[Reader-list] Fwd: [pudr-info] Press Statement: PUDR strongly condemns the unconstitutional and undemocratic act of the Central Government in detaining Anna Hazare and his supporters

Fri Aug 19 14:21:46 IST 2011

Dear Sharan,

For now I will answer a few question you have raised: then why fight it? I
am not fighting. Others, who are fighting, may have several reasons,
ideology, personal vendetta, joining the 'in' thing, hero-worshiping, pop
fad, frustration, anger etc. But since the number of fighters is way below
non-fighters (who are least bothered, unaware or donot care) its an
exception and not the rule. To extend your take in your previous mail, no
mass movement becomes a real mass movement unless the
cause/motivation/passion is universally appealing: eg- identity, freedom or
hunger.

and why, then, is it a tragedy? Its a personal tragic feeling because I am
deeply in love with the non-human parts of our planet. I am pretty
passionate about it infact. And I am sure you would agree that love and
passion are among the basic instincts. Hence the personal eulogy. Although I
very well know that my insignificant emotion won't count at all in the
greater scheme of things.

Hope that these clears the cloud of doubt in your mind about my theory.

regards
Rajkamal

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Sharan ... <sharanlal at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Rajkamal,
>
> If corruption etc. are indeed natural traits, a theory I am not totally
> opposed to accepting, then why fight it? and why, then, is it a tragedy?
>
> Even if you do think it is a tragedy then are you not going against the
> very grain of natural law? We are meant to be like this, where fittest
> survive, the mighty rule, and where the honest stand and watch as their
> co-habitants loot everything that can be looted, leaving the weak, the
> backward, and the impoverished to suffer, languish, and ultimately perish.
> This was the law of the jungle, this is the law of humans and the society
> that we have created. There is nothing new in this. No revolution has
> managed to dislodge this natural streak in us, nothing has changed. It is a
> basic tenet that sticks to us like the colour of our skin. You cannot wash
> it off.
>
> Least effective of all instruments we have seen fail is education, as those
> who loot most today are all educated people. The other is mass movements
> like Annas. It, ultimately, also resorts to violence and coercion as an
> instrument to achieve goals, and hence is another weapon from the same
> armoury that supplies to the other parts of the human jungle. This is nature
> at its best.
>
> But. If we have to change this, my contention is that the change will not
> come through a sms and media fuelled 'revolution', but it will come from the
> power within the self. At the level of the individual.
>
> Sharan
>
>
> On 19 August 2011 13:00, Rajkamal Goswami <rajkamalgoswami at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> dear Sharan,
>>
>> Utopia is a myth and will always remain so. Corruption, promiscuity,
>> violence etc are among the natural traits of human and has been an integral
>> part of the evolutionary process. Honesty, fairness,
>> truthfulness, morality etc are contribution of the human society and are not
>> part of the natural instincts of Homo sapiens. Its what the
>> society internalize in the our minds right from the time we are born. And
>> that's the reason for the eternal conflicts that we face through our lives.
>> Remember we have to resist ourselves from committing 'sins' but we never
>> have to resist ourselves from committing good. Why? Because there is no
>> internal urge to do so.  Sin, good, bad etc are morally laden vocabulary
>> which are creation of the human race m=very much like religion.
>>
>> I like what Naga wrote earlier about capitalism. I think that brilliantly
>> sums up the current scenario. It is but a fact is that corruption, power and
>> war are the collateral costs of capitalism. And since we (human race)
>> introduced it to our planet, who else deserves to bear the maximum burnt,
>> but us? Although it might not be restricted to us alone. And for
>> me that's the greatest tragedy.
>>
>> rajkamal
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Sharan ... <sharanlal at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A wordy effort. To stop the oil you will need to stop the oil wells and
>>> that's not very good for the economy (or Reliance). To kill the wood you
>>> need to fell trees, but that requires axes that require wood... I dont
>>> see
>>> why we are making so much out of this campaign, when the fact of the
>>> matter
>>> is that the very people who are supporting this campaign (you, me) are
>>> steeped in corruption themselves - albeit small corruptions. Ok, Ok, not
>>> all, but most. All it takes is a click of the left button of the mouse to
>>> register your support for the protest, but do all of them, at their
>>> individual level follow a 100% corruption free existence? Do you? Do I?
>>>
>>> I do believe if ALL who have registered their support for Anna simply
>>> turn
>>> away from small corruptions in their day to day lives, it will vanish
>>> from
>>> our country forever. Try it. *It is as difficult to achieve as it is easy
>>> to
>>> click on the mouse or to send an sms. *If we can manage it at the
>>> individual
>>> level, we will not need Anna, or the Parliament. A campaign is an easy
>>> veil
>>> for our personal failings, it gives us an emotional brace, a small lie we
>>> tell ourselves that we are, indeed, against corruption. We may be - do we
>>> practice it?
>>>
>>> Let's leave the wood in the trees...please.
>>>
>>> Sharan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 August 2011 11:37, Nagraj Adve <nagraj.adve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Tara Prakash,
>>> > It's quite easy to take potshots at this corruption campaign, and I
>>> don't
>>> > seek to do that. One can do so on many grounds and levels, depending on
>>> > one's own politics - that it is largely urban and middle class driven;
>>> that
>>> > it is openly supported by the Sangh Parivar orgns; that Anna supports
>>> the
>>> > death penalty for the very corrupt, etc.
>>> > I don't think you can stop the machinery by targetting the oil. It will
>>> > still run, perhaps a little less smoothly (for elites and capital,
>>> which
>>> > itself may be a welcome thing). Overall, that a number of high-profile
>>> > politicians and business people have been jailed in recent months
>>> reflects
>>> > the new found confidence of Indian capital. In capitalism, however, we
>>> have
>>> > created a monster over which we are losing control, if not already lost
>>> > control to a very large degree. Corruption does not address any of the
>>> huge
>>> > challenges it throws up, and will continue doing so with greater chaos
>>> in
>>> > the near future,
>>> > Naga
>>> >
>>> > On 18 August 2011 22:50, Tara Prakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > **
>>> > > True. But how can you kill the wood without cutting the trees? Isn't
>>> it a
>>> > > good strategy to defunct the machine by stopping the oil supply that
>>> > makes
>>> > > it run? It good to hit this corruption?
>>> > > Let it not be the situation at the international stage on global
>>> warming,
>>> > > the vested interests passing the buck to each other. The guy next
>>> door
>>> > says
>>> > > the main corruption is in the parliament and the parliamentarian says
>>> the
>>> > > guy next door needs to change first.
>>> > >
>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > *From:* Nagraj Adve <nagraj.adve at gmail.com>
>>> > > *To:* Tara Prakash <taraprakash at gmail.com>
>>> > > *Cc:* Sarai <reader-list at sarai.net>
>>> > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 18, 2011 2:21 AM
>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: [pudr-info] Press Statement: PUDR
>>> > > strongly condemns the unconstitutional and undemocratic act of the
>>> > Central
>>> > > Government in detaining Anna Hazare and his supporters
>>> > >
>>> > > Tara Prakash, the current focus on corruption - hugely significant as
>>> it
>>> > is
>>> > > - misses the wood for the trees a bit. What's much worse than
>>> corruption
>>> > is
>>> > > conscious govt policy that screws ordinary people's lives - to
>>> mention a
>>> > few
>>> > > examples offhand, what's happening to Indian agriculture; opening out
>>> > mining
>>> > > to large private corporates; the decline in rural extension services,
>>> and
>>> > > rural banking, in Delhi the handing over of large charitable
>>> hospitals to
>>> > > private corporates; the privatization of water, etc.
>>> > > Corruption has a part in some though not all of this, but it merely
>>> the
>>> > oil
>>> > > in the machinery. Far worse is the machinery itself.
>>> > > Naga
>>> > >
>>> > > On 18 August 2011 03:38, Tara Prakash <taraprakash at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> No comments from Shuddhabrata Sen on this? Last time there was an
>>> email
>>> > >> from him on this issue on the list where he sounded deferential to
>>> the
>>> > law
>>> > >> makers and almost contemptuous of Anna Hazare and his supporters.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nagraj Adve" <
>>> nagraj.adve at gmail.com
>>> > >
>>> > >> To: "Sarai" <reader-list at sarai.net>; <chhattisgarh-net at yahoogroups.
>>> > **com<chhattisgarh-net at yahoogroups.com>>;
>>> > >> "Free Binayak Sen" <free-binayaksen at googlegroups.**com<
>>> > free-binayaksen at googlegroups.com>
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 9:38 AM
>>> > >> Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [pudr-info] Press Statement: PUDR
>>> strongly
>>> > >> condemns the unconstitutional and undemocratic act of the Central
>>> > Government
>>> > >> in detaining Anna Hazare and his supporters
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>   ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> > >>> From: PUDR Delhi <pudrdelhi at gmail.com>
>>> > >>> Date: 16 August 2011 18:04
>>> > >>> Subject: [pudr-info] Press Statement: PUDR strongly condemns the
>>> > >>> unconstitutional and undemocratic act of the Central Government in
>>> > >>> detaining
>>> > >>> Anna Hazare and his supporters
>>> > >>> To: pudr-info at pudr.org
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> *PEOPLES UNION FOR DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS*
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> *Press Release*
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> *16th August 2011*
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> ** **
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Peoples Union for Democratic Rights (PUDR) strongly condemns the
>>> > >>> unconstitutional and undemocratic act of the Central Government in
>>> > >>> detaining
>>> > >>> Anna Hazare and his supporters in the early hours of 16th August,
>>> who
>>> > >>> were
>>> > >>> scheduled to arrive at the site of peaceful demonstration. PUDR
>>> > considers
>>> > >>> the conditions laid down by the government such as number of
>>> > participants
>>> > >>> allowed, timing of the demonstrations etc. to be authoritarian.
>>> PUDR is
>>> > >>> concerned that this clampdown on democratic rights represents the
>>> > >>> shrinking
>>> > >>> democratic space in the country where S. 144 of CRPC is used to
>>> prevent
>>> > >>> citizens from lodging their disapproval of government policies and
>>> > >>> actions.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> PUDR is of the opinion that irrespective of politics they espouse,
>>> > >>> individuals and organisations have the legitimate right to mobilise
>>> > >>> people
>>> > >>> and stage protest against the government policies which they
>>> dislike or
>>> > >>> oppose.  In the specific instance of the Lokpal bill there maybe
>>> sharp
>>> > >>> disagreement over the various versions of the bill in the public
>>> domain
>>> > >>> from
>>> > >>> a variety of vantage points. We are mindful of the fact that two
>>> most
>>> > >>> talked
>>> > >>> about bills namely the government version and Anna Hazare’s team
>>> > version
>>> > >>> have been subjected to public criticism for a variety of reasons.
>>> > >>> However,
>>> > >>> for the government to claim that once the matter is placed before
>>> the
>>> > >>> parliament there is no cause for public protest  smacks of
>>> government
>>> > >>> being
>>> > >>> innocent of constitution they have sworn to protect. We wish to
>>> remind
>>> > >>> the
>>> > >>> central government that neither they nor the parliament can take
>>> away
>>> > >>> people’s inalienable rights under the spurious plea that once
>>> people
>>> > >>> elect
>>> > >>> their representatives right to protest by citizens gets curtailed.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> PUDR  is also concerned that it is the Central Government, which
>>>  by
>>> > >>> taking
>>> > >>> recourse to undemocratic means,  is further alienating people and
>>> > >>> compelling
>>> > >>> them, to *either *become mute witness to government-bureaucracy-**
>>> > >>> corporations
>>> > >>> nexus  in loot and plunder of the public funds, or to  take
>>> recourse to
>>> > >>> violent means of protest.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> PUDR, therefore, calls upon people to oppose the government stand
>>> on
>>> > >>> clamping down on legitimate protests and question government's
>>> right to
>>> > >>> decide what is permissible and what is not, so long as protests are
>>> > >>> peaceful.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Paramjeet Singh and Harish Dhawan
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> (Secretaries PUDR)
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> ** **
>>> > >>> ______________________________**___________
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>>> > >>>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rajkamal
>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
Rajkamal