[Reader-list] Fwd: From Fire into the furnace, review of film'Girlfriend'
Geeta Patel
geeta.patel at verizon.net
Thu Jun 17 22:08:44 IST 2004
Dear Rahul:
I think one should begin by doing a study on how straight people became
straight, turned straighter and stayed straight. There is nothing natural in
heterosexuality as a pure form. Because if one begins to analyze the
supports available for straight people, one realizes very quickly that being
straight seems to require a lot of help, regular financial and legal aid
from constitutions, governments, insurance firms -- the list goes on. And
if heterosexuality was so easy to come by and stay in (without any of those
quick glances at beautiful men or women or trannys or hijras or .. that
direct desire away from heterosexuality) why the obsessive need to help it,
ensure it, protect it, hold onto it. Nivedita Menon has a great piece on
this in The Indian Express in January of this year. Janet Halley, a legal
scholar writing in the US, also finds that judicial opinions on queer
matters spend inordinate time on remarking on the instability of
heterosexuality, and on its reproduction. (this is a simplified version of
Halley's work, but sufficient for this task)
In India, the British gave conventional forms of heterosexuality a big push
and lots of legal help beginning in the early 19th century, which I and many
other researchers have come upon when looking at the questions of passing
property onto other people. Of course those issues, of inheritance lineage,
are often looked at as something other than a mandate and push towards
seemingly quotidian forms of heterosexuality.
So, I think that encountering a film like "Girlfriend" should not only make
audiences ask questions about lesbians, but also about their others, the
supposedly straight people that ostensibly live their sexual lives without
question. Hence one could easily ask the question: How many straight people
derive the forms of their sexual desires through, from and with sexual
abuse, including abuse that violated their childhoods? That might form the
nucleus of a truely valuable study.
And as for Pinky Virani's book--one would know that abuse is about the
violent and subtle enactments of power, not about the sexual inclinations of
a person, if one had actually worked with people dealing with sexual or
physical abuse. And conversion is not the important issue when addressing
or taking on abuse-- the construction of the abused person by an abuser is
rarely so simple, i.e. as potential convert. Abusers come in all forms,
ages, shapes and sizes, as do the abused, as does the specifics of the
violence. I tried reading Pinky Virani's book when I was helping design
programs to address abuse and was so irritated by it I was unable to finish
it.
Geeta Patel
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----- Original Message -----
From: "NITIN KARANI" <nkarani at hotmail.com>
To: <Rahul.Asthana at CIBC.com>; <zest_india at yahoo.co.in>
Cc: <reader-list at mail.sarai.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Fwd: From Fire into the furnace,review of
film'Girlfriend'
> mr. asthana,
>
> i have already said it's a subject that needs to be treated seriously,
> instead of repeating myths!
>
> as to the nature of my interaction with other gay people, please do not
try
> to speculate or trivialize it.
>
> nitin
>
>
> From: "Asthana, Rahul" <Rahul.Asthana at CIBC.com>
> To: "'Nitin Karani'" <nkarani at hotmail.com>,shivam <zest_india at yahoo.co.in>
> CC: reader-list at mail.sarai.net
> Subject: RE: [Reader-list] Fwd: From Fire into the furnace, review of
> film'Girlfriend'
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:27:40 -0400
>
> Nitin,
> "in all my 33 years, i haven't
> come across any guy who said he 'became' gay because of sexual abuse."
> Did the question answer session go this way?
> "Q.Do you prefer Coke over Pepsi[Yes/No]""Q.Are you gay because you were
> abused as a child?[Yes/No]"
> I would think neither the question nor the answer are that simple or
> straightforward.It is very difficult for anybody to "say " that they are
> "this" because "that" happened to them when they were young.
> It would need some sort of psychological suggestion(from someone who is
> trained to doing that) and unravelling to get the answer.Another way could
> be extensive data gathering and then trying to find a correlation.This
issue
> deserves more serious analysis.
> Thanks
> Rahul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reader-list-bounces at sarai.net
> [mailto:reader-list-bounces at sarai.net]On Behalf Of Nitin Karani
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:45 PM
> To: shivam
> Cc: reader-list at mail.sarai.net
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: From Fire into the furnace, review of
> film 'Girlfriend'
> Importance: High
>
>
> shivam,
>
> if pinki virani actually wrote that, it's ludicrous! (it sounds like the
> myth about hijras--that they kidnap and castrate children!)
>
> READ MY LIPS: we (gay people) are not on a 'conversion'/proselytization
> agenda!
>
> about the other more common myth that sexual abuse in childhood 'causes'
> homosexuality, it's again just that--a myth! in all my 33 years, i haven't
> come across any guy who said he 'became' gay because of sexual abuse.
agreed
> not everyone would have been honest whether they have faced abuse, but
it's
> safe to say the incidence is low. in all these years of interaction,
on-line
> and offline sexual abuse has never been an issue--and it's not like the
gay
> communities have some kind of collective amnesia about their childhood or
> taboo about the topic! yes, i ahve come across just a couple of guys who
> were abused but even they are clear in their mind that abuse was not the
> reason for 'turning' gay. (i can't claim to speak on behalf of my lesbian
> sisters, but i am sure things are no different for them).
>
> and i remember reading about a survey in what was then the Times's groups
> 'Metropolis on Saturday' about a survey which said that in cases of abuse,
> the perpetrators were more often heterosexuals! (could this be the reason
> for the 'disdain' on the issue??)
>
> I haven't read her book, but i wonder if Ms. Virani actually did any
> research! or like razdan, set out to write on issues they know nothing
about
> and don't care to find out!
>
> best,
> nitin karani
> bombay
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "shivam" <zest_india at yahoo.co.in>
> To: <reader-list at sarai.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: From Fire into the furnace,review of film
> 'Girlfriend'
>
>
> >
> > I agreewith much of what Ms Tejal Shah writes in the
> > Mid Day review, but I don't understand why she has a
> > problem with Girlfriend's character becoming a lesbian
> > because of child sexual abuse. Isn't that possible?
> >
> > I have found that while homosexuality is a very
> > important issue in intellectual circles, I wonder why
> > this disdain and indifference towards child sexual
> > abuse. There's a book called "Bitter Chocolate: Child
> > Sexual Abuse in India" by Pinki Virani in which she
> > writes that homosexuals sometimes abuse children with
> > the purpose of making them homosexuals.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Shivam
> >
> >
> > --- Sappho for Equality <sappho1999 at rediffmail.com>
> > wrote: >
> > >
> > >
> > > Note: Forwarded message attached
> > >
> > > -- Orignal Message --
> > >
> > > From: TS <ts at vsnl.net>
> > > To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> > > Subject: From Fire into the furnace, review of film
> > > 'Girlfriend'
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
> > > From: TS <ts at vsnl.net>
> > > Subject: From Fire into the furnace, review of film
> > > 'Girlfriend'
> > > To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> > >
> > > Dear Friends,
> > > Some of us were unfortunate enough to be present at
> > > the preview screening of film 'Girlfriend' in Bombay
> > > on Thursday, 10th June.
> > > Today, the film has been released nationwide. It is
> > > the worst possible film that has ever been made in
> > > the history of cinema about a 'Lesbian'.
> > > In a country like India where lesbian women exist on
> > > the invisible margins, as criminals without any
> > > rights, doubly oppressed as women and lesbian, not
> > > to mention the layers added by class, caste,
> > > religion and ability, a film like 'Girlfriend' is a
> > > severe blow to the advancement of the human rights
> > > and sexuality rights of all women. We must do
> > > something in the face of such callousness.
> > >
> > > Please do write critical articles and reviews about
> > > the film, hold press conferences, protest rallies,
> > > distribute parchas or anything to 'damage control'.
> > > I have written a small piece below and I urge you to
> > > please circulate this email as widely as possible.
> > > In solidarity,
> > > tejal
> > >
> > >
> > > >From Fire into the furnace
> > > Dear Mr. Karan Razdan (director of Girlfriend),
> > > If the Shiv Sena and the Bajrang Dal go on a rampage
> > > yet again, to protest your film 'Girlfriend', ask
> > > for the film to be banned or sent back to the censor
> > > board, I might even forgive you.
> > >
> > > But I know, that six years after Deepa Mehta's film
> > > 'Fire' was released, the right wing will see no
> > > reason to protest your film because your portrayal
> > > of a lesbian as 'a psychopath, sexually abused, man
> > > hating, murderer and killer' fits just fine into
> > > their hetero-patriarchal agenda of portraying
> > > lesbians & gays as freaks, abnormal and as people
> > > who must die at the end of the film, so they are
> > > aptly punished for their unnatural existence.
> > >
> > > On the out set, it must be stated that the 'Lesbian'
> > > issue is a hot topic; it attracts audiences, creates
> > > a curiosity and definitely impacts the box office
> > > collections. I mean, if you are telling me that you
> > > made this film because you care so much about
> > > lesbians and the issues affecting them, that you
> > > wanted to bring this issue into every Indian
> > > household, surely you mean it as a devastatingly,
> > > nasty joke!
> > >
> > > Your film is a presentation of the worst possible
> > > misnomers (I consciously refrain from using the word
> > > 'stereotype') about anyone who may be attracted to a
> > > person of the same gender. The male, macho but
> > > normal (read heterosexual) hero has no qualms about
> > > playing a hyper-exaggerated, sissy, gay man when he
> > > needs to seduce the simple minded, generous at
> > > heart, 'one-night' lesbian, but essentially, a
> > > reformed, heterosexual girl played by Amrita Arora.
> > > The straight heroine who is being continuously
> > > misled by the lesbian villain must be saved by the
> > > good-boy-hero. In the end, values of heterosexual
> > > love, marriage and 'normal' families must be upheld.
> > > The character of Tanya, acted by Isha Koppikar is
> > > nothing short of a 'lesbian animal' aided as it is
> > > by the background score to help us see her as a
> > > wild, almost cannibalistic man-eating/man-hating
> > > woman who dares to behave like a man, a Sahela (a
> > > mere saheli would be far too sensitive). All this is
> > > of course explained by the simple fact that Tanya
> > > was sexually abused as a child simultaneously
> > > implying that what makes women 'this way' is
> > > possibly, abuse at the hands of men!
> > >
> > > After watching a film like this, it is impossible
> > > for anyone to think of 'women who love women' as
> > > normal human beings with two hands and two feet, who
> > > may be a friend, a sister, a mother, an aunt, a
> > > neighbour, a grand mother and least of all a caring
> > > lover.
> > >
> > > It must be pointed out that under the section 377 of
> > > the Indian Penal Code, gay, lesbian, bisexual and
> > > transgender people are looked upon as/considered
> > > criminals, existing against the order of nature.
> > > Hey! and if you thought it was just about 'those
> > > guys & their lifestyles', let me remind you that
> > > anytime you have non peno-viginal penetrative sex,
> > > you are as much of a criminal and can be put in the
> > > prison for a term extending to 10 years & shall also
> > > be liable to fine.
> > >
> > > Mr. Razdan, the next time you say that you are
> > > taking a neutral position in this film and
> > > portraying the case of just one lesbian, let me
> > > remind you precisely, that the fiction you are
> > > choosing is a cleverly developed and thought out
> > > storyline that carries a clear message. This message
> > > is a dangerous and retrogressive one. It is a
> > > message that endangers the life of any woman who may
> > > look or behave boyish, any woman who chooses to
> > > experiment with her sexuality, and any woman who
> > > asserts her right to different choices including
> > > those women who are good friends and hold hands when
> > > they walk down the street.
> > >
> > > Welcome to the world of blatant hate crimes based on
> > > your sexual and gender orientation!
> > >
> > > As men or women, homosexual or heterosexual, films
> > > like these take us many steps backwards. More than
> > > two decades of work done by Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual
> > > and Transgender groups, feminists groups, human
> > > rights groups, women's groups and progressive
> > > artists groups, is going to suffer as this film is
> > > commercially released in every part of India from
> > > small towns to big cities.
> > >
> > > Every time I hear of another lesbian suicide,
> > > another girl who hanged herself for being teased
> > > about her 'best' friend, another hijra woman raped
> > > in police custody, another woman sent for shock
> > > treatment and aversion therapy to cure her of her
> > > homosexuality, another couple put under house arrest
> > > by their parents when they find out about their
> > > same-sex love, I will think of this film and I will
> > > be reminded of the power that Bollywood wields in
> > > creating a mass consciousness. In this case, it will
> > > be a conscious, articulated, homophobia.
> > >
> > > Thank-you very much Mr. Razdan, but we, as
> > > progressive citizens are not interested in
> > > lip-service. I can assure you of one thing: the
> > > homosexual community in this country would much
> > > rather live in quiet anonymity than be
> > > mis-represented in such a ghastly, contorted
> > > fashion. Even a little bit of research on your part
> > > would have revealed that there are at least three
> > > active lesbian and bisexual women's groups in Bombay
> > > city alone and hundreds of 'women who love women'
> > > leading their lives openly and happily but that's
> > > only possible when one makes a film on a hot issue
> > > (like lesbianism is in India) when you foresee
> > > beyond profits and publicity and see, real lives and
> > > real people who will live the consequences of your
> > > doing.
> > >
> > > It's time that we stopped separating the issues that
> > > films address and their impact on the audience
> > > within a given socio-political context. It is also
> > > high time that we stand in protest against any film
> > > that causes damage to the rights of any minority
> > > groups.
> > >
> > > Tejal Shah
> > >
> > > (The writer is a visual artist and the co-founder,
> > > organiser and curator of Larzish.tremors of a
> > > revolution, International Film festival of Sexuality
> > > & Gender Plurality, India since 2003)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > _________________________________________
> > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and
> > > the city.
> > > Critiques & Collaborations
> > > To subscribe: send an email to
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> > > subject header.
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> > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
> >
> > =====
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> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
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