads must
> begin
> > to roll" [to use a phrase much in currency during that time in the News
> > Channel studios] because the pleasure palaces of the elites had come
> under
> > attack for the first time. Those who have a taste for headlines will
> > remember this international post 9/11 headline: TERROR COMES HOME. This
> is
> > one of the best headlines i have ever come across. Just imagine its
> impact
> > in the hearts of the residents of the first-world who consume 250 times
> more
> > energy than their third-world counterparts and pollute the earth 250
> times
> > more. In their heart of hearts they knew that all their pleasures were
> being
> > paid for with the blood of the third-world poor. That was the moment of
> > reckoning: that cold touch of the 'real'.
> >
> > The question of "Why now?" is no question at all. We are quite used to
> such
> > gimmicks by now and needn't trouble binaries uselessly. I am just trying
> to
> > look at the entire issue through the lens of class and trying to refuse
> the
> > temptation of hairsplitting (may be, such fineries are beyond my
> > constitution). The people who do our share of thinking for us are fully
> > justified when they fail to raise such issues; can you lift yourself by
> your
> > shoelaces? No, we know. The entire struggle of the elite ruling class is
> > against getting eaten up by itself, such is the nature of its
parasitism.
> > Don't forget: our stomach begins consuming itself when it doesn't get
any
> > supply of food. The entire effort of the popular entertainment run by
the
> > elites is to sublimate, channelise and diffuse the 'class hatred'
> simmering
> > in the hearts of the poor and the dispossessed because it is this class
> > hatred which constitutes the stuff revolutions are made of!
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Pheeta
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> wrote:
> > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just
> because
> > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up.
> We've
> > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one
> stood
> > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because
> > they were scared for their own lives."
> > Why Salman suddenly giving such statement now after about 2 years and
> that
> > also to Pak journalist and this also before he want to release his
> picture
> > Dabang in the Pak? He just want the publicity for his movie nothing else
> and
> > there is no any honest intention towards any earlier terrorist victim
not
> > getting hype compared to this attack.
> >
> > It is absolutely wrong to say that 26/11 attack was hyped much more
since
> > the Taj/Oberoi hotel attacked. It was hyped much more since terrorist
> attack
> > was of high impact. It was lasted for more than 48 hours, much more
> people
> > were died/injured compared to other attacks like simple bomb blasts of
> > towns/cities where casualties was negligible or rather nil. Earlier
> Mumbai
> > train bomb blasts also was hyped much more due to their more casualties
> > where lower class people where victim. Similarly, parliament attack and
> red
> > fort attack, where casualties were not there but got hyped due to their
> > stature. During the 26/11 attack media covered CST station news also and
> > showing repeatedly. One should not forget that CST station coverage of
> CCTV
> > was the key evidence in the court and this was shown by all the media
> > regularly.
> >
> > Any unknown place and not 5 star hotels where 26/11 like attack took
> place
> > lasted for this much time and impact would have got this much hype only.
> So,
> > the analysis itself is wrong that it got hyped due to 5 star hotel were
> > attacked.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bipin Trivedi
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:
> reader-list-bounces at sarai.net]
> > On Behalf Of Pheeta Ram
> > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 8:34 AM
> > To: sarai list
> > Subject: [Reader-list] "Salman tells Pak channel, we overreacted to
26/11
> > because THE ELITE WERE HIT"
> >
> > It made for an interesting headline on the front-page of the Delhi
Times,
> > but spot-on! I happened to be in front of the Taj hotel in Mumbai on the
> > 29th of November, marveling at the majma that had assembled in front of
> the
> > hotel that had been under attack two days before. Though the insides of
> the
> > hotel had been put off limits for the general public, during the day, i
> came
> > to know of the next day, a filmmaker and Deshmukh and co. had visited it
> on
> > a broad daylight jaunt. Terminally allergic to khandani elites and
> > elites-in-the-making, i decided to find out what the street hawkers had
> to
> > say about the Taj and all the tamasha around it: "Pehli baar amir log
> mare
> > hain. Tabhi itna halla ho raha hai. CST wallon ko koi nahin pooch raha
> hai.
> > Sab photo waale yahin par aaye hain.... Jo bhai Commando sab Taj walon
ko
> > bacha kar gaye hain, wo kabhi yahan ki chaye [tea] bhi nahi kharid
> sakenge."
> > I was surprised to hear from a fellow brother what i was feeling then
but
> > unable to articulate. Very surprisingly, despite being an elite himself,
> > Salman Khan voiced similar sentiments yesterday which have made
headlines
> > today in many newspapers.
> >
> > My making the Delhi Times headline the subject of this mail has one
> another
> > purpose: to highlight an observation regarding the 'politics' of the
> Times
> > of India. Everybody knows that TOI is the front organ of the ruling
> > establishment, so my observation shouldn't strike as a surprise to
> anybody.
> > Just read Salman's statement given in the Delhi Times itself: " Just
> because
> > this time the Taj, the Oberoi were under attack, everybody stood up.
> We've
> > had bomb blasts in trains, in small towns, but no one reacted, no one
> stood
> > up.... Why now? The people who suddenly woke up were speaking up because
> > they were scared for their own lives." Now compare this with the text of
> the
> > headline; i would like to underscore the word "overreacted"
particularly,
> > which to my mind, makes all the difference. I don't think i need to
> labour
> > more to make my point.
> >
> > After the Mumbai attacks, suddenly a hotel was made up as the 'national
> > icon'. I won't be surprised if the coming generations would identify the
> Taj
> > hotel as one of the wonders of the world instead of the Taj at Agra.
Some
> > time back a young aspiring researcher, with the alacrity and politeness
> so
> > characteristic of her tribe, had reacted to my untimely suggestion (that
> the
> > issue of "Dilli vs Delhi" was primarily a class issue and that there was
> > curious politics behind the demise of the concept of 'class' ) saying
> that
> > it was impossible to class-ify society in neat categories any longer as
> > things had become very complicated and hence uselessness of the concept
> of
> > 'class'. I believe, it is the 'intent' and not the 'nature' of things
> around
> > us that makes the difference. Is there something that is goading us to
> reach
> > the conclusion? Which class do we belong to now? Which class we used to
> > belong to before? Which class my parents and their parents before them
> > belonged to? Which class do i identify with? Which class do i aspire to
> > identify with? These are some of the questions which strike me when i
> begin
> > to rethink about the issue of class-ification of contemporary society
and
> of
> > the people who overly stress of its very impossibility.  (My guru used
to
> > tell me: "ki bhayya pheeta, do hi class hoti hain, ek jo roti ke waaste
> > kamaati hai aur doosri wo jo majaa marne ke liye munaafe ki roti chakhti
> > hai.")
> >
> > People who are intent on reaching a conclusion, on making a 'just' point
> > (which the maze of contemporary category confusions render impossible)
> would
> > strategically deploy these categories rather than treating them as junk
> from
> > a forgettable past. Surprisingly, the concept of 'strategic
essentialism'
> > comes from one of the elites of the academia itself, the tribe i intend
> to
> > criti-size ( and not critique). It is a point not very uncommonly
> > observable, that people who run their shop in the academia, must always
> > employ themselves in the business of deferring just conclusions.
> Anything,
> > any interpretation, that would defer the 'judgement day' is welcome. It
> is
> > the 'aesthetics of deferral' that distinguishes the world of an academic
> > from the world of an activist  which is solely defined by the 'ethics of
> > arrival'. It also explains the phenomenon of a sudden proliferation in
> new
> > scintillating categories in prodigious numbers in the later half of the
> 20th
> > century. So one fine evening, if you, by your god's grace, find yourself
> in
> > a seminar hall full of creatures from academia, just try to grab their
> > 'conclusions' and the points that drive them to them. Savour each and
> every
> > turn of phrase, every other word that at once remind you of your sumo
> > dictionary, every other sentence that slips from your grasp like a jelly
> > fish. The fun would not be in discovering the Emperor naked but in
> finding
> > that "is hamaam main to tamaam nange hain!"
> >
> > My sincere apologies for hastening the con-clusion.
> >
> > Pheeta Ram
> > _________________________________________
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> >
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>
> --
>
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