[Reader-list] The Slimes of India's Patna edition reprints, Danishcartoon

[Aarti]

Dear All,

Interesting debate on.

On the question of speech and action and therefore free speech: I think 
it is important to make a distiction between the two. Just as law 
distinguihes between the intent to act, mens rea and actus reus, to act, 
and only legislates the latter, it is not desirable, in my opinion, to 
curb speech acts, whatever their content, unless and only when speech 
acts can be directly linkled to acts of vioelnce/harm. So therefore to 
return to the old old debate "should racists be given a  platform" I say 
yes because this is a freedom of speech issue and the freedom of speech 
should be limitless.

However if a particular staement or set of staments can be directly 
linked to acts of violence that result from it, then this moves out of 
the realm of speech into a realm of punishable action and for that there 
are safegaurds within legal systems that can be invoked.

Of course the line between the two is fuzzy, and sometimes 
indistinguishable. So what do we do? Well, its a tough call, but the 
only answer, as far I can see, to speech acts are more speech acts.

On the question of sentiment: Often sentiment is invoked precisely to 
justify the worst sorts of inequality and oppression. And of course some 
speech acts are precisely formulated to hurt sentiment. And this is not, 
in my opinion, a bad thing.

Thanks all for this discussion. Hope it continues :)
best
Aarti


arisen silently wrote:

>
> Just a thought: how "free" is free speech if we're to be careful of 
> people's
> "sentiments"?
> -yazad   I found myself having the same debate last night in a bar. 
> The question I suppose reverts to an understanding of freedom and what 
> we mean by it. I found myself wondering if there was a 
> fundamental difference between speech and action when it results in 
> hurting people's sentiments or their state of being? thoughts?   txx   
>    
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aarti" <aarti at sarai.net <mailto:aarti at sarai.net>>
> To: "Koen Martens" < gmc at sonologic.nl <mailto:gmc at sonologic.nl> >
> Cc: < reader-list at sarai.net <mailto:reader-list at sarai.net>>
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 6:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] The Slimes of India's Patna edition reprints,
> Danishcartoon
>
>
> > Dear Koen,
> >
> > If the presence of extremists is your criteria of belonging or not to a
> > list, I would suggest you unsubscribe immediately. I am extremist about
> > the colour purple. I insist everyone who hates purple be extinguished
> > immediately.
> >
> > Long Live Jamuni!
> >
> > best
> > Aarti
> >
> > Koen Martens wrote:
> >
> >>Frankly, the way the muslim extremists worry about a few pitiful
> >>cartoons is beyond me. Get over it already.
> >>
> >>I find what muslim countries do to gay people and people that are
> >>critical about islam much more worrying than what a previously
> >>unknown right-wing Danish newspaper publishes. They are murdered in
> >>the name of allah, now try to defend that and see who smears the
> >>name of the profet more. When islam becomes equivalent to murder in
> >>the eyes of many, shouldn't someone stop and ask 'hey where do they
> >>get the idea'?
> >>
> >>What's more, if i understand correctly there are only a few hundred
> >>of those extremists world wide that go and burn ambassies, so i
> >>don't see why the media must make such a fuss about it.. Extremists
> >>will always do stupid things, making it into a media circus only
> >>validates it in their eyes.
> >>
> >>Besides, wasn't the whole point that the riots are instigated by
> >>arab religious leaders that want to shun away attention from other
> >>matters?
> >>
> >>Now, if this list is a get-together of muslim extremists, please
> >>tell me so i will unsubscribe. I saw some posts here which made me
> >>frown already, but i refrained from replying, but seriously, if
> >>there are any muslim extremists here please let me know, i want
> >>nothing to do with them.
> >>
> >>Best,
> >>
> >>Koen
> >>
> >> reader-list-request at sarai.net 
> <mailto:reader-list-request at sarai.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Subject: [Reader-list] The Slimes of India's Patna edition reprints
> >>> Danish cartoon
> >>>
> >>>This seems to me rather mischievious from the very start: first print
> >>>them and then say sorry. What a convenient alibi, an apology.
> >>>S.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Muslims angry at newspaper over cartoons; editor apologises
> >>>
> >>>http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=3691 
> <http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=3691>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________
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>
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