[Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir
Shuddhabrata Sengupta
shuddha at sarai.net
Tue Sep 21 01:22:27 IST 2010
Dear Bipin Trivedi,
Once again, I appeal to you to not continue to embarass us with your
ignorance.
Amnesty International and several other such organizations, such as
Human Right Watch, have consistently opposed the United States'
conduct of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Amnesty routinely takes up
the causes of prisoners illegaly detained by the US military in
Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, as well as detenus (of all kinds) in the
prison system within the United States. Amnesty has a limited
mandate, to monitor and campaign against human rights violations.
That is its job and that is what it does. To accuse it of 'not acting
against the war in Iraq' is a bit like asking a neuro surgen why he
is not working on a cure against lung cancer. It acts against those
dimensions of the conduct of the war in Iraq that concern the
specific human rights violations of combatants and non-combatants
that arise out of the conduct of the war.There are other
organizations that are committed to opposing the war in general.
They, for instance do not concern themselves with specific human
rights questions in the way that Amnesty does. This is only sensible,
as there is only so much that an organization given the limitations
of time and resources can afford to do.
For your information. Amnesty does not appeal to governments alone.
It asks insurgents as much as governments to respect human rights. It
condemns all forms of capital punishment and torture, as well as
'extra-judicial killings' regardless of whether they are carried out
by the state or by non state actors.
Amnesty was amongst the first to condemn the assasination of Hriday
Nath Wanchoo, the respected Kashmiri Pandit human rights lawyer.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/ASA20/057/1992/en
An Amnesty International delegation that went to Kashmir earlier this
year, met with representatives of Kashmiri Pandits and Sikhs still
living in the Kashmir valley and took note of their concerns.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_amnesty-team-meets-kashmiri-
pandits_1385107
And recently, Amnesty International has criticised 'executions' of
captive policemen by the Communist Party of India (Maoist).
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article614211.ece
I hope this persuades you to not deliver your knee jerk reactions
that presuppose that anyone who criticizes the conduct of the Indian
state must automatically be turning a blind eye to the human rights
violations carried out by others (including those who are
antagoniststs of the Indian state.)
best
Shuddha
On 20-Sep-10, at 9:44 AM, Bipin Trivedi wrote:
> Yes, you are right Amnesty takes strong public position against
> human rights, but after the actual war took place for wrong reason.
> Amnesty International is so powerful in US and they would have
> avert the war by putting pressure on US governement. Do you think
> Amnesty so powerful does not know the false reason created for war?
> They were knowing this very much still they allowed for war that is
> what objectionable. First allow to kill the people for false reason
> and then take strong action is just ridiculous.
>
> They are advising in India for take care of human rights, but I
> have not heard about their advise to separatists or terrorists to
> stop innocent killings. If you have read this provide me the link.
>
> Thanks
> Bipin Trivedi
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shuddha at sarai.net [mailto:shuddha at sarai.net]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 10:55 PM
> To: Bipin Trivedi
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public
> Statementon Rising Deaths in Kashmir
>
> For all your informations. Amnesty International takes very strong
> public positions agasinst the human rights abuses perpetrated
> against Iraqis by US forces and indeed against human rights abuses
> within the ambit of US prisons. When Bipin Trivedi makes false
> allegations against Amnesty International on this list he only
> reveals the extent of his ignorance and arrogance.
> Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> Sender: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net
> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:43:03
> To: 'anupam chakravartty'<c.anupam at gmail.com>
> Cc: sarai-list<reader-list at sarai.net>
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public
> Statement
> on Rising Deaths in Kashmir
>
> Anupam,
>
> Of course all the Indians must worry for their territory and
> preserve their
> boundary intact, what is wrong in it. We should not ready to get
> away our
> territory for the act of few foolish people like Geelani and rogue
> Pakistan.
>
> But I am not making such stand for only territoriality of India. If
> that is
> the case than I would have not gone with that assumption even after
> achieving freedom……… I am equally worry for the Kashmiri people
> reflects in
> the statement "But after achieving freedom if you can achieve,
> people of
> Kashmir realizes that how the bitter truth is”. I am trying to
> alert the
> people that do not come in the trap of separatists just showing the
> lollipop
> of freedom without any optimistic future plan. After freedom your
> situation
> will be even worse. Please understand this. That’s all.
>
> I am talking about Amnesty dual attitude about US and others. US was
> planning for Iraq war before actual war by giving reasons that they
> possess
> chemical weapon and having terror infrastructure. Everyone knows
> that this
> was wrong reason and actual agenda is to capture their oil field.
> At that
> time why Amnesty keep mum. By their voice and if averted war than
> lot of
> life would have been saved.
>
> Thanks
> Bipin Trivedi
>
>
> From: anupam chakravartty [mailto:c.anupam at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 12:48 PM
> To: Bipin Trivedi; sarai list
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public
> Statement
> on Rising Deaths in Kashmir
>
> Bipin Trivedi
>
> Amnesty International may be flawed in its report, could you
> explain your
> comments on the collective destinies of lakhs of people ("But after
> achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir realizes
> that how
> the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of azadi, I am sure
> Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to free
> from
> separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian continent
> and if it
> happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to
> happen if
> azadi is given to Kashmiri.")? It is very clear that you care for the
> territoriality of Indian state rather than its people and their
> aspirations.
> And a question to you, in the present times, having listened to all
> those
> who are asking for freedom, those who say we will 'safeguard' your
> freedom,
> those whose voices have never been heard but it is only now that
> after so
> many years that have had to come out on the streets to negotiate
> their own
> freedoms, what should be agenda of the state trying to negotiate such
> conflicts? should the preservation of territoriality of the state
> be on the
> agenda or consider the aspirations?
>
> is territoriality an important aspect of the present times? no
> please do not
> give me a lecture on security and safety of the state and its
> people, things
> about Islamic fundamentalism. we have had our share of prison
> breaks, of
> utterly dissatisfied people (living very much under the state's
> security
> perimeter) killing their neighbours in the most cold blooded
> manner. the
> reasons have been the same: he has a bigger car than mine. i think
> the idea
> of territoriality of the state arises from such a position.
>
>
>
> Moreover, why this comparison: "Where was Amnesty International
> when US
> attacked Iraq for their own interest of capturing Oil fields?" are you
> talking about kashmir or iraq? if you can make such comparisons,
> where are
> you when half of your nuclear facilities are going to be monitored
> by the
> Americans, post the deal? is it not a question of what you call
> "internal
> matter"? My idea here was not start another debate on nuclear deal
> but a
> message to people, including commentators here to not try and
> hijack the
> issue of Kashmir by citing various comparisons with situations that
> are
> remotely connected to the issue of Kashmir. As a witness to the
> debate about
> Kashmir, the resolution lies in understanding the uniqueness of
> this issue,
> not demonstrating your knowledge about similar issues. In terms of
> content,
> it may sound very exotic, shows well informed you are but logically
> flawed.
> I am convinced that territoriality of an already sovereign state is
> not the
> correct means to analyse the aspirations of a certain group of
> persons. Even
> if we say that they might have been misled, when you are in the
> side of the
> state, you cannot afford to be in a position to assert your own
> sovereignty
> over these people who do not feel the same way. You will be
> referred to as a
> tyrant, or a bully. I am sorry but I am also an Indian, and I
> cannot see the
> foundations on which this state was formed being violated by a few
> tyrants,
> who legitimately or illegitimately call themselves as rulers. These
> are very
> personal observations from what I have read or seen or discussed in
> last one
> and a half months with some of my friends, who held similar
> positions like
> yours Bipin.
>
> Thanks
> Anupam
> On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 11:27 PM, Bipin Trivedi <aliens at dataone.in>
> wrote:
> Where was Amnesty International when US attacked Iraq for their own
> interest
> of capturing Oil fields? Don't interfere in Indian internal matter
> and don't
> advise us anything. We will handle it. How to handle, whether to
> remove
> AFSPA or not, we will decide. So Amnesty, mind your own business
> and do not
> interfere.
>
> When Protesters try to disturbed the peace, what will the forces
> do? They
> are obeying their duty to restore the peace and in that whoever
> comes in
> between has to pay the penalty. When no human rights applicable to
> protesters, terrorists than why to armed forces?
>
> Today news was aired that NC and PDP wants yet more independent
> power in
> Kashmir. Is it the solution and the things will solve? Not at all.
> Crooked
> separatist like Geelani, Miwaiz, Yasin never accept anything than
> total
> freedom. Since they are staying in India physically but by heart
> they are
> Pakistani and Pakistan never let live them other than Kashmir freedom.
>
> What have separatists plan after getting freedom. Kashmir is totally
> depending on tourism and have they thought that after Kashmir becoming
> separate state, tourism will effect heavily. Kashmir as a separate
> state
> will bankrupt financially which you could not understand since at
> present
> India spent heavily for Kashmir. So after freedom, if they think
> that Pak
> will finance than they are mistaken, since Pak is already bagging
> from US,
> how can they help? So, like Pak you have to become bagger from US.
>
> For this movement, you must have taken granted the support of Jammu
> people
> than you are mistaken. Since, I am sure Jammu people will
> definitely prefer
> to stay with India. So, first you have to agree for the division of
> state
> and then go ahead with your freedom movement restricted to valley
> only.
>
> But after achieving freedom if you can achieve, people of Kashmir
> realizes
> that how the bitter truth is. In that case after few years of
> azadi, I am
> sure Kashmiri people will start reverse agitation and urge India to
> free
> from separatist. They will agitate to join fully with Indian
> continent and
> if it happens, what will separatists do? I am sure it will going to
> happen
> if azadi is given to Kashmiri.
>
> Thanks
> Bipin Trivedi
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-
> bounces at sarai.net]
> On Behalf Of Nagraj Adve
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:26 PM
> To: Sarai; Free Binayak Sen; ecological-democracy at lists.riseup.net
> Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public
> Statement on
> Rising Deaths in Kashmir
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: gautam navlakha <gnavlakha at gmail.com>
> Date: 18 September 2010 20:24
> Subject: [pudr] Fwd: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on
> Rising
> Deaths in Kashmir
> To: activist <activist at pudr.org>, asish gupta <asishroop at gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Khurram Parvez <khurramparvez at yahoo.com>
> Date: Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 3:53 PM
> Subject: Fw: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising
> Deaths in
> Kashmir
> To: kparvez at kashmirprocess.org
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 9/17/10, iteam at amnesty.org <iteam at amnesty.org>* wrote:
>
>
> From: iteam at amnesty.org <iteam at amnesty.org>
> Subject: Amnesty International Public Statement on Rising Deaths in
> Kashmir
> To: iteam at amnesty.org
> Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 10:31 AM
>
> Dear friends
>
> Please find below a public statement about the on-going violence in
> Kashmir
>
> Best regards,
> South Asia Team
> Amnesty International
> International Secretariat
> 1 Easton Street
> London WC1X ODW
> United Kingdom
> Tel +44 (0) 20 7413 5500
> Fax +44 (0) 20 7956 1157
>
> http://www.amnesty.org
> http://www.asiapacific.amnesty.org
>
> *AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL* *
> PUBLIC STATEMENT*
>
> AI: Index: ASA20/027/2010
>
> 17 September 2010
>
> *
> India: Urgent need for Government to act as death toll rises in
> Kashmir*
>
> With an increasing death toll in protests in Kashmir, Amnesty
> International
> calls on the Indian authorities to take urgent steps to ensure
> respect for
> the right to life and to investigate past killings of demonstrators by
> police.
>
> With two more protestors shot dead today, Amnesty International
> urges the
> Indian government to immediately instruct the security forces not
> to use
> firearms against demonstrators, Security forces should use the
> minimum
> force necessary to defend themselves or others against an imminent
> threat of
> death or serious injury. They should not employ intentional lethal
> use of
> firearms except where such use is strictly unavoidable in order to
> protect
> life.
>
> Ninety-six people have been killed since June when protests broke
> out in
> Jammu and Kashmir after the killings of three young men, reportedly
> by the
> security forces, in March. The vast majority of these killings
> have been at
> the hands of police and paramilitary forces.
>
> An inquiry ordered by the authorities into 11 of the deaths by
> shooting in
> July has failed to make headway. Amnesty International renews its
> call to
> the government to initiate an independent, impartial and thorough
> investigation into all the killings. Members of the security forces
> responsible for excessive use of force in demonstrations should be
> brought
> to justice.
>
> In the last week alone, at least 23 people were killed and 80
> others injured
> in shootings by the state police and the Central Reserve Police
> Force (CRPF)
> paramilitary personnel. Protestors defied curfew regulations, held
> demonstrations and often clashed with the security personnel.
>
> Protests in several places turned violent as demonstrators hurled
> stones at
> the security forces in the last week. Reports about threats to burn
> the
> Quran in the United States increased tensions. Demonstrators
> attacked two
> Christian schools and a hospital, burning one of the schools.
>
> At the same time human rights activists in Srinagar told Amnesty
> International that on a number of occasions the security forces shot
> protestors who were throwing stones at them.
>
> A number of towns in the Kashmir valley including Srinagar have
> been under
> 24 hour curfew for the last five days.
>
> Information about these events has been restricted as a result of
> strict
> enforcement of the curfew regulations. Journalists have informed
> Amnesty
> International that, despite possessing curfew passes issued by the
> authorities, they have been prevented by the police and the
> paramilitary
> personnel from leaving their homes. With journalists unable to
> report on the
> situation, a number of regional television stations and newspapers
> have
> suspended their work.
>
> Any restrictions on the rights to freedom of movement or freedom of
> expression imposed for the protection of public order should only
> be such as
> are necessary and proportionate for that purpose and should be
> consistent
> with the state’s other human rights obligations. In view of the key
> role of
> journalists in facilitating exercise the right to freedom of
> expression,
> which includes the right to receive information. Amnesty
> International
> calls on the Indian authorities to ensure that journalists can
> obtain curfew
> passes and are not harassed or otherwise obstructed while carrying
> out their
> professional functions of reporting and imparting information on
> issues of
> public concern.
>
> More public protests have been announced for 21 September by the
> All Party
> Hurriyat Conference (APHC), one of the largest political formations
> in Jammu
> and Kashmir. This underlines the urgency for the Indian
> authorities to
> instruct the security forces not to use lethal force when dealing with
> demonstrations.
>
> The demonstrations began in late May over the reported extrajudicial
> execution of three young men by the Army at Machil in Baramulla
> district.
> Protests increased after 17-year old Tufail Mattoo was killed by
> security
> forces in Srinagar during a demonstration on 11 June. They have
> intensified
> during repeated cycles of protests and further killings of
> demonstrators by
> security forces.
>
> The demonstrators have raised various concerns about the lack of
> accountability of the security forces; the withdrawal of Armed
> Forces (Jammu
> and Kashmir) Special Powers Act (AFSPA) 1958; the removal of Army
> camps –
> along with an underlying demand of independence for Kashmir.
>
> The AFSPA, which gives special powers of immunity to the security
> forces,
> has been in force in parts of Jammu and Kashmir since 1990. The
> Central
> Government is currently debating the withdrawal of the AFSPA from a
> few of
> its districts.
>
> One of the key demands of the state authorities and protesting
> organizations, namely the withdrawal of the AFSPA, does not appear
> to figure
> in the agenda of the all-party team from Delhi scheduled to visit
> Srinagar
> on 20 September.
>
> Under the AFSPA, soldiers are protected from any legal proceedings
> unless
> specifically sanctioned by the Central Government. This rarely
> happens in
> practice, allowing armed forces personnel to violate human rights with
> impunity.
>
> Ends/
>
>
> --
>
> Working to protect human rights worldwide
>
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>
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Shuddhabrata Sengupta
The Sarai Programme at CSDS
Raqs Media Collective
shuddha at sarai.net
www.sarai.net
www.raqsmediacollective.net
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